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Blade vs CB Video...Interesting Results

SuperStroke
I'm much more a various grays guy than black or white. I can see the reason why people use the max'd out technology irons and I can see why people use traditional clubs.

If anyone is interested this is a video Crossfield posted after an extended experiment with him MP5s. My perception of him is that typically he is a players iron guy until he gets to about 5 iron (27 degrees give or take) and then prefers hybrids. I don't know what his WITB is at the moment so maybe it is different,



Dave
 
I enjoy Crossfield. He's a nut. And I'm mostly enjoying the subsequent blade v. GI/SGI debate.

A little personal story I think is funny. I tested a bunch of irons and shafts this winter on GCQuad. A bunch. I decided I hit MB/CB blades better than other irons. I asked the fitter what he thought. He said, "you like blades." I said, "and I hit them better." I listed reasons. He said, "you prefer them." I followed up, "wouldn't you fit me into blades?" He said, "yes, because you like them." Got it. I can live with that. :p
 
Canadan said:
This is where you need to accept that perception is different for everyone (and the beauty of a discussion like this on a golf forum).

Nothing about that video, for me, presents like Mark is trying to tell a story purely on his experiences or abilities. Nothing wrong with either of our interpretations.
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Never said there was. Only thing I asked is where is mark (Or any other youtuber doing these comparisons) Are telling golfers they SHOULD be gaming blades
 
I agree with others, hand it to a 20+HC and reproduce the test. I'm sure the results would be rather telling.
 
Dawg 1 said:
Never said there was. Only thing I asked is where is mark (Or any other youtuber doing these comparisons) Are telling golfers they SHOULD be gaming blades
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It's playing into a narrative.
Video is called "best irons" which blurs a line.
Video thumbnail has "Myth busting" in it
Story line claims that we're talking how manufacturers want to talk - calls it a card trick
Does nothing to break down differences in head vs head (shaft v shaft - sw v sw etc)
Ignores critical data elements in final report

Does he need to specifically tell someone something? The whole video is trending that way.
 
JB said:
The defense is quite odd actually, considering the same reviewer in the video raves about his hybrid irons and plays them...
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He has explained on social media why he plays the irons he does.

I am pretty sure he doesn’t say anywhere in the video you should be playing one or the other. I’ve actually never heard him say that in any video. His message is ignore the marketing and get fit. Find what works for you, a message I happen to agree with 100%. The perception is you need to be a single figure great ball striker to hit blades, that video presents data that makes you think.
What I took away from it, rightly or wrongly, is that blades will give better dispersion front to back, but your going to probably lose a little distance. You’ll get better distance and launch with the SGI, but there will be a bigger spread in distance. I’ve lost count the amount of times I’ve seen on here and other forums folk post about clubs with hot faces, people getting flyers where the ball flies an extra 10 or 15 yards than they were expecting. That video is actually confirming what many many people post here and other forums LOL. I often think he does himself few favours with his videos, as there is no doubt, he can often come across as pretty condescending.
 
Canadan said:
It's playing into a narrative.
Video is called "best irons" which blurs a line.
Video thumbnail has "Myth busting" in it
Story line claims that we're talking how manufacturers want to talk - calls it a card trick
Does nothing to break down differences in head vs head (shaft v shaft - sw v sw etc)
Ignores critical data elements in final report

Does he need to specifically tell someone something? The whole video is trending that way.
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I get that. From watching a lot of his past videos I see it differently
 
Mark_UK said:
He has explained on social media why he plays the irons he does.

I am pretty sure he doesn’t say anywhere in the video you should be playing one or the other. I’ve actually never heard him say that in any video. His message is ignore the marketing and get fit. Find what works for you, a message I happen to agree with 100%. The perception is you need to be a single figure great ball striker to hit blades, that video presents data that makes you think.
What I took away from it, rightly or wrongly, is that blades will give better dispersion front to back, but your going to probably lose a little distance. You’ll get better distance and launch with the SGI, but there will be a bigger spread in distance. I’ve lost count the amount of times I’ve seen on here and other forums folk post about clubs with hot faces, people getting flyers where the ball flies an extra 10 or 15 yards than they were expecting. That video is actually confirming what many many people post here and other forums LOL. I often think he does himself few favours with his videos, as there is no doubt, he can often come across as pretty condescending.
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Here is the results chart from a distance perspective again.

