about Harding Park GC

[DG_1234]

I was born in SF and have played - practiced at Harding most of my life.
20 years ago this city owned course was upgraded with a 2 year renovation project, including construction of new greens and bunkers, new practice area and new clubhouse. In exchange for the upgrade
the PGA of America and PGA Tour agreed to hold some future events at Harding.To date the "new Harding" has hosted a WGC, President's Cup, and three Charles Schwab Cup Senior Tour events.
For this week's PGA Championship Harding has constructed 5 new tee boxes which increase the total length of the course by about 350 yards. Also, the fairways have been narrowed to an average width of about 25 yards. Harding's relatively small greens are mostly flat with subtle breaks.
On the property there is also a 9 hole short course, and this week a couple of those holes will be used as a makeshift driving range and short game practice area. The golf equipment company trucks/Tour vans are at an off site parking lot.
If you've played Harding Park please post here your thoughts about the course.

 

[chefkritter]

Played Harding Park in late 2018 while out in SF for business. Absolutely loved the course from a shot makers style of golf. There was some holes you can just bomb it but the rough was absolutely brutal, especially in some areas around the greens.
The classic feel with the big trees and not huge greens should make for some really great iron play and wedge game this week I think.

 

[OGputtnfool]

Also, the fairways have been narrowed to an average width of about 25 yards.

This warms my heart. Let them play on fairways that are narrow like we play on. Fairways 40-50 yards wide are ridiculous.

 

[DG_1234]

Played Harding Park in late 2018 while out in SF for business. Absolutely loved the course from a shot makers style of golf. There was some holes you can just bomb it but the rough was absolutely brutal, especially in some areas around the greens.
The classic feel with the big trees and not huge greens should make for some really great iron play and wedge game this week I think.

You may remember that the "big trees" all over the course had few limbs, essentially none near the ground. 20 years ago, a major part of Harding's 2 year renovation project was removing tree limbs. It looks strange to see 150 foot tall trees alongside a fairway with no greenery and or, limbs except at the very top of the tree, but this condition allows sun light to reach the grass and also makes playing golf shots more enjoyable.

 

[chefkritter]

You may remember that the "big trees" all over the course had few limbs, essentially none near the ground. 20 years ago, a major part of Harding's 2 year renovation project was removing tree limbs. It looks strange to see 150 foot tall trees alongside a fairway with no greenery and or, limbs except at the very top of the tree, but this condition allows sun light to reach the grass and also makes playing golf shots more enjoyable.

I do remember that now that you say it. that rough was super thick down in there where my ball tends to wander off into.

 

[jvbart]

Sounds like it’s going to be a challenging course that benefits ball strikers. Are there any doglegs that the bombers like Bryson can cut out or are the trees too tall?

I’m a Bay Area native but have never played there, excited to see the layout this weekend!

 

[DG_1234]

I do remember that now that you say it. that rough was super thick down in there where my ball tends to wander off into.

Do you remember the five hole stretch without a par 4 hole ? That is holes 8 thru 12 are par 3-5-5-3-5. Most people kind of know something is odd but don't think about it or try to put their finger on what's different.

 

[DG_1234]

Sounds like it’s going to be a challenging course that benefits ball strikers. Are there any doglegs that the bombers like Bryson can cut out or are the trees too tall?

I’m a Bay Area native but have never played there, excited to see the layout this weekend!

The par five 4th hole tee shot dog leg turn happens about 250 yards out, so a drive of 270 goes thru the fairway. They've built a new tee box for the PGA, making it more risky to
try and cut the corner of the dogleg.
At the 2005 WGC I was standing in the right rough and Tiger hit his tee shot thru the fairway to a point right in front of me. The crowd was about 4 rows deep and volunteer marshalls were trying to move ropes, get people out of the way etc... when Tiger walks up takes a quick look at the lie in the rough and carries a 3 wood about 260 to the green. He did all this while spectators were talking and trying to move out of the way, like he was comfortable with so many distractions and it did not bother his game.
Also, the short par 4 7th and 16th holes are one's where the longest hitters will probably try to drive the green this week.

