you can't within your parameters...he started it at 25-26
Yup. At 25 you can see the weight shift and a slight squat, then he begins his pivot.
 
The title of this thread is deceptive. I feel like I clicked on a Facebook link that I wanted to read and end up in something I don’t want to read but can’t look away.
 
I personally dont understand how someone can play golf at a high level and have Zero swing thoughts. I find it impossible to believe. Any deliberate action falls into the category of thinking….
 
I personally dont understand how someone can play golf at a high level and have Zero swing thoughts. I find it impossible to believe. Any deliberate action falls into the category of thinking….
When I am playing well, I guess I have swing thoughts, but they are not at all mechanical. When I struggle, my thoughts are on mechanics and it is a disaster. When my thoughts are only on balance, tempo, target I can play pretty well. But inevitably, my mechanics get out of whack and I go for a lesson and have to start thinking about mechanics again until I get them down. Gold is hard
 
When I am playing well, I guess I have swing thoughts, but they are not at all mechanical.
This is why I've been seeking what people mean by "swing thoughts."

When I struggle, my thoughts are on mechanics and it is a disaster.
Does that ever look familiar, too
lol.gif
 
I personally dont understand how someone can play golf at a high level and have Zero swing thoughts. I find it impossible to believe. Any deliberate action falls into the category of thinking….
I don't think anyone has zero thoughts. IMO, we all have thoughts, the question is really what are your thoughts during the golf swing? My guess is some are thinking about the position of the clubhead to the ball, or the target area, or their swing path, or a number of things. Also it depends at what point in time of the swing what one is thinking.
 
This is why I've been seeking what people mean by "swing thoughts."

Swing thoughts....as probably applies to OP is what you're thinking as you stand over the ball at address and during the down swing(o_O) or maybe during practice.
Then there might be Swing Thoughts....as in thoughts on the swing by I B Thepro.
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I don't think anyone has zero thoughts. IMO, we all have thoughts, the question is really what are your thoughts during the golf swing? My guess is some are thinking about the position of the clubhead to the ball, or the target area, or their swing path, or a number of things. Also it depends at what point in time of the swing what one is thinking.

Either way, I doubt most guys swing without at least one thought related to their tempo, backswing etc. i classify those as swing thoughts. Semantics here perhaps…
 
When I am playing well, I guess I have swing thoughts, but they are not at all mechanical. When I struggle, my thoughts are on mechanics and it is a disaster. When my thoughts are only on balance, tempo, target I can play pretty well. But inevitably, my mechanics get out of whack and I go for a lesson and have to start thinking about mechanics again until I get them down. Gold is hard

I would consider those swing thoughts: i.e. slow backswing, swing easy….
At the end of the day, I guess we all need to figure out what works for us and I think swing thoughts (mechanical or otherwise) can absolutely serve a purpose.
I do think that having more than one or two can be detrimental.
 
I'm still not certain what we're talking about when we talk about "swing thoughts." I have pre-swing thoughts, but, once that club starts to come back I'm not consciously thinking about my swing anymore.
I am. As I start the takeaway, I have to be thinking about preventing a hip slide and there's a feel I use for that. At the top, I have to consciously be thinking about finishing the top of the back swing or at least not rushing the transition. Throughout most of the swing, I try to be conscious of tempo. I'm not thinking of much just before and at impact however.
 
What I think works for me is compartmentalizing my thoughts in sequence and a full routine. Like a checklist leading into the swing, with the swing itself only having one or two key points.
My typical pre-shot/swing routine looks something like this (after having chosen the club and shot I’m trying to hit):
Walk into the ball gripping the club in the air and setting my left hand in position. Aim club at target, set feet. Breath out for relaxation while staring at the target. Adjust my feels for the shot I’m imagining and ensure posture feels good. Then I kick in my swing thoughts and hit the shot.
Most of this has been ingrained through repetition at the range, so it isn’t necessarily a fully conscious effort.
The swing thought or two are typically an effort though and 99% of the time they are related to my backswing and the timing of it.

Perhaps the real key here is that good practice (repetition) will help your checklist stay simple and not get overly complex.

Maybe truly getting in the zone allows all of this to just happen naturally. If so, perhaps I’ve just never entered this nether-realm of golf divinity.

I’m not disagreeing with anyone here, guess I’m just saying that some of us need to play swing a bit more than we’d like and that isn’t necessarily a bad thing to me.
 
