And so....for those with many rounds played this season, how much has the new cap system moved your number down?

[rollin]

I know we had an older thread 1what we thought might happen but id like to know what actual;y has happened.

I havnt kept up with running my cap this year for a few reasons. One of which was covid related (no way to join my local org till only this past month). Also I dont play official competitions anyway. But also I dont like the new system which imo was done mostly just to try to help eliminate sandbagging and also make it so more winners can come from the lower cap pools vs before. In the process imo all it did was hurt the mid and especially higher cappers by giving them a lower vanity cap vs before. And for one (like myself) that really only used the cap system as a self gauge, its only imo making it seem I am better than I really am. The opld system already only reflected our best but the new system took that imo a bit too far and now for me its just no longer as telling as before but instead too much a vanity cap. I dont want some false cap telling me Im a few strokes better than i actually am. So im just dont like it.

Assuming one is playing pretty much the same golf score wise ......I think the lower the cap one had before, the less movement they would see now, but the higher the cap was before , the more movement they would see now.

So I was curious for those with a significant enough rounds played and posted under the new system just how much did the cap (if at all) drop even while the scores have been basically the similar?
Or perhaps (due to covid) too many of us not yet have a significant enough amount of rounds posted to make much any difference in which case we really cant quite yet answer the question.

 

[Flipit]

No way to really know. I mean my HC is much lower but my game has improved. I’ve noticed it seems to go down quickly with a good score.

 

[Chef23]

It is hard for me to know. My handicap is lower but I am playing and practicing more so I can’t really give an accurate answer.

 

[OldandStiff]

I think with the same level of golf mine would be about the same as right after they made the change, which I think improved it by .6? Maybe just a little better, because the anti-sandbagger part works. It cuts faster than it rises in what seems like a noticeable way, to me. I have about 40 rounds of 18 in since our posting season opened, and outside of the course handicap calculations I've tried not to worry about it. Can't control any of it, so it just is.

 

[rollin]

I think with the same level of golf mine would be about the same as right after they made the change, which I think improved it by .6? Maybe just a little better, because the anti-sandbagger part works. It cuts faster than it rises in what seems like a noticeable way, to me. I have about 40 rounds of 18 in since our posting season opened, and outside of the course handicap calculations I've tried not to worry about it. Can't control any of it, so it just is.

But that very same concept is what imo also places caps of mid and especially higher players much more on the vanity side. So (as you put it) that "anti-sandbagger" part comes at the cost of hurting higher players. Im not so sure that part made any of it the correct thing to do.

But my reason for keeping a cap (one of the resons) was more for self evaluation and with the new one (as said) I dont like a false lower number. No longer as telling vs before cause it went a tad too far as for best potential.

 

[WMac19]

Mine has gone up. Because I've earned it.

 

[OldandStiff]

But that very same concept is what imo also places caps of mid and especially higher players much more on the vanity side. So (as you put it) that "anti-sandbagger" part comes at the cost of hurting higher players. Im not so sure that part made any of it the correct thing to do.

But my reason for keeping a cap (one of the resons) was more for self evaluation and with the new one (as said) I dont like a false lower number. No longer as telling vs before cause it went a tad too far as for best potential.

Well I'd love to run the numbers the old way and find out it'd be 4 points higher, but my guess is it would be less than 1, just like the change was for everybody when it went into effect. I think the vanity part will probably be more true if people truly regress. With a soft cap and 3 point hard cap making it slower to rise, someone not playing well for a while can really take it in the teeth. A lot harder for a nagging injury or life change to be reflected in a reasonable timeframe. If it's just to track progress I think you just need to take the start of this year as your baseline and go from there. I'm curious to hear how more of the higher caps view the effect it's had though.

edit: I kind of do want to run them the old way now, but I won't, for my own mental health.

 

[Tevenor]

Initially mine went up without playing a single round. 9.5 up to 9.8. But now I am down to 7.7, not because of the WHS but because I am playing better. Its interesting that hte GHIN results update within 24 hours so you can see how what you shot yesterday impacted your cap.

 

[BigMac]

62 rounds so far this year, and my handicap has gone up slightly (owing to some erratic play).

When the new system first came into use, I think my HC rose a fraction of a stroke - 0.4 or 0.6, something like that. I don't see how it can have an adverse affect upon mid/high handicappers, as everybody is playing/scoring under the same system - if a mid/high handicapper's index went down, a low handicapper's would have also done so accordingly.