 

[jvbart]

The par five 4th hole tee shot dog leg turn happens about 250 yards out, so a drive of 270 goes thru the fairway. They've built a new tee box for the PGA, making it more risky to
try and cut the corner of the dogleg.
At the 2005 WGC I was standing in the right rough and Tiger hit his tee shot thru the fairway to a point right in front of me. The crowd was about 4 rows deep and volunteer marshalls were trying to move ropes, get people out of the way etc... when Tiger walks up takes a quick look at the lie in the rough and carries a 3 wood about 260 to the green. He did all this while spectators were talking and trying to move out of the way, like he was comfortable with so many distractions and it did not bother his game.
Also, the short par 4 7th and 16th holes are one's where the longest hitters will probably try to drive the green this week.

Wow that's awesome you got to see that up front. I have no idea how the pros handle the pressure of everyone watching. I'm excited to see how the big hitters handle those short par 4's. High risk high reward short par 4's are my favorite holes to watch on tour.

 

[DG_1234]

Wow that's awesome you got to see that up front. I have no idea how the pros handle the pressure of everyone watching. I'm excited to see how the big hitters handle those short par 4's. High risk high reward short par 4's are my favorite holes to watch on tour.

I am usually surprised when our pros decide to try and drive a short par 4 green. The design of these holes is always small , tricky, sloping greens surrounded by either water or severe bunkers.
While a lay up off the tee usually leaves a routine 80 to 100 yard wedge shot the driver shot next to the green often leaves a difficult lie or awkward line second shot.
If the reason guys try to drive the green is the chance at a one putt eagle that just seems to me to be a very long odds strategy.
The 10th hole at Riviera CC is one where each year about half the LA Open field goes for the green and the other half lays up. If the stats are kept, I wonder what the numbers are for birdies made going for that green versus laying up.
At Harding the short par 4 7th has a slender curvy green with two bunkers and all around deep rough. The short par 16th green is also a curvy shaped green surrounded by a few bunkers and deep rough. I guess about 70% of the PGA field players are long enough to reach these two greens and believe that the deep green side rough is the reason long hitters would not go for the greens, but that's just my assumption.

 

[David-G]

The par five 4th hole tee shot dog leg turn happens about 250 yards out, so a drive of 270 goes thru the fairway. They've built a new tee box for the PGA, making it more risky to
try and cut the corner of the dogleg.
At the 2005 WGC I was standing in the right rough and Tiger hit his tee shot thru the fairway to a point right in front of me. The crowd was about 4 rows deep and volunteer marshalls were trying to move ropes, get people out of the way etc... when Tiger walks up takes a quick look at the lie in the rough and carries a 3 wood about 260 to the green. He did all this while spectators were talking and trying to move out of the way, like he was comfortable with so many distractions and it did not bother his game.
Also, the short par 4 7th and 16th holes are one's where the longest hitters will probably try to drive the green this week.

I was at that one as well! Tiger vs Daily in the shoot out at the end, Daily one hand putt a few footer with a miss to loose I think 250K. I'm sure he never tried to one hand a put in after that one!

Absolutely love the course and will be exciting to see it played again....

 

[DG_1234]

The PGA Championship web site has excellent current photos of Harding Park's holes, and here is a link:

TPC Harding Park

Set against the cypress tree-lined Lake Merced, TPC Harding Park in San Francisco, California played host to the 2020 PGA Championship

www.pgachampionship.com

If you check out the photos notice how there are no low hanging tree limbs, which is expensive to accomplish but does improve the course and playing conditions.

 

[David-G]

The PGA Championship web site has excellent current photos of Harding Park's holes, and here is a link:

TPC Harding Park

Set against the cypress tree-lined Lake Merced, TPC Harding Park in San Francisco, California played host to the 2020 PGA Championship

www.pgachampionship.com

If you check out the photos notice how there are no low hanging tree limbs, which is expensive to accomplish but does improve the course and playing conditions.

Those where some much part of the challenge of the course :-( I guess now the goal will be to keep the ball under the tree canopy....

 

[David-G]

Also a fun one in 2005 WRC Daily bombed one on 15 that landed right next to the green at about 400 yards by hitting over the dogleg left trees. Cannot wait to see the long ballers try it this year!

 

[Junkyard]

Love the trees! Such a beautiful look.

Some of those holes are tight.... greens look small as well. Classic municipal course.

Definitely on the list if I ever get out that way

 

[DG_1234]

[

Love the trees! Such a beautiful look.