Swing thoughts can be categorised in pre-swing, during the swing and post swing.
Pre-swing is problem solving and making decisions.
During the swing is execution and target related.
Post swing is review and feedback.
 
"Don't cock it up". Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
 
The entire swing on average takes approx. 9/10 seconds ( 900 milliseconds) Mats ( Matsuyama excluded ) . The average players DS only consumes 2/10 seconds ( 200 milliseconds ) . Since the human brain sends and receives messages on a delayed basis ( 100 milliseconds ) could a player swinging a shaft at 120 mph have 2-3-4 thoughts during 2/10 seconds ? Could he or she alter or change their plan during that time ?
The brain can only sort out and perform one (1) task in such a fleeting moment of time . If this is factual it becomes obvious to any intelligent human that this entire upcoming action ( golf DS ) must be preprogrammed before we lift the shaft back or — ???
Only a superhuman could do otherwise. I haven’t seen one of those yet !
You will only have time for one swing thought- better make sure it is the correct one !
 
you can't within your parameters...he started it at 25-26



unless you're talking about this one:



it starts at 20-21

R- question for you —- is TW pulling his lever down with the BUTTS of his hands ?
 
R- question for you —- is TW pulling his lever down with the BUTTS of his hands ?
same question of your thinking.
Please don't be so asinine.

aren't you the one that said you can't move your hips and shoulders in different directions?
since the video clearly shows that he does, it is an indication of a/the start of a separate part of the swing.
So, what shall we call it?
The transition, perhaps?
With that in mind, what starts the swing?
Let's see; a swing thought? A waggle? A forward press? The take away?
Since everything I have ever read the take away is considered part of the swing.
Coaches/pro profess either a one piece take away for the most part.
They speak of it with importance.
The back swing is considered part of the swing.
Coaches/pros show show back swings and the position at the top all of the time.
With all of that said, the transition is considered the start of the down swing.
See definition of transition: change of state basically.
The hips starting either a squat or a counter rotation is considered a/the start of the down swing(transition).
(disclaimer; the down swing doesn't HAVE to start with either of these, but I haven't heard one single coach/pro say otherwise)
So, that leaves you! YOU.

BTW; if you rotate your hips to start the down swing, yes your butt(actually pelvis) with pull the hands down via the torso following along with it.
 
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The entire swing on average takes approx. 9/10 seconds ( 900 milliseconds) Mats ( Matsuyama excluded ) . The average players DS only consumes 2/10 seconds ( 200 milliseconds ) . Since the human brain sends and receives messages on a delayed basis ( 100 milliseconds ) could a player swinging a shaft at 120 mph have 2-3-4 thoughts during 2/10 seconds ? Could he or she alter or change their plan during that time ?
The brain can only sort out and perform one (1) task in such a fleeting moment of time . If this is factual it becomes obvious to any intelligent human that this entire upcoming action ( golf DS ) must be preprogrammed before we lift the shaft back or — ???
Only a superhuman could do otherwise. I haven’t seen one of those yet !
You will only have time for one swing thought- better make sure it is the correct one !
every thing about myelineation has flown over your head.
evidently, a golfer doesn't have time for one swing thought, according to you. You claim it must be pre-programmed.
 
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same question of your thinking.
Please don't be so asinine.

aren't you the one that said you can't move your hips and shoulders in different directions?
since the video clearly shows that he does, it is an indication of a/the start of a separate part of the swing.
So, what shall we call it?
The transition, perhaps?
With that in mind, what starts the swing?
Let's see; a swing thought? A waggle? A forward press? The take away?
Since everything I have ever read the take away is considered part of the swing.
Coaches/pro profess either a one piece take away for the most part.
They speak of it with importance.
The back swing is considered part of the swing.
Coaches/pros show show back swings and the position at the top all of the time.
With all of that said, the transition is considered the start of the down swing.
The hips starting either a squat or a counter rotation is considered a/the start of the down swing(transition).
(disclaimer; the down swing doesn't HAVE to start with either of these, but I haven't heard one single coach/pro say otherwise)
So, that leaves you! YOU.

BTW; if you rotate your hips to start the down swing, yes your butt(actually pelvis) with pull the hands down via the torso following along with it.
R- i asked a simple question hoping to open an adult discussion and I got your reply saying , “ don’t be assine !” End of our coorespondence . Have a great day , sir !
 