1590158721124.png

If we're talking about a higher handicap player, the percentage of "poor" strikes will undoubtedly outweigh the percentage of good strikes (not that I have a clue how that's being defined here). What an SGI club does is normalize the error shots to be in a spin/ball-speed/launch/deviation condition that still performs, whereas a bladed iron will punish heavily anything that's not dead on the nuts (totally ignoring the fat or thinned shots).

Let's also take a second to compare the two clusters. First of all, there are 8 more shots (I think based on a quick count) taken with the Blade which produces more of a populated look vs the SGI. Also, for a higher handicap player, this means that the poor shot grouping is far more important than the good shot grouping. In the case of the SGI, other than the expected outliers, the results of bad strikes are surprisingly tight - which is what they are designed to do.

Also consider the fact that Mark hit 19 'good' shots with the blade (almost 50%) vs 6 with the SGI (about 17%) and I am immediately starting to think that something wasn't working with the overall profile for him. His extremes are quite massive with a club designed to reduce extremes.
 
Dawg 1 said:
I take it as the data posted in the video shows it may be more precise for him. Not every golfer
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Some of us did too, then some came in here talking about marketing hype and how 30 year old clubs are the same as today’s clubs.
 
Canadan said:
Here is the results chart from a distance perspective again.

View attachment 8944938

If we're talking about a higher handicap player, the percentage of "poor" strikes will undoubtedly outweigh the percentage of good strikes (not that I have a clue how that's being defined here). What an SGI club does is normalize the error shots to be in a spin/ball-speed/launch/deviation condition that still performs, whereas a bladed iron will punish heavily anything that's not dead on the nuts (totally ignoring the fat or thinned shots).

Let's also take a second to compare the two clusters. First of all, there are 8 more shots (I think based on a quick count) taken with the Blade which produces more of a populated look vs the SGI. Also, for a higher handicap player, this means that the poor shot grouping is far more important than the good shot grouping. In the case of the SGI, other than the expected outliers, the results of bad strikes are surprisingly tight - which is what they are designed to do.

Also consider the fact that Mark hit 19 'good' shots with the blade (almost 50%) vs 6 with the SGI (about 17%) and I am immediately starting to think that something wasn't working with the overall profile for him. His extremes are quite massive with a club designed to reduce extremes.
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🙌
 
Canadan said:
Here is the results chart from a distance perspective again.

View attachment 8944938

If we're talking about a higher handicap player, the percentage of "poor" strikes will undoubtedly outweigh the percentage of good strikes (not that I have a clue how that's being defined here). What an SGI club does is normalize the error shots to be in a spin/ball-speed/launch/deviation condition that still performs, whereas a bladed iron will punish heavily anything that's not dead on the nuts (totally ignoring the fat or thinned shots).

Let's also take a second to compare the two clusters. First of all, there are 8 more shots (I think based on a quick count) taken with the Blade which produces more of a populated look vs the SGI. Also, for a higher handicap player, this means that the poor shot grouping is far more important than the good shot grouping. In the case of the SGI, other than the expected outliers, the results of bad strikes are surprisingly tight - which is what they are designed to do.

Also consider the fact that Mark hit 19 'good' shots with the blade (almost 50%) vs 6 with the SGI (about 17%) and I am immediately starting to think that something wasn't working with the overall profile for him. His extremes are quite massive with a club designed to reduce extremes.
Click to expand...
Also, he defines “bad” by one factor - distance from center strike. Most mid teen and higher caps have a lot different issue going on - path to club face, casting, hit behind the ball instead of compressing the ball, not hitting the ball with a descending blow, inconsistent swing, etc. He is good enough that all of those factors are eliminated. Many/most of his bad strikes are not bad at all for us hackers.
 
tequila4kapp said:
Also, he defines “bad” by one factor - distance from center strike. Most mid teen and higher caps have a lot different issue going on - path to club face, casting, hit behind the ball instead of compressing the ball, not hitting the ball with a descending blow, inconsistent swing, etc. He is good enough that all of those factors are eliminated. Many/most of his bad strikes are not bad at all for us hackers.
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Oh wow, I just assumed with the data available using GCQuad and the dots on the head that he would be considering either efficiency or location on the face.
 
The blades of yesteryear:

iu.jpeg

Now that's a blade, lol.

Today's MB:

iu-1.jpeg

These look a bit more forgiving than the one in the first photo.
 
dthrog00 said:
I'm much more a various grays guy than black or white. I can see the reason why people use the max'd out technology irons and I can see why people use traditional clubs.

