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Can Courses Handle the Golfer Influx Long-term?

McLovin said:
i agree that it would probably take some re-routing, and maybe a little infrastructure to offer cart paths for the 6-hole people, maybe more marshalls, etc. i do think it has legs though.

i would agree with the bolded, but mostly as it pertains to enthusiasts like we are. but i think the pace of life for many people who are new to the game is not conducive to the length of time 18 holes takes, let alone how physically taxing that can be for someone just picking up the game.

i think about my wife. she and i started playing when we first got married. she took lessons and could hit the ball. i took her to play twice, both times 18 hole rounds, both times on weekends. it was too long and too hard for her. she said she wanted to play a handful of holes, then go sit outside and drink wine and talk. i think the 6-hole round would be perfect for that.
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Might be time to revive that thread, because that is exactly the goal. Some simple re-routing means nobody loses their 18 hole rounds...
 
I know my home course can't, it was such a huge problem in 2020 with really no option to fix. And I don't expect the demand to reduce any time soon.

I think some things will be tried from course to course that may help a little bit, but if these courses continue to see the doubling or maybe even tripling of what they saw last year, even at a maintained level, eventually the service level, infrastructure, availability of tee times and especially pace of play is going to be an issue.
 
I can see a larger market for casual golfing stuff in the future (e.g. TopGolf) for those that want to get out but don't want to commit to the rigors of the course. When they were open, our courses have been ok. The place we go to get lessons has been packed! Just before covid hit last year, they ran a special for 3 yr memberships for $300 with no fees if you walked and 1/2 cart fees. They are beyond packed. I'm actually a little worried they are losing the ready to pay players and may run into financial troubles even through they are flooded with players.
 
I don’t think this will be a problem for the long term. It was the perfect storm and it resulted in people playing more golf that would otherwise be doing plenty of other things. I think golf had the opportunity to really grab a bunch more people and pull them in for the betterment of the game and I think they really whiffed at it. Sales are way up now but I question the sustainability of those numbers because first time buyers aren’t likely going to be purchasing again for a while (if they even stick with it long term). And worst of all, when there was an influx of new people, the powers that be are worried about the game going back to its old days and making it harder.

I don’t think 2020 sets a new course for golf and I don’t think the traffic and tee sheet issues remain by 2022.
 
McLovin said:
what i hope we see is a rethinking of what a round of golf is. i think the generation discovering the game doesn’t want to spend 5 hours on the course. i would love to see more options for 3 6-hole rounds. im not smart enough to figure out how to strategically send groups off different starting holes to keep pace flowing, but i think it could be done.
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I think that this could merit some discussion. A round of golf does not have to be 18 or even 9 holes. In addition to logistical issues regarding how to keep things moving smoothly, there are time and money concerns for the players and the courses.

Definitely agree about the perceived concern regarding the length of the time it may take to complete a round of golf.

I belong to a private club and frequently during the summer at night, I play 6 hole rounds. The course is routed so that I can play 1-3 and 10-12 and not have a long walk when I finish.
 
I would say no long term, most of the public courses I play saw too much play on them and this upset many golfers. The courses steadily got worse in conditions as their normal groundskeepers couldn’t keep up with the demand. For courses to hire more groundskeeping and to spread out the golfers they would need to raise pricing. That could decrease the demand. It’s a difficult decision by any public course long term.

However, as we move into the new normal and eventually back to normal a year or so from now, I expect the demand in golf to decrease as other options of time become more available again. The disposable income that has moved to golf with fluctuate back to other areas like vacations, movie theaters, etc.
 
JB said:
Rounds were up 12% and that includes a period of time where golf was unable to be played due to restrictions in many states.
While younger golfers did participate more, golf memberships rose dramatically as well, so I am not sure it returns to the general sense of normal in the coming months or year.

To give you an example, we have spoken to a huge amount of higher end course planning people as we plan our THP Experiences for the year and their bookings for future events is already close to double what was done in 2019, before any restrictions were in place.

Between equipment sales skyrocketing, course demand being what it is and time starting to flow back to normalcy, something has to give of course, but I am not sure golf takes a backseat as much people thinks it will.
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Are the memberships that went up year to year memberships or life long memberships with very large initiation fees? I know local places that do the former gaining a lot but the later is a bit more contained because it’s a large commitment.
 
depends on the area. I get the courses are trying to make up for lost income last year (i know tee sheets were booming but there was a time where many courses couldn't open fully for a number of reasons), but i don't think they will be able to keep it up. Maintenance will need to be picked up or course will suffer from the traffic.

My biggest issue is that local courses here have slightly increased prices during especially now during the off peak season.... kind of irritating considering we already have a pretty high rates anyhow andddd it doesn't seem to be going back into the courses from what I can see. A few are doing good and putting money back into the course (cart paths/bunkers/drainage/carts/etc) but some are just upping price because they can
 
Molten said:
Are the memberships that went up year to year memberships or life long memberships with very large initiation fees? I know local places that do the former gaining a lot but the later is a bit more contained because it’s a large commitment.
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I don't have exact numbers but in large golfing states, based on reports we have seen it's a pretty good mix.
 
When Massachusetts first opened golf for play (the last state to do so), 15 minute tee time spacing was required. What was nice about that is you didn't see anyone in front of you or anyone behind you. Once it returned back to 8 minutes the pace of play really slowed down. I never saw the course so crowded during the week.
 