 

[Daddio]

Initially mine went up without playing a single round. 9.5 up to 9.8. But now I am down to 7.7, not because of the WHS but because I am playing better. Its interesting that hte GHIN results update within 24 hours so you can see how what you shot yesterday impacted your cap.

Pretty much the same. Mine initially went up 0.2 points higher with zero new scores from 2020 being entered.

 

[rollin]

62 rounds so far this year, and my handicap has gone up slightly (owing to some erratic play).

When the new system first came into use, I think my HC dropped a fraction of a stroke - 0.4 or 0.6, something like that. I don't see how it can have an adverse affect upon mid/high handicappers, as everybody is playing/scoring under the same system - if a mid/high handicapper's index went down, a low handicapper's would have also done so accordingly.

Yea but the more erratic scoring of higher cappers is what does it. That also worked that way under the old system. I mean the systems....old or new....are about registering us at our best potential. The higher the caps the greater the difference between what the player averages score wise and the actual cap number. Higher cappers always averaged scores further from thier cap than lower cap players. Thats the whole idea of a hc system which reflects ones best potential. Thats sort of a default and is what makes the system work. However, the new system does this a bit more and perhaps a bit too much. Thats exactly what is about the new system which helps (somewhat better) at preventing sandbagging or trying to. So its that very essence of the system which also creates a greater vanity cap for the mid and higher player than the old system did.

I mean just using 8 scores instead of 10 does this on its own to some degree especially with the more erratic scoring of higher cappers. The system now also has a built in mechanism which does not allow quick movement upwards. And max score is also different. In one sense they basically reworked the old ESC system and added newer ways for the higher capper to eliminate a greater percentage of his poorer play fro his cap. That player (if with very similar scores) should then be lower cap vs before. Thats what the system does in its intent to help battle some the sandbagging. Its that very thing that then lowers the caps of higher players more than the old system did.

 

[BigMac]

The USGA cares more about preventing sandbagging than they do about vanity handicaps. If a guy wants to claim he's a 9 when he's actually a 15, he's only hurting himself if he ever competes in any kind of handicapped competition, so that's on him. They care about the 5 handicaps who will jack it up to a 12 before a competition to gain an unfair advantage - the soft and hard caps in the new system prevent that from happening to a much larger extent. I know one guy who plays competitive golf, and I've seen him not enter the occasional rounds when he goes low, to keep his 'cap from dropping. He won't purposely shoot high rounds to jack it up, but he certainly will hold out the low ones to keep it where it is.

I don't compete (except for the occasional small-stakes gambling in a Men's Club round), so I really don't care much about how the new system affects my cap. If I end up a fraction of a stroke lower than I would have under the old system, it is what it is. It's not like the new system suddenly dropped everybody's handicap by 3-4 strokes. I was up and down anywhere between a 17 and 19 under the old system, I've been up and down anywhere between a 17 and 19 under the new system.

 

[BigMac]

The new ESC did change things, but it still takes handicap into account. I can take a 6 on a par 3 (net double), whereas I could have taken a 7 under the old system (max 7 on any hole for my index). But a higher handicap will still be able to take a 7 for his net double, and a lower handicap may only be able to take a 5 - which would have been the same for him under the old system, where double bogey was the max score for lower 'caps.

 

[blueonblack]

I'm still a ten, ladies.
Golf? No idea. Who needs that stress?

 

[Flipit]

I’m at 12.7 down from 16 in January. If I play to my HC I will be at or with in a stroke of my PB round. That said I’m in the 80’s more often than not now. If I don’t make stupid mistakes and I putt as I can I’m capable to a low 80’s round. I think the idea of the HC system is capability. Since I play for enjoyment it’s really just a measuring device on my improving or not. If I remember correctly it went down .3 when the system changed.

 

[DataDude]

My current handicap is a 14.5. If I averaged the best 10 of my last 20 rounds instead of the best 8 it would be 15.17.

To calculate do this:

Handicap ×8

Add the handicap differential of your next 2 best rounds to that number.

Divide that total by 10.

Voila! You have your handicap under the old system more or less.