If anyone is interested this is a video Crossfield posted after an extended experiment with him MP5s. My perception of him is that typically he is a players iron guy until he gets to about 5 iron (27 degrees give or take) and then prefers hybrids. I don't know what his WITB is at the moment so maybe it is different,



Dave
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Great advice here.
I grew up in the game playing blades because there was nothing else so I am confident with them. Those who came into the game during the game improvement era will have a different view about the playability of blades verse cavity backs than my generation of golfers.
An example hat comes o mind is a golf prodigy from my club that has always played with cavity backs even though his tests with Titleist reveal that he is one of the purest strikers of the ball within the Company's tour staffers. Why doesn't he play with blades? I am guessing it is a mental thing from exposure to marketing and never playing blades. The interesting thing is his first win on the USPGA tour came with TMB irons in the bag which he replace with the AP2 equivalent at his next testing.
 
I know an LPGA Tour player...have been a family friend since she was 10 (played golf with her the other day), and she has always played MB's. There is this tiny little brown spot on the sweet spot of every one of her irons.
 
Individual results will vary... I've played really good golf with each and really bad with each. I do think over the course of a season, a great disparity will show between the two. As was mentioned prior, hit a blade fat and the swing flaw will show quickly regardless of lie. Hit a SGI fat and you just might have a chance to get through the round.

Find yourself in the rough with a strong lofted 7 iron around 29 degrees and see if you have an increased probability of getting a flier vs the loft of a 7 iron around 33-35 degrees giving you a little bit more protection given swung the same way at the same SPEED.

Higher handicaps have slower swing speeds on average? Seems to be the variable that's not being discussed. It is a skill that can be improved. I've went from 98mph with a driver to 112mph. Technique and knowledge being the biggest factors. Launch, spin, decent, peak height all are dependent on speed.
 
KEV said:
Totally random thought but I'm curious how many people that are blade die hards use mallet putters. I would think they would also only use blade putters and would be kind of ironic if they used forgiving mallets.
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I dig this random thought. This, and the whole thread really makes me want to game a set of blades just to see if it affects my scores. Because I'm basically the opposite. I play tech-y irons, but you try to swap my blade putter for a mallet, and I'm likely to hurt you.
 
I had my own blade experiment when I played the local executive course tonight using my MP4 set and 52*/56* bladed wedges. I was 4/9 GIRs. The 4 GIRs were converted into pars. The 5 misses were: correct distance and pushed right 3X, correct distance and pulled left 1X, and a duffy 9 iron that was way short.

I had fun and generally felt confident.

I feel like I was rewarded on the good swings (2 GIR irons, 2 GIR wedges). 4 of the mishits were not that penal as I was still making yardage and I'm unsure if a cavity would have saved those or not. I've been having all kinds of terrible mishits this season so the duffed 9 iron isn't that uncommon and has been occurring with any of my clubs unfortunately (G15, TE forged, and now MP4).

I really like the MP4s and am going to continue using them. I will not say they make better, but I don't think they make me noticeably worse. I think the key for me is to pick a set, any set, and keep using it.

Last season my average in 10 times out with the MP4s was an adjusted for par 36 45.80 on full length courses and 42.48 on the local executive course. Using all other irons on the same courses in 35 times out my averages were 46.94 / 43.21. I had a rough patch last July so that is probably accounting for the higher scores with the other irons.

I've learned that my score primarily comes down to ability to drive the ball in play with reasonable distance and quality of my short game.

Dave
 
I’m think going to keeep an eye out for a decent cheap set of MB. Test. Torture. Whatever.
 
JB said:
I didn't say they said that. Again I am genuinely asking here, not asking you to defend them.
The data posted in that video says MBs are more precise and more forgiving than the counterpart.
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I think there is more then 1 kind of forgiveness, in his video he did mention the height difference between the irons. MB might be better front to back (in this video which I don’t 100 agree with) but launch goes to GI irons.
 
blugold said:
Ok, good golfer doesn't see a ton of deviation.

What about a 24 handicap?
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Exactly.

I'm cheap, I hate to gamble, and I have $100 that says there's no way I get anywhere near those results with a thin sole blade - at least not off of turf. I've done too many comparison tests and the results have always been consistently better for the SGI - and I really wanted the blade to perform better. I do have a set of 80's blades that I hit fairly well (relatively), but they have a very wide sole. Not at all like the Top Flight used in the video. Not sure what iron he was testing (7 or 6?). Most us high cappers might do better with 7i and shorter but almost none of us can hit a longer blade very well, in my estimation.

It was an interested video. I like it when reviews track and compare stats. Still, it's not a very comprehensive test without using different levels of players. I don't think that Maverick iron is designed for low single-digit players.
 
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