Jack Nicklaus and the request for a ball roll back

[wazzubrew]

If you want to roll the ball back for the pros, fine. Long hitters will still have an advantage. The simple solution on the pro tours is to grow the rough higher. Make it more difficult hit shots if you miss the fairway. LEAVE amateur golf alone.

Only 2 pages into this thread so far but this is more on the right track in my opinion.

All sports are going through this. It's evolution, athleticism, training, etc. If you measure the avg. NBA vertical or the avg. NFL 40 meter dash time vs 20 years ago it wouldn't even be close. Make the game more finesse and skill (Steph Curry revolutionized the game like this), don't raise the hoop. Athleticism and strength should still be rewarded but not the end-all be-all. Don't push back the fences. MLB messed up by juicing baseballs and rolling them back. Be smart and figure out a way to reward smart and precise play.

 

[Hitsnmisses]

Agree with above , the game from someone non USA , is as it’s labelled “bomb and gouge “ … Also l see alot of games played in pristine conditions…. We even saw the cancellation of a tournament to see if females could qualify for higher level . Play the games with wind or with rain etc . Like the rest of world does . That will inhibit below par scoring and ball roll .

 

[Brucem609]

I think the Tour ball is about to get rolled back. No idea what we amatuer's will get. Me I could not care less how good pro's play. If they can shoot -30 at some course so be it. I think the USGA is far too fixated on how good pro's play.

The courses are way to pristine, way to perfect, the players are way too coddled, and given way too much.
Let them play on my home course where there is divots and pitch marks.
We will not see -30 then.
Yeah, roll the ball back, put back in the shot makers hands and take distance out of it.

 

[DataDude]

The courses are way to pristine, way to perfect, the players are way too coddled, and given way too much.
Let them play on my home course where there is divots and pitch marks.
We will not see -30 then.
Yeah, roll the ball back, put back in the shot makers hands and take distance out of it.

I'm not sure what constitutes a shot maker in your mind but I can assure you if they roll back the ball and play the same courses they play now the longest hitters are going to have an even bigger advantage.

 

[blugold]

The courses are way to pristine, way to perfect, the players are way too coddled, and given way too much.
Let them play on my home course where there is divots and pitch marks.
We will not see -30 then.
Yeah, roll the ball back, put back in the shot makers hands and take distance out of it.

Distance and shot making are not mutually exclusive.

 

[NeverWiff]

This ball argument is older than Jack. When I started playing we used wound balls and ”wood” woods. Should we go back to those? Maybe hickory shafted clubs and gutta percha balls? I loved Jack as a player, probably my 2nd favorite of all time behind Hogan. But Jack, the game you helped become more popular has now transcended you. Roll back the ball? No. Roll back club tech? No. Jack probably wouldn’t be saying these things if he were playing in his prime right now. This distance thing is a ratings bonanza. The PGA and advertisers won’t have it any other way.

I’m not saying he’s right but, to be fair to Nicklaus, I believe he’s been talking about rolling the ball back since the late 1970’s, early 80’s? Or maybe it just seems that way. If nothing else, he’s been consistent about it.

 

[AndyL0711]

Jack is my favorite player ever BUT as many have said on here: let this one go jack. Even if you dial the ball back then the longest hitters will still be the longest hitters....that won't change.

 

[NeverWiff]

I haven't played a Jack designed course. From what I read about them here, they're not easy. It's probably not the type of golf I want to play. I'm not into exercises in frustration. I'm into fun.

Jack is sounding to me like an old stick in the mud that can't accept that the game that he loves dearly and pays for his yachts is changing.

Played 1 Nicklaus course in my life Bayside Resort in Delaware. Probably the hardest course I’ve been on. Seemed like traps were everywhere.. Just a tough, tough 18 holes. I could have hit the ball 350 yds off the tee and it STILL would have been difficult!!

 

[BigMac]

To be fair, since that time he has released numerous golf balls, none of which have any sort of distance restriction. From the media event we were at.

"What we are offering them is a chance to play the best ball they can get that will give them the most distance, the most playability, and the most control for their swing speed."

It's sort of like Faldo, who's another retro-grouch about rolling back the ball - yet he pimps Sqairz shoes and touts how they'll make you hit the ball further. Situational ethics.

 

[GolfTravelDude]

In every other sport, amazing feats are supported, in golf, “tradition” is the cry against them. Blows my mind.

Why does baseball still use wood bats? Why not titanium or composites like in college? Cuz they would hit 100 HR's....

 

[echico]

Why does baseball still use wood bats? Why not titanium or composites like in college? Cuz they would hit 100 HR's....

And line drives at the pitcher would kill them.

 

[Matthew]

Just a thought, Jack started harping about distance when he wasn’t the longest on Tour & age was catching up to him. Does that timeline add up?
I don’t recall Hogan getting up in arms about distance or rolling equipment back. Just that the young guys didn’t have it as tough as he did. Lord Byron never said a bad word about anyone. Arnie endorsed a non confirming driver, because he thought people could enjoy the game more. Could it be that Jack was then & probably still is a ………

Are professional golfers driving the ball too far? I don’t think so. I watch professionals because they do things I can’t. To me, that’s the fun of it. Are scores getting to low? They ain’t changed that much. I believe there’s a reason some big hitters don’t play Harbor Town or Colonial, their games don’t fit those courses. Just some thoughts.

