Single Plane Swing - Simplified Biomechanics?

Well, if the weather holds I'm gonna hit the range today and, instead of trying to swing like I was taught to swing, I think I'm gonna experiment with seeing if I can figure out what works for me. Not going to abandon the fundamentals, per se, but try some... variations, I guess you could say. Maybe see if I can somewhat emulate Sparks, or try what Junge was demonstrating. Maybe see what I can make of Venetos' points.

I can make a traditional swing work, but, even after better than three months of practice it still feels contrived, awkward, and wrong.


I too have found that I've made adjustments to the Graves/Moe SPS swing to account for my natural swing tendencies. As long as I keep the fundamentals of the address: ball distance, stance width for the club, 14-17 degree back lean etc.... Then all seems to work with my variations once I start the swing.
 
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Well, if the weather holds I'm gonna hit the range today and, instead of trying to swing like I was taught to swing, I think I'm gonna experiment with seeing if I can figure out what works for me. Not going to abandon the fundamentals, per se, but try some... variations, I guess you could say. Maybe see if I can somewhat emulate Sparks, or try what Junge was demonstrating. Maybe see what I can make of Venetos' points.

I can make a traditional swing work, but, even after better than three months of practice it still feels contrived, awkward, and wrong.
Exactly...and my advice to you based upon my experience is to NOT let your brain override your intuition. I suggest going to the range and thinking "hey, we're gonna have some fun trying stuff". "Who cares about the outcome?". "This swing is weird for me, but, hey body....how would you swing this swing?". Let go.

As you can tell, I work a LOT on the mental game because I can't tell you how many lessons I've had where the pro says "what do you want to improve, you have a great swing, are you trying to tweak something?". I've also been told my mental side negatively impacts my ability to be scratch. I'm not bragging, I'm simply saying I ruined what was otherwise a good swing with over-instruction. As I said before, I now can sing a song while hitting even the hardest of shots and the outcome is often better than shots with tons of brow-beating instructions.

If I went with you I'd have fun taking a super-strong grip, weak grip, half swing, closed / open stances, etc. I've done this and found that my body figures out PDQ how to adjust if I DON'T inject instructions.
 
over-analysis - Oh trust me I still do this! But now I have a stable foundation that gives me reassurance: If I can make this swing with the correct form, the address position, the results are repeatable and usually fairly good. I do struggle still with Driver for distance based on my swing speed. The impact is all over the place. But that I think is more of a personal impact/accuracy issue (technique) more then anything.
I found I had some weird subliminal manipulative controlling reflex either in my arms or hands during my down swing that was enhanced with my driver because maybe my brain was possibly saying, "hit it farther, but don't go there". I chalk it up to tension and my brain's quest to control the outcome.
 
Exactly...and my advice to you based upon my experience is to NOT let your brain override your intuition. I suggest going to the range and thinking "hey, we're gonna have some fun trying stuff". "Who cares about the outcome?". "This swing is weird for me, but, hey body....how would you swing this swing?". Let go.
That was The Plan. Mother Nature, the byotch :mad:, had other plans for me.

The good news is that, by relaxing, and just working on swinging easily, I had few ground balls and all but one or two of the bucket went where I was aiming. So it wasn't a complete rain-out. But successful experimentation went out the window after that one squall passed. After that I was somewhat preoccupied with the next one I knew was coming. (Barely beat it, too.)

So, another day, I guess.

One thing I suspect is practicing with limited-flight and wiffle balls off the top of the grass in the back yard has not done me any favors. I suspect my body's gotten used to the higher ball height and that's why I'm inclined to skull the ball. So no more of that.
 
That was The Plan. Mother Nature, the byotch :mad:, had other plans for me.

The good news is that, by relaxing, and just working on swinging easily, I had few ground balls and all but one or two of the bucket went where I was aiming. So it wasn't a complete rain-out. But successful experimentation went out the window after that one squall passed. After that I was somewhat preoccupied with the next one I knew was coming. (Barely beat it, too.)

So, another day, I guess.

One thing I suspect is practicing with limited-flight and wiffle balls off the top of the grass in the back yard has not done me any favors. I suspect my body's gotten used to the higher ball height and that's why I'm inclined to skull the ball. So no more of that.
I think you're fine. Imagine (maybe) DECADES of an overly oppressive instructional mind in golf, then suddenly "letting go"? It won't happen over night. It's a process that IMO you will not recognize improvement until one day your brain gives-in. It's like my piano analogy, my left hand WOULD NOT give-in to relaxing and playing the bass clef notes. I tried to tell it to stop being a butthead, concentrated "real hard", etc. Then one day, out of nowhere, at about 930pm it started to play the notes. The trick is to keep at it and not give-up because your brain likely enjoys has a very dominant influence over your golf swing.
 
GLM is correct about thinking while attempting to do something. Singing turns your brain off to the golf swing and let's the body and muscle memory take over. It works shooting free throws, hitting a tennis ball, and countless other activities.

