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Can’t Stop Over The Top

DataDude said:
Now you have me excited instead of dreadful.
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I think that's called going from steep on the backswing to shallowing out the downswing. There are more elements to it than what he explained but it's a good start. If you get that lead elbow off your chest going back, it's trouble - just hinge and stay steep turning. The shallowing at the top is the "under."

Good luck.
 
DataDude said:
Now you have me excited instead of dreadful.
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For me it was just keeping an open mind not having used them before. At first I was talking to myself out loud “what the heck are you doing here” but when I got a few in a row with the contact, trajectory and feeling being good I turned from skeptical to giddy pretty quick.

hopefully you get the feeling back and get great results my man. Can’t wait to hear about it!
 
Desmond said:
I think that's called going from steep on the backswing to shallowing out the downswing. There are more elements to it than what he explained but it's a good start. If you get that lead elbow off your chest going back, it's trouble - just hinge and stay steep turning. The shallowing at the top is the "under."

Good luck.
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I am exactly opposite from right. I am shallow back, steep down. After 1 lesson I think I am good going back now, but still too steep down.
 
DataDude said:
I am exactly opposite from right. I am shallow back, steep down. After 1 lesson I think I am good going back now, but still too steep down.
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The shallow is subtle.

I have found if you use your arms to start the downswing, you are steep

If you use your lower body, and save the arms for last, you have a tendency to shallow. If not, you can flatten the club as you transition actively instead of passively. I once shallowed actively and my instructor said, you don't need to ... you come in shallow already. George Gankas has a bunch of vids on shallowing but he goes for the whole bottle of aspirin when you might need a tablet.
 
I am mostly but not fully cured of this sickness. yes, a pull and hook are an ugly combination.

My fix is simple (right hand golfer). My left shoulder moves a firm left arm back very slowly. the left grip pressue remains in control to the top and after the top. The rest takes care of itself somehow. If I feel any right hand actively getting involved I am about 3 swings from a pull hook. If I let it go on another 5 swings then the fatty is very near.
 
In the backswing the right arm/elbow is above the left for the righthand golfer. About halfway in the backswing both arms are level with the ground. on the downswing the right arm/elbow is below the left arm and tucked to the right hip right up to impact. from the down the line view the arms should have a gap with the right elbow close to the right hip. If you get into that position there's no coming over the top.....perfect position to hit from the inside, about seven on the clock face.
 
This is my swing flaw as well. With irons 2 different drills or thoughts help me. The first is to simply feel a "pause" at the top of the downswing and really feel the right elbow in my ribs when starting the downswing. This one really helps me to hit down on it and keep the elbow in. The other is putting a headcover slightly behind and outside my ball and another ahead and inside the ball. This one forces the inside out swing path. I tend to notice with this one that sometimes my issue isn't from coming outside but instead a "inside to inside" swing where I flip my left shoulder out of the shot. The second drill helps more with longer irons and the first helps with mid to short irons for some reason. With a drive the only thing that helps is trying to hit it to rights field by hitting the inside of the golf ball. When I really struggle I have to almost feel like I'm following through to right field and NOT trying to turn the ball over at all. Otherwise I still flip the wrists and hips and hit a rocket pull hook.
 
Of course, agreeing with the other posters, if you have an instructor then that's where to go for advice. Keep it focused and simple. But of course I'll give you my $.02, because golf advice is as much about the person who gives it as it is about the person to whom it's directed. :D

How do you know you're going OTT? Did you video yourself? If not then do so and do it in slo-mo and examine the transition from up to down-swing. With me, the FIRST move is a shoulder lunge towards the ball, trying to hit it with the club. But if your first move is with the lower body it's very difficult to come OTT (in my lay opinion). I suppose it can happen, but you tend to use the muscles that feel the strongest (have the best angles) and if your first move is from the top then it's just natural to use your upper arm/shoulders. If you rotate (some advocate shift) the lower body first then the club drops and those shoulder/arm muscles have less favorable angles, the advantage to using them to throw the club lessens.

Again, if you haven't, video yourself and see what your first move tendency is: Throw from the top or lower body?
 
I got a headache reading all these tips. Not that they weren't good but just that there were so many different ones.

For me, I can swing on plane when I swing 80% but when I do that, the ball doesn't go far enough. (I'll hit a 3 iron 150 yards.) As soon as I add any swing force it's over the top. The OOT shots don't look bad, but there is no penetration and consequently no distance. (And huge emotional deflation.)

I've done most of the suggestions in this thread and more. So many of the suggestions create such an unusual feeling it's hard to enjoy the game swinging that way.

Maybe there's a miracle cure out there. Short of that, there's no hope.
 
Wow 38 pages!

I got the PlaneMate training aid this year and it's really helped me fix my OTT move, I've learned/learning the correct feel.

Its just a tool and you have to put in the work but for me it been well worth the money. I got mine used from another THPer.

You can make a cheap one with tension band. FYI

Peace and Goodluck and don't give up. If I can get better then You can get better!