R- i asked a simple question hoping to open an adult discussion and I got your reply saying , “ don’t be assine !” End of our coorespondence . Have a great day , sir !
don't ask asinine questions. In reality or at best you asked a "loaded" question.
Pulling down the "lever" isn't the start of the down swing.

End of communication: that's fine. you have a circular reference argument anyway. The discussion has gone round and round on your "butt, mind or hands" doing the swing.

15 pages when you were basically refuted in 2.
 
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I don't dispute the hands are very important. I am not a Golfing Machine golfer, but even those that are say "educated hands"
I just don't think you "lead" with the hands. You let them work thru your "Natural happening" via a proper induction into the swing with a lower body rotation and a strong shoulder rotation. As Hogan stated, "the hands do nothing until about hip level". Watch any tour pro and their hands are almost passive until....about hip level.
I also don't feel they initiate that hand action, I think(key word there:)) that is is a natural reaction to centripetal energy, the endless belt illustration of the GM.

I'd almost bet that if you took 50 municipal golfers, heck even most club golfers and told them to lead with the hands, a major portion of them would come over the top.
Then tell them to rotate the lower body first, and the majority of them hands will fall into a natural position to come from inside out. There will be outliers in each group, but the majority would probably follow suit.

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Someone stated that you don't have time to initiate a lower body rotation; tell me a baseball batter has time to step forward when a pitch is coming at him 90-99 mph and a golfer doesn't have time to rotate hips when the ball is sitting there stationary.
The DS in golf takes less than 1/4 second. If your intention is for lower body rotation , then before starting DS, that is your intention. However nothing else in the Ds will be a given. ie arms, hands, elbows
There isnt the neuron network in our motor cortex to tie hip rotation to arms and hands and elbows etc etc.

If intent from top of BS is to keep right palm facing the sky through impact, then other body parts including hips will support the intent we have of our hands.

For left hand dominant swinging right hand; their intent would be to keep palm of left hand facing the ground from top of BS through impact and other body parts will support.
note how small the area of the motor cortex devoted to hips, compared to hands including fingers
 
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The DS in golf takes less than 1/4 second. If your intention is for lower body rotation , then before starting DS, that is your intention. However nothing else in the Ds will be a given. ie arms, hands, elbows
There isnt the neuron network in our motor cortex to tie hip rotation to arms and hands and elbows etc etc.

If intent from top of BS is to keep right palm facing the sky through impact, then other body parts including hips will support the intent we have of our hands.

For left hand dominant swinging right hand; their intent would be to keep palm of left hand facing the ground from top of BS through impact and other body parts will support.
note how small the area of the motor cortex devoted to hips, compared to hands including fingers
Arlo,
I did notice that the greatest ball striker in the game spent lots of time showing how he held the grip and how that kept the hands from rolling over . I also noticed the palm of his right hand was facing skyward at address . Seems that was very important to him .
 
I'm way late to this thread, but I just started reading a golf mentality book, and I highly recommend it for anyone that struggles with the golf mental side of the game. It talks about and addresses swing thoughts all through out the book, what one should be thinking about vs. what not to think about.

Golf Is Not a Game of Perfect - It's on amazon for like $15

Teaser - The answer is basicall you should have no swing thoughts about the mechanic of your swing, and only be thinking about your line and where you want to put the ball...
 
Arlo,
I did notice that the greatest ball striker in the game spent lots of time showing how he held the grip and how that kept the hands from rolling over . I also noticed the palm of his right hand was facing skyward at address . Seems that was very important to him .
Who is/was the greatest ball striker in the game? That very point could be massively debated.
 
Arlo,
I did notice that the greatest ball striker in the game spent lots of time showing how he held the grip and how that kept the hands from rolling over . I also noticed the palm of his right hand was facing skyward at address . Seems that was very important to him .
We must have read different books and articles about Hogan's swing (if Ben Hogan is the golfer you are referring to). He was big on supinating his left forearm before impact. Supination is palm up (when the forearm is below horizontal and palm down above horizontal). During the second half of the downswing his left palm was rotating upwards and his right palm was rotating downwards while his right upper arm was rotating clockwise. His right forearm was being rotated counterclockwise by the left forearm which had control of the golf club. There may have been resistance by the right forearm but it would have lost to the left forearm. So we have the left wrist closing the clubface and the right resisting through impact.
 
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