The Distance Debate

[Summit]

I'm with @Canadan on the ball searching aspect. I get 3 minutes, a hope and a prayer to find a ball in long tall grass. The pros get multiple sets of eyes helping them on any given wayward shot. Maybe if the pros didn't have that help searching, they wouldn't take some of the chances they take.

Pros are playing for millions though and it’s their livelihood vs us amateurs who are not. You also run the risk of having spectators step on your ball and not know it. I don’t see the ball search being an issue.

 

[PuffChippy]

I haven’t listened to the podcast yet but based on the comments so far:

Eating a burger without cheese is about like eating a pizza with no cheese.

The golf overlords are wrong about distance. When people like Spieth can push their drive into the desert crowds and still make birdie then the problem isn’t distance, it’s that inaccuracy isn’t punished.

Agree on the lost ball. Everybody talks about the pros playing courses that are so much harder and that’s surely true, but they also get super nice grass in the fairways, rough that’s cut more than once a year and a team of volunteers chasing down their balls for them. Let them come play some of the goat ranches I frequent where you're hitting off dirt every time in the winter, the edge rough is a freak show of knee height scrub you can barely walk through in the summer, the guy on the adjacent fairway picks up your “lost” ball, the guys behind you are randomly hitting into you, and the marshal is riding your backside because you’re only playing at a 4 hour pace.

 

[baylrballa]

I haven’t listened to the podcast yet but based on the comments so far:

Eating a burger without cheese is about like eating a pizza with no cheese.

The golf overlords are wrong about distance. When people like Spieth can push their drive into the desert crowds and still make birdie then the problem isn’t distance, it’s that inaccuracy isn’t punished.

Agree on the lost ball. Everybody talks about the pros playing courses that are so much harder and that’s surely true, but they also get super nice grass in the fairways, rough that’s cut more than once a year and a team of volunteers chasing down their balls for them. Let them come play some of the goat ranches I frequent where you're hitting off dirt every time in the winter, the edge rough is a freak show of knee height scrub you can barely walk through in the summer, the guy on the adjacent fairway picks up your “lost” ball, the guys behind you are randomly hitting into you, and the marshal is riding your backside because you’re only playing at a 4 hour pace.

I would love to see a pga tour event at some moderately maintained muni. See how they deal with that half dirt, half weed lie.

 

[titleist981]

I haven’t listened to the podcast yet but based on the comments so far:

Eating a burger without cheese is about like eating a pizza with no cheese.

The golf overlords are wrong about distance. When people like Spieth can push their drive into the desert crowds and still make birdie then the problem isn’t distance, it’s that inaccuracy isn’t punished.

Agree on the lost ball. Everybody talks about the pros playing courses that are so much harder and that’s surely true, but they also get super nice grass in the fairways, rough that’s cut more than once a year and a team of volunteers chasing down their balls for them. Let them come play some of the goat ranches I frequent where you're hitting off dirt every time in the winter, the edge rough is a freak show of knee height scrub you can barely walk through in the summer, the guy on the adjacent fairway picks up your “lost” ball, the guys behind you are randomly hitting into you, and the marshal is riding your backside because you’re only playing at a 4 hour pace.

I'd say that something is wrong when you can hit four fairways and lead a golf tournament.

 

[gkeller813]

Pros are playing for millions though and it’s their livelihood vs us amateurs who are not. You also run the risk of having spectators step on your ball and not know it. I don’t see the ball search being an issue.

I don't disagree with your comments, but it does allow them to play the game more aggressively, and thus differently from most of us average golfers. Just another reason that if they roll back distance on tour, I would hate to see it affect all rules and/or equipment. Another argument for bifurcation in my opinion.

 

[Canadan]

Pros are playing for millions though and it’s their livelihood vs us amateurs who are not. You also run the risk of having spectators step on your ball and not know it. I don’t see the ball search being an issue.

Validating why pros get their balls spotted sort of misses the point of the discussion - which is that the experience is different between AMs and Pros, and therefore, is arguably a marginal form of bifurcation (without being bifurcation).

We get three minutes alone or with friendly playing partners. They get little flags instantly.

 

[BigDill]

I am all in on JB’s shot clock idea. In fact, I want one of those TV time out board clocks from football games, the ones that are held by the 20 yard line by the fellas with the giant neon orange oven mitts. I would even be in for the crowd counting down from 10.

 

[Canadan]

I am all in on JB’s shot clock idea. In fact, I want one of those TV time out board clocks from football games, the ones that are held by the 20 yard line by the fellas with the giant neon orange oven mitts. I would even be in for the crowd counting down from 10.

I am willing to trade CK begging golf balls to stop for a shot clock as ASAP as possible.

 

[JB]

I am willing to trade CK begging golf balls to stop for a shot clock as ASAP as possible.

Anybody that wouldn't trade that is not watching/listening to the same golf I am.

 

[Summit]

Validating why pros get their balls spotted sort of misses the point of the discussion - which is that the experience is different between AMs and Pros, and therefore, is arguably a marginal form of bifurcation (without being bifurcation).

We get three minutes alone or with friendly playing partners. They get little flags instantly.

I have zero issues with them having help finding a golf ball. I also highly doubt it makes them more aggressive off the tee, because there still is no guarantee they’ll find it.


I don’t think they need to touch the equipment at all. Leave the game alone where it is. The equipment is good, but it’s only part of the equation. Players are working out more, launch monitors are teaching us more and courses are pieces of art with manicuring.