I'm not affiliated with tour striker just a fan.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk
 
chefkritter said:
Title pretty much says it all, got to play 3 times this past week and granted it’s off 3 weeks of not touching a club but I can not stop tipping the club when I start the downswing and come over the top. Release it and it’s a pull draw that goes forever, don’t release it and it’s steep and way off the toe and to the right. So frustrating and can’t fix on course.
Headed to the range some this week to work on, any particular drills that others have worked on with this as well?
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Monte Scheinblum
No Turn Cast
Rebelliongolf.com
Pay video
It will show you how to think about the first move down.
 
Wow, a 3-iron 150 yards, I'd kill to be able to hit any iron 150 yards, and I'm not being sarcastic, believe me. Just pointing out the depths of my despair.

I think the crux of your problem is right there, though: What do you mean by "add any swing force"? HOW do you try to do that? My guess is with your shoulders and arms. My vote is to go look at Paul Wilson's YT videos. While not the ultimate solution for most (it is for some) it's a way of training your body to add necessary hip/pelvis motion.

Of course, I'm just a random stranger on the net; as others have pointed out, get a good pro's advice (granted, it may be just as hard to find a good pro as it is to find a good swing). Good Luck.
 
This is me. Before and After "No Turn Cast"
Shots on the left are from January 2020.
I started No Turn Cast when it was released in October 2020.
Shots on the right were taken January 2021.



1622740671475.png
 
games said:
This is me. Before and After "No Turn Cast"
Shots on the left are from January 2020.
I started No Turn Cast when it was released in October 2020.
Shots on the right were taken January 2021.



View attachment 9011149
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Well, it's certainly strange enough to try. (And new to me.) I'll give it a shot. Like one of the commenters on the below video said: "Set the wrist and throw it underhand." Simple enough. Thanks.

 
IShouldBeMuchBetterByNow said:
Well, it's certainly strange enough to try. (And new to me.) I'll give it a shot. Like one of the commenters on the below video said: "Set the wrist and throw it underhand." Simple enough. Thanks.

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The OTT "cure" for me wasn't in the video you linked (which is still darn good in its own right).
The video you linked spawned a pay video from Monte released last October.
More info here:

Golf Instructional Videos - Rebellion Golf with Monte Scheinblum

Golf instructional videos featuring golf instructor Monte Scheinblum. Content organized by chapter, available instantly on all devices. Change your game and start saving strokes with these well-reviewed video series.
rebelliongolf.com rebelliongolf.com
 
blugold said:
Make sure your stance, grip, and alignment are fine, then fix your back swing.
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As a chronic slicer (the first 15 or so years of playing) I would concur with this 1000%. Went to get lessons and first 8 sessions were about fixing my grip/stance/alignment. Next 10 sessions have been on backswing, about half way through that and I was finally in a decent window to hit the ball relatively straight. Still going through it and almost all of the work is on backswing.

This might not be the case for all, but I bet it is common for most.
 
One important feeling I had to overcome when I changed my swing from a flip release to a hold-off release was the uncomfortable feelings of the backswing,especially at the top and then holding that uncomfortable feeling well into the downswing. I have to keep reminding myself (even after 10 years of the changeover) that a successful outcome depends on those uncomfortable feelings. They get easier over time and become automatic but the uncomfortable feelings are still there.
Of course release patterns are married to the pivot. A flip release comes with a stall pivot while a hold off release requires a pivot and turn action.
I played to a low handicap with my old golf swing. The problem with this method was that I needed to practice nearly everyday to maintain the timing of the flip release. Also the stall pivot was cause of back pain that became a normal part of my life.
Now I am coming up to 13 years older since I committed to the changes and I don't need to practice anywhere near as much to maintain my game and I am pain free. But best of all is that I now know how it all works and know what to do when I stray off the path.
The point I was trying to make when when I started writing this reply is that the correct positions during the backswing and downswing are quite uncomfortable for most of us. Learn to live with it.
 
Thanks for the backswing check idea. I’ve been struggling with hosel rockets lately- really bad. I know that they relate to my OTT swing and the more I tried to bring the club inside, the worse it got. I needed to visualize keeping the club head outside my hands as only my hands swung inside. Just hit a bunch of wedges in the soccer field across the street from my house- not one hosel rocket. I was pulling the ball a bit, but trying to finish my swing at second base seemed to help with that issue.
Thanks! @GoldenBuff
 
games said:
The OTT "cure" for me wasn't in the video you linked (which is still darn good in its own right).
The video you linked spawned a pay video from Monte released last October.
More info here:

Golf Instructional Videos - Rebellion Golf with Monte Scheinblum

Golf instructional videos featuring golf instructor Monte Scheinblum. Content organized by chapter, available instantly on all devices. Change your game and start saving strokes with these well-reviewed video series.
rebelliongolf.com rebelliongolf.com
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Thanks a lot. I'll see how it goes with the original video and then maybe down the road pick up the paid. :)
 
games said:
At the top it's just "SEND IT!" With irons, I "snap" the wrists as in a true casting motion, but need to be less violent with driver. My goal is to get my wrist / hand / arm drop to beat my body turn.
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And on the way back? Is it as simple as bend your wrist? Or do you think of bending them flat?
 
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