McLovin said:
i agree that it would probably take some re-routing, and maybe a little infrastructure to offer cart paths for the 6-hole people, maybe more marshalls, etc. i do think it has legs though.

i would agree with the bolded, but mostly as it pertains to enthusiasts like we are. but i think the pace of life for many people who are new to the game is not conducive to the length of time 18 holes takes, let alone how physically taxing that can be for someone just picking up the game.

i think about my wife. she and i started playing when we first got married. she took lessons and could hit the ball. i took her to play twice, both times 18 hole rounds, both times on weekends. it was too long and too hard for her. she said she wanted to play a handful of holes, then go sit outside and drink wine and talk. i think the 6-hole round would be perfect for that.
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I guess I look around at our local par 3 courses (where I originally learned the game) and wonder why they aren't packed, when all the full size courses are. Heck, I've been playing them since I can't get a tee time at my regular courses.

I think the vast majority of golfers want more golf, not less. But as is always the case- if enough people want shorter courses it will definitely happen.
 
chile said:
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Seriously. We're right on the AZ/CA border (I can literally stand in my front yard and see CA across the lake), and a lot of Californians own summer lake houses here. When everything was shut down over there, they came over here in droves. Last spring, in the months when our boat launch ramps are usually pretty empty, they were crowded like they usually are on summer weekends, and the same with the golf courses (and grocery stores, and restaurants, and everything else). You'd drive around town and see more CA license plates than you did AZ plates. Most everything was open here, so they could do all the things they couldn't do in CA.

(I was born and raised in CA, lived there for 48 years before I escaped, so I get a free pass on criticizing it! :ROFLMAO: )
 
I couldn't always get a time on my preferred course on short notice, but I was always able to get a time on short notice in the late PM, and by short, I mean 40-60 minutes for a course six minutes away.

Our courses stretched out tee time interval. Reversing that will allow more players. I also think most of our course here are not fully loaded, so they have room. If they fill up, they will raise prices until supply meets demand.
 
Interesting topic. Last year my home course was closed for a month, then had walking only for three weeks. When they fully opened the tee sheet was full for the rest of the season. I know many of those players were out there because there was there were no other entertainment options open. Course management is planning on this same kind of play in 2021. They raised membership fees and daily rates and are going to require a credit card number to book a tee time.

With covid rates coming down and the vaccination program working our state government is starting to lift or modify some of the corona virus restrictions. If entertainment options reopen, I cannot see all these people coming back to golf. It is too time consuming and expensive.
 
I’m very nervous about this in San Diego. Tee times are very scarce this year and it’s hard to imagine new public courses being built here. There’s not a lot of available land and there is no way a golf course is the best return for investors. We’re actually losing one of our only central public’s for housing development next year.

I’m a big proponent of growing the game but solving this piece is difficult. I really hope there is a solution out there.
 
One of my local tracks is considering raising rates to curtail play a little. I’d rather they go to 15 minute times and get a ranger.
It already has a problem with slow play, as it is a difficult course if you’ve never played it before. It’s brutal for new golfers, who could easily lose a dozen balls in a round.
Lately 5hr round are the norm on weekdays if you’re not out before 9:30
 
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blugold said:
Fast golfers need to be thankful for full tee sheets and embrace being outside for a four hours.
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If courses do their part to educate and keep players on 4 hour pace, then I think the courses can handle the influx of golfers. A brand new course is expensive and very demanding on resources. You don't want to have a boom and bust in the construction business.
 
chile said:
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‘
When I lived in CA I knew better than to ever say I was from CA when visiting most states, especially ones such as Arizona, Montana, Idaho, and Oregon. I was always from Minnesota or Wisconsin, lol.
 
The one we live on can't, it wasn't designed for 200+ rounds a day. It's too difficult off the tee and it just bogs down. They have the range space to support it. But they want to be the cheapest in DFW and are working on getting there. Conditions could be better but they'd have to close for a day a week to get the maintenance crews out taking care of things.
I think it'll slack off, slowly, when folks are back at work, kids are in school & you can do other things.
 
Snowman said:
Seriously. We're right on the AZ/CA border (I can literally stand in my front yard and see CA across the lake), and a lot of Californians own summer lake houses here. When everything was shut down over there, they came over here in droves. Last spring, in the months when our boat launch ramps are usually pretty empty, they were crowded like they usually are on summer weekends, and the same with the golf courses (and grocery stores, and restaurants, and everything else). You'd drive around town and see more CA license plates than you did AZ plates. Most everything was open here, so they could do all the things they couldn't do in CA.

(I was born and raised in CA, lived there for 48 years before I escaped, so I get a free pass on criticizing it! :ROFLMAO: )
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tahoebum said:
‘
When I lived in CA I knew better than to ever say I was from CA when visiting most states, especially ones such as Arizona, Montana, Idaho, and Oregon. I was always from Minnesota or Wisconsin, lol.
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the sad thing is i'm not FROM CA but i live here :cry::LOL:
 
It will be interesting to see what will happen when the golf tourists come back. I'm sure our local's rates will go up, especially at the better courses that are in demand by the golf tourists. Golf vacations are expensive and I have a feeling for a lot of people disposable income may be tight for awhile.
 
McLovin said:
i think the generation discovering the game doesn’t want to spend 5 hours on the course.
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Based on what? Curious minds want to know.
 
I think we will see a shift to more play at upscale courses that require a bit of a drive. Currently with all the restrictions I'm not driving to a resort course that takes 90 minutes but the facilities are very limited. No snack bar, place for a beer, etc. I'm playing 90 percent of my rounds local.
 
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