 

[Canadan]

I have zero issues with them having help finding a golf ball. I also highly doubt it makes them more aggressive off the tee, because there still is no guarantee they’ll find it.


I don’t think they need to touch the equipment at all. Leave the game alone where it is. The equipment is good, but it’s only part of the equation. Players are working out more, launch monitors are teaching us more and courses are pieces of art with manicuring.

I also don't have a problem with them getting their balls found for them. Imagine the pace of play if they didn't!!

I just find it hilarious when people freak on bifurcation - because their experience is already wildly different than the average golfer.

 

[Canadan]

Anybody that wouldn't trade that is not watching/listening to the same golf I am.

probably cheaper, too haha

 

[Summit]

I also don't have a problem with them getting their balls found for them. Imagine the pace of play if they didn't!!

I just find it hilarious when people freak on bifurcation - because their experience is already wildly different than the average golfer.

Yeah, I just say we don’t touch the game right now. Let it evolve as it is. Heck, let’s add some things in like giving them rangefinders.

 

[Parrot]

I've been wanting shot clocks since the European Tour event with them.

I like the rangefinder idea. I'd like to see the Tour prohibit yardage and green books and go with wide-toothed rakes in bunkers.

 

[baylrballa]

I've been wanting shot clocks since the European Tour event with them.

I like the rangefinder idea. I'd like to see the Tour prohibit yardage and green books and go with wide-toothed rakes in bunkers.

Love all of that.

 

[BigDill]

I've been wanting shot clocks since the European Tour event with them.

I like the rangefinder idea. I'd like to see the Tour prohibit yardage and green books and go with wide-toothed rakes in bunkers.

I would love to see DJ have trouble trying to lock in a flag at 280 yards.

"Wait, what button do I press? Now its says 'mode' at the top and is giving me some weird yardage in 'M's"

"OK now there are two numbers, which one do I pick?"

"It's 347 yards.....to that hottie standing next to the green on 8"

 

[Parrot]

I would love to see DJ have trouble trying to lock in a flag at 280 yards.

"Wait, what button do I press? Now its says 'mode' at the top and is giving me some weird yardage in 'M's"

"OK now there are two numbers, which one do I pick?"

"It's 347 yards.....to that hottie standing next to the green on 8"

A fella has to rock how he rolls!

 

[Scorp]

@Canadan does it seem weird to refer to yourself in the 3rd person when you're writing the description for the show?

 

[PKorf]

Finally found some busy work for me to get to listen to this while doing. Great listen.

Also, fwiw, Dan........golf courses and private clubs are literally there to make money . They provide you with a push cart if youd like one at your course....you just want to bring your own and then not pay? Just trying to weed through the opinions. Most courses charge a trail fee anyways right? So is it just because they want o make a few extra bucks on the push cart mafia?

 

[baylrballa]

Finally found some busy work for me to get to listen to this while doing. Great listen.

Also, fwiw, Dan........golf courses and private clubs are literally there to make money . They provide you with a push cart if youd like one at your course....you just want to bring your own and then not pay? Just trying to weed through the opinions. Most courses charge a trail fee anyways right? So is it just because they want o make a few extra bucks on the push cart mafia?

A private club charging for carts is kinda weird. A private club charging for push carts is lols.
Id put it up there with charging for a handful of tees on the way out the clubhouse.

 

[Canadan]

Finally found some busy work for me to get to listen to this while doing. Great listen.

Also, fwiw, Dan........golf courses and private clubs are literally there to make money . They provide you with a push cart if youd like one at your course....you just want to bring your own and then not pay? Just trying to weed through the opinions. Most courses charge a trail fee anyways right? So is it just because they want o make a few extra bucks on the push cart mafia?

1- duh
2- I offered a trail free that would more than likely help them come close to breaking even while opening the door to sales in the proshop for carts, as well as the most basic and/or obvious part of ACTUALLY ACCOMMODATING THEIR MEMBERS.

In normal years, you can't wait before 2pm on weekends. That will likely go back after the rona crazy finishes, but I think they are obligated right now to make it optional by the state. They are making plenty of money off their golfers.

 

[Canadan]

A private club charging for carts is kinda weird. A private club charging for push carts is lols.
Id put it up there with charging for a handful of tees on the way out the clubhouse.

22 bucks for a riding cart - and honestly it doesn't bother me at all.

I think charging a trail free for a push cart is stupid. May as well charge me a fee for using a golf bag.

 

[PKorf]

A private club charging for carts is kinda weird. A private club charging for push carts is lols.
Id put it up there with charging for a handful of tees on the way out the clubhouse.

I can honestly tell you that every single private golf course that ive been a member of in Ohio charges a cart fee. That includes places like Firestone CC. $32/rd

 

[JB]

I can honestly tell you that every single private golf course that ive been a member of in Ohio charges a cart fee. That includes places like Firestone CC. $32/rd

I don’t think I have ever been to a private club that doesn’t charge for carts. Most offer a trail fee to make it easier.

 

[BigMac]

I can honestly tell you that every single private golf course that ive been a member of in Ohio charges a cart fee. That includes places like Firestone CC. $32/rd

My club (semi-private) charges us an extra $50/month on our dues to use their carts. I can live with that - in the long run it’s a lot cheaper than owning/maintaining my own personal cart. As much as I play, it comes out to just over $3 per round.