I had my first lesson Thursday and I am trying to do a good job and wasn't hitting well. Finally got angry and just hit the ball, beautiful shot. If I just hit the golf ball and don't think about it, it goes far and straight. I started talking to him while hitting the ball and nice shots just kept coming. He likes most everything about my swing but would like me to get into my left side a little more.

I am trying to keep the swing simple and repeatable. There is a little bit of the above swings in my swing. A little stack and tilt, a little more weight on the left, and trying to be still but not quite venetos still and not quite single plane but not far off either. Just finding a simple and comfortable swing.

Great thread.. Props to the OP for starting it
 
GLM is correct about thinking while attempting to do something. Singing turns your brain off to the golf swing and let's the body and muscle memory take over. It works shooting free throws, hitting a tennis ball, and countless other activities.

I had my first lesson Thursday and I am trying to do a good job and wasn't hitting well. Finally got angry and just hit the ball, beautiful shot. If I just hit the golf ball and don't think about it, it goes far and straight. I started talking to him while hitting the ball and nice shots just kept coming. He likes most everything about my swing but would like me to get into my left side a little more.

I am trying to keep the swing simple and repeatable. There is a little bit of the above swings in my swing. A little stack and tilt, a little more weight on the left, and trying to be still but not quite venetos still and not quite single plane but not far off either. Just finding a simple and comfortable swing.

Great thread.. Props to the OP for starting it
Thanks! It seems hard to trust muscle memory in golf. I think practice swings are the result of the creative side of the brain having a chance to participate. I cannot tell you how many times I've taken several really good practice swings with a 60* wedge, rotation, relaxed, then employ some other swing 5 seconds later. I don't even bother analyzing what happened because that simply supports more internal chalkboard discussions.

In reality we have muscle memory, but many of us simply employ the memory that relates to movements that serve to hinder an otherwise fluid swing. Does that make sense? Why is the memory of a flawed swing clung-to with such passion, and any change is considered to be "difficult"?
 
Thanks! It seems hard to trust muscle memory in golf. I think practice swings are the result of the creative side of the brain having a chance to participate. I cannot tell you how many times I've taken several really good practice swings with a 60* wedge, rotation, relaxed, then employ some other swing 5 seconds later. I don't even bother analyzing what happened because that simply supports more internal chalkboard discussions.

In reality we have muscle memory, but many of us simply employ the memory that relates to movements that serve to hinder an otherwise fluid swing. Does that make sense? Why is the memory of a flawed swing clung-to with such passion, and any change is considered to be "difficult"?
The player has to own his swing before he can trust it to unconscious thought during competition. But what if it is a flawed swing with a low percentage of good strikes? Who wants a swing like that?
 
The player has to own his swing before he can trust it to unconscious thought during competition. But what if it is a flawed swing with a low percentage of good strikes? Who wants a swing like that?
Don't you think you'd know if the swing was highly flawed?
 
Was flawed - with a low percentage of good shots, yeah I think so.
Your comment about having a swing first, then unconscious thought thereafter is reasonable. Otherwise I don't see how the pro's can stay in the game week after week. Sure, they practice and work on certain aspects, but at the end of the day they can't take all the mumbo jumbo with them to the course. It has to be intuitive. But even those guys have great and very bad weeks. I tend to think they lose mental focus because they obviously know how to swing a club intuitively.
 
Your comment about having a swing first, then unconscious thought thereafter is reasonable. Otherwise I don't see how the pro's can stay in the game week after week. Sure, they practice and work on certain aspects, but at the end of the day they can't take all the mumbo jumbo with them to the course. It has to be intuitive. But even those guys have great and very bad weeks. I tend to think they lose mental focus because they obviously know how to swing a club intuitively.
My comments about a swing first etc?? I said own his swing.
 
I have a question for the folks out there: How long do you think, or feel your swing takes vs. the actual swing time? This may sound like a stupid question but I got into a discussion this morning with my pro that was kinda interesting. He said the reason people believe they can instruct themselves during a swing is because they perceive the swing to take much longer than it actually does. He said they don't realize their instructions are like sending a message to the Moon, by the time the instructions get there whatever happened has happened.
 
I would agree with your Pro. For example a check swing in MLB. It is very hard for those guys to stop a swing once it's started. They have fractions of a second to attempt to stop it.
 
I have a question for the folks out there: How long do you think, or feel your swing takes vs. the actual swing time?
It's been documented to be 0.2 to 0.25 seconds. So short a time that it is all but impossible for your brain to communicate anything to your muscles, and your muscles too react, by the time the club hits the ball.

In short: By the time you begin your swing, the ball's fate is determined.
 
Scooby / Duffer, I agree with the pro too, but it didn't take much for me to agree because I can't recall my body EVER taking any instruction after the takeaway. If I could do that, I would be on TV every weekend...LOL. I find all I can do is have some sort of mental cue, like relax, but even thinking "relax" can end up being the opposite just second after I think it, especially on tight lie wedges.
 
I was watching the golf tourney today and there was a guy who looked like he was using the SPS. I don't recall his hame.
 