Some of those holes are tight.... greens look small as well. Classic municipal course.

Definitely on the list if I ever get out that way

As part of the remodel 20 years ago the size of most greens were expanded by it seems like roughly 15%. I guess the reason for that was to allow more hole location options for pro tournament play. But, compared to most Tour courses we see on tv each week Harding's greens are still relatively small.
The "tight tee shots" at Harding will come from the rough lines creating narrow fairway tee shot landing areas. The course is full of trees but they are well away from the fairway lines so I am not expecting PGA players will have any tree trouble this week. My guess is the rough will be the course's primary defense.

 

[jvbart]

Watching the preview show and 18 looks like a beast.

 

[DG_1234]

Watching the preview show and 18 looks like a beast.

During the WGC in 2005 hole 18 was the only one I heard received complaints from players. Specifically, 95% of the filed did not have the length to cut the dog leg, and the normal fairway landing area left an uphill 200 to 220 yard approach shot to a small, two tiered green.
What's changed since 2005 is the removal and, or, pruning of the tree (s) guarding the corner of the dogleg. So, for this week more of the field will be capable of taking the short cut tee shot route and leaving less yardage to the green.

 

[Bryndom]

Interesting, for those that have played here, do you think the changes will help keep the difficulty with the longer hitters (narrow fairways, overseeded rough, etc)? I know there are a lot of strategies that have been discussed in course design to help maintain difficulty, curious if we will see a large number under par as the winning score or something a bit closer to par?

 

[DG_1234]

Interesting, for those that have played here, do you think the changes will help keep the difficulty with the longer hitters (narrow fairways, overseeded rough, etc)? I know there are a lot of strategies that have been discussed in course design to help maintain difficulty, curious if we will see a large number under par as the winning score or something a bit closer to par?

I expect that this week rough is the primary defense of the course. The fairways are narrow so I am not sure choosing 3-wood instead of driver will be that much help to keeping the ball out of the rough. Some players may figure " the tee ball is going to end up in the rough whether it is 3-wood or driver shot so might as well swing driver and leave a shorter approach". If players try to avoid the rough by using driving irons or hybrids off the tee it may leave too long of an approach to small greens. My guess is that -9 wins the tournament.

 

[DataDude]

Sounds like it’s going to be a challenging course that benefits ball strikers. Are there any doglegs that the bombers like Bryson can cut out or are the trees too tall?

I’m a Bay Area native but have never played there, excited to see the layout this weekend!

Based on what I am reading Bryson doesn't have the short game for this course.

 

[DG_1234]

The annual SF City Championship (36 holes medal play qualifying followed by 32 player match play format) was played at Harding this past February and I was in the gallery for the final match. The guy that won it was 22 years old and very tall, I guess about 6'7" . His strategy was to find fairways swinging a TM #3 driving iron, which he carried in the air about 245 yards and was able to hit consistently straight. For the final he was about 7 under par, winning the match I think 6 up with 5 holes to play.
For the City Championship Harding was played at about 6,700 yards,and this week the PGA will be played between 7,000 and 7,200 yards, so I am not sure driving irons will be used much from the tee boxes, but it's possible.

 

[DG_1234]

Based on what I am reading Bryson doesn't have the short game for this course.

Bryson's not especially good from green side rough ?
I did read that in his 14 Major Championship starts he has no top 10 finishes.

 

[DataDude]

Bryson's not especially good from green side rough ?
I did read that in his 14 Major Championship starts he has no top 10 finishes.

Bryson's not especially good on anything except driving and putting for tour standards. He is currently 97th in strokes gained approach and 120th in strokes gained around the green. On a course with a lot of long strait holes and flat greens that will be mitigated. Everyone will putt ok and he will have to keep his drives in the fairway. He is terrible out of rough too with a 112th ranking in rough proximity to the hole. That's especially bad considering he is in the rough closer to the green than everyone else out there since he is the longest driver. My guess is this plays a lot like Bethpage Black did last year and he missed the cut there.

 

[DG_1234]

These days I don't think equipment trucks are permitted on a Tour event property, but not sure about that. Anyway, here is a photo of a SF city parking lot nearby Harding Park GC, but not on the property itself. So, I guess equipment company employees have been transporting equipment by hand back and forth to the players ? From this parking lot it's about a mile walk to the golf practice area.