 

[GolfTravelDude]

And line drives at the pitcher would kill them.

Agreed. But golf moved from wood to titanium/composites...Hence my point.

 

[BigMac]

I’m going to vote no on this one. Jack is entitled to his beliefs. But it’s simple shrink the fairways and grow the rough. Problem solved.

If the PGA Tour is about growing golf and getting eyeballs on the game, there's probably no worse idea IMO. Maybe I'm an aberration, but I watch golf to be amazed by the best in the world displaying their talents. I'd rather watch them hitting filthy bombs and throwing darts on the greens for birdies and eagles than I would see them hacking out of shin-deep rough and making bogeys all day long. If I want to see that garbage I'll take a lawn chair and a cooler to my local muni on Saturday and Sunday. I don't need to watch all their commercials on TV or pay to go to a PGA Tour event to see a bunch of guys struggle around a course and shoot 20 over par.

I'm not overly thrilled with any of the options and I'm not going to quit playing golf, regardless of what happens..... BUT I'd be "ok" with #3.
It would allow me (all of us, actually) to continue to play the same game (and in some instances on the same courses) as a pro and compare our abilities to what we see on the tube every weekend. Not too many other sports offer up that opportunity.

I see this pop up every time the topic is discussed. We don't play the same game as the pros, our abilities aren't comparable, and I have zero interest in being made into more of a short knocker than I already am and having my enjoyment of the game ruined just because a bunch of old stuffed shirts are clutching their pearls over how far the pros are hitting the ball and trying to protect their sacred par. Bifurcate and ruin the pros' game if you must, but leave us amateurs the hell alone. We're not the problem. When my drives are only going 190 instead of 230 and I'm having to hit 5 wood into every green, it's not going to make me all warm and tingly to console myself with the thought that Bryson is only hitting his drives 290 now instead of 340.

As a few guys have already said though, I have full faith that the USGA will make the worst possible decision and run with it. It seems to be their strongest suit, and they have an established track record at it.

 

[Buckeyegolfnut]

I'm not sure what constitutes a shot maker in your mind but I can assure you if they roll back the ball and play the same courses they play now the longest hitters are going to have an even bigger advantage.

Reminds me of the time when courses, like Augusta, tried to "Tiger proof" them. It just gave him a bigger advantage.

Also, let's not forger that Arnie was saying the same thing before he died. I also saw an article or post somewhere about Dustin Johnson hitting old Nicklaus style drivers and getting just as good distance out of them as with modern clubs. But Nicklaus and Palmer never complained about the clubs, only the balls. In fact, it had to be a post on a webforum because I replied and asked what BALL did he hit? Did he hit those crappy, old MacGregor Tourneys that Nicklaus played. One of the worst golf balls ever made! It would have been interesting to see those distance numbers!

 

[GolfTravelDude]

I grew up a Jack fan. I'm not a fan of his designs. But I respect the man quite a bit. He always balanced his golf life with his family life well. As a golf forum I get the whole discussion about stuff. Jack has argued about golf ball distance for 40 years. It's not a new subject. Is it relevant. Well opinions coming from possibly the GOAT are at least worthy of hearing.
It is a good point of view that manipulating course conditions can toughen up the courses. Please keep in mind though that these courses have members who play them. The rough doesn't grow thick instantly. The fairways aren't cut narrow instantly. Many members don't want the PGA and USGA visiting either. So there is a delicate balance about conditioning with the Pros visiting.
THP is an awesome place. It's 99% positive. Jack deserves better than what THP is putting forth here. That's my unpopular opinion.

 

[Jman]

Why does baseball still use wood bats? Why not titanium or composites like in college? Cuz they would hit 100 HR's....

So by that logic golf should go back to mashies, niblicks, and such? Yeah, that makes TOTAL sense.

 

[hadi05]

So by that logic golf should go back to mashies, niblicks, and such? Yeah, that makes TOTAL sense.

Sounds like a ton of fun @Jman.

 

[BigMac]

So by that logic golf should go back to mashies, niblicks, and such? Yeah, that makes TOTAL sense.

Don't give the USGA any ideas. We'll all be playing hickory shafts, persimmon woods and gutta percha balls and wearing wool suits and ties!

 

[hadi05]

Don't give the USGA any ideas. We'll all be playing hickory shafts, persimmon woods and gutta percha balls and wearing wool suits and ties!

That means the old Bryson hat comes back.... NOOOOOOOOO!!!!

 

[GolfTravelDude]

So by that logic golf should go back to mashies, niblicks, and such? Yeah, that makes TOTAL sense.

Baseball bats have been wood forever. Your logic is illogical. Golf has always evolved. Baseball hasn't. Why?

 

[AndyL0711]

Can't think of many sports that have changed as much as golf has equipment wise....tennis I guess.

 

[hadi05]

Can't think of many sports that have changed as much as golf has equipment wise....tennis I guess.

Idk, they still have strings in them lol

 

[djt311]

 

[AndyL0711]

Idk, they still have strings in them lol

I have played with a wooden racquet and the modern racquet...I have no clue how they did it. I guess when that's all you know then that's all you know.