My swing continues to evolve. I am getting more flexible and swinging a club is feeling less awkward. Have another lesson this afternoon. I've hit balls 11 out of the last 12 days. Shoulders feeling a bit tired. Prolly gonna take off after today and not hit again until Monday.
 
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Holy smokes!

Played 18 again today. My play didn't suck. Actually, I didn't play half-badly for my sixth time out. (Nice course. Beautiful weather. Beat the storms.) My drive, while improved, wasn't 100% back to where I once had it, though.

Then, after returning home, the oldest son of the one next door neighbor suggested we drive some into the woods out back, just for S&Gs. So I got the mat out and we did. In the process, as I was watching him set up, it all-of-a-sudden dawned on me: "Did you know your swing is single-plane?" I asked him. No, he did not. Turned out that's the way one of his best friends taught him to swing, so that's how he swings. (I've seen him drive 330-340 yards.) "What's single-plane swing?" he asked. So I demonstrated the difference between how he sets up and swings to a traditional setup and swing. Yeah, he'd noticed his dad and I swing differently than he.

"I tried it, once," I told him, "but I couldn't make it work for me. I'll give it another go and see what happens."

Roaring success is what happened. Drive after drive straight, with more distance than I'd achieved all day long. Had a couple high fades, but only one slice and one ground ball out of a dozen or so drives? Then, on one drive the young man goes "Wow! That was the drive of the day, right there!" "How far, d'ya think?" I asked him. "240 yards, easy," was the reply.

Yeah, I think I just became a convert :D
 
I think I'm going to explore this concept more through the winter. As I've gotten back into golf, I've been all about eliminating variables to improve consistency and this is one of the things I've tried, primarily with the driver. One thing I'll add from some of the things I've read, if you're struggling with flexibility on the backswing, break the law and take your eyes off the ball. If you turn your head you can get your shoulders to turn a lot more. It takes a lot of trust, but if your setup is correct and you maintain your plane, it's not going to matter if you see the ball on the downswing, because whatever is going to happen is already underway.
 
Found a few videos today that have helped me. I've struggled with a consistent setup and haven't really found videos that explained or showed it in a way that clicked with me until today and one other that just explained so much in such little time by Venetos
Venetos - i had no idea


Nick Taylor


Jess Frank
 
Found a few videos today that have helped me. I've struggled with a consistent setup and haven't really found videos that explained or showed it in a way that clicked with me until today and one other that just explained so much in such little time by Venetos
Venetos - i had no idea


Nick Taylor


Jess Frank

All 3 videos are really good. Venetos has a way of simplifying golf in all his videos. As someone above said "break the law" and let your eyes move off the ball. What I like about that comment is many of us think / believe there are "laws" and if we see/hear something different we tend to poo-poo the concept when indeed it may be a better solution.

The S&T driver video is good because he goes through all the steps, and none are difficult...but...IMO the hardest part will be the initiation of the downswing with the hips / knee movement required to shallow the club. The 2nd hard part for some folks would be having the toes flared-out at address IF the feet normally point at the target line. Same with the other S&T video. Flaring the feet feels less controlled in the beginning because it allows more movement.

The one key element for me that makes or breaks any swing is ensuring the club handle stays in front of my chest for as long as possible on the backswing. If my arms start to take the club to the top without shoulder rotation...it's over...or I might hit an OK shot out of shear experience, but the odds are definitely against a good shot. What happens is the club handle is way behind the chest such that my chest and lower body have a huge head-start to the ball. In that situation I feel the need to go from 0-100 mph from the top with the arms to catch-up to my body. So when I feel like I'm swinging too fast from the top, it's because my turn got lazy and it's more of an arms backswing. I say this because no matter what swing I try, whether S&T or SPS, none will work....or all will work pending my backswing handle-to-chest position.
 
So, again, just for S&Gs, I grabbed a limited flight ball and my 7i, and batted a few off the tops of the grass. Kirk Junge is right about this: You can't just transition from a traditional swing to a SPS at full bore. When I tried that it was all fail. He recommends starting with baby swings to get used to the feel, fine tune your personal swing, etc. Doing that produced some pretty encouraging results: I was getting perfectly straight hits, perfect loft, doing baby swings, and easily hitting 'em 55-60 yards.

When I write "perfectly straight" I mean perfectly. Not even the merest hint of fades or draws. The ball went exactly where I intended it to go.
 
So, again, just for S&Gs, I grabbed a limited flight ball and my 7i, and batted a few off the tops of the grass. Kirk Junge is right about this: You can't just transition from a traditional swing to a SPS at full bore. When I tried that it was all fail. He recommends starting with baby swings to get used to the feel, fine tune your personal swing, etc. Doing that produced some pretty encouraging results: I was getting perfectly straight hits, perfect loft, doing baby swings, and easily hitting 'em 55-60 yards.

When I write "perfectly straight" I mean perfectly. Not even the merest hint of fades or draws. The ball went exactly where I intended it to go.
What's the main feel / differences you encounter when moving to an SPS? It would be interesting to hear your observations.
 
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