 

[Luchnia]

I am currently at 16 with all of my last 20 or so rounds counted. Not sure as far as the WHCP. My cap is lower because I have worked my rear off trying to get better. Trying now to get down closer to 10 which is really hard, but for someone at 65 that has only played this game about a year and a half, I am happy with my improvements.

 

[rollin]

The USGA cares more about preventing sandbagging than they do about vanity handicaps. If a guy wants to claim he's a 9 when he's actually a 15, he's only hurting himself if he ever competes in any kind of handicapped competition, so that's on him. They care about the 5 handicaps who will jack it up to a 12 before a competition to gain an unfair advantage - the soft and hard caps in the new system prevent that from happening to a much larger extent. I know one guy who plays competitive golf, and I've seen him not enter the occasional rounds when he goes low, to keep his 'cap from dropping. He won't purposely shoot high rounds to jack it up, but he certainly will hold out the low ones to keep it where it is.

I don't compete (except for the occasional small-stakes gambling in a Men's Club round), so I really don't care much about how the new system affects my cap. If I end up a fraction of a stroke lower than I would have under the old system, it is what it is. It's not like the new system suddenly dropped everybody's handicap by 3-4 strokes. I was up and down anywhere between a 17 and 19 under the old system, I've been up and down anywhere between a 17 and 19 under the new system.

I dint know for sure at all but i dont think its the 5 cappers bagging there way up to being a 12 that is the concern. That i would think is far too obvious.
id say its more the 10 bagging his was to a 13 or the 5 bagging his way to a 7 or the 14 bagging his way to an 18. But what do i really know maybe it is the 5 becoming a magic 12. Sounds too much too me but IDK.

I think the mechanism which sheilds better against the bagging is the very same thing that lowers the caps of the higher players and does so more than the lower players. Im just not seeing any real telling trend in this thread so far. it seems many are not yet enough rounds or are not really scoring very similarly so there isnt enough body of work yet. .

 

[rollin]

My current handicap is a 14.5. If I averaged the best 10 of my last 20 rounds instead of the best 8 it would be 15.17.

To calculate do this:

Handicap ×8

Add the handicap differential of your next 2 best rounds to that number.

Divide that total by 10.

Voila! You have your handicap under the old system more or less.

and so as (what id call a mid/high capper) your cap came down a point or better. Thats isnt nothing and two points I can add to this. Firstlly is to say (or to ask) if your more a consistent steady 15 capper or more the wild willy (feast./famine) type? cause one of the feast/famine type would likely see the cap drop more than yours did. And the other point being a higher capper (lets say an 18 or so) combined with being more feast/famine type of golf and they could be seeing a 3 point drop. seems very possible and even likely.

 

[DataDude]

and so as (what id call a mid/high capper) your cap came down a point or better. Thats isnt nothing and two points I can add to this. Firstlly is to say (or to ask) if your more a consistent steady 15 capper or more the wild willy (feast./famine) type? cause one of the feast/famine type would likely see the cap drop more than yours did. And the other point being a higher capper (lets say an 18 or so) combined with being more feast/famine type of golf and they could be seeing a 3 point drop. seems very possible and even likely.

18 of my 20 scores are between 85 and 95. The other 2 are an 82 and a 100. So I am pretty consistently ok. In fact when people ask me how good I am I always say I am the OK'est golfer in the world.

 

[GoldenBuff]

I post every score, good, bad, ugly. My cap dropped a lot under the new system. 12.6 to 6.5. However the 12.6 was from 2018 and the highest of that season (did not post scores for hc in 2019). My game has improved, and I expected my hc to be lower before the season started. I do feel like 6.5 is lower than it should be. A few good rounds seems to over bias the calculation. After a few more recent scores process, I should see that move back up a bit. I haven’t played as well lately as I did earlier this season.

 

[wubears71]

My handicap moved up from a 7 to a 10.1. A lot of it has to do with being able to take triple bogeys on some holes instead of max double ESC. But it’s been a gradual rise this year Unlike previously where my handicap looked like a rollercoaster.

 

[ddstanford]

I have gone from 12 to 9, not surprising as my new clubs have improved my game as has my practice. Is this system more favorable for lowering my index? It seems pretty similar to the old system (I hadn't played for 13 years) as one fantastic score tends to lower you more than a few mediocre scores will elevate it.

 

[rollin]

My handicap moved up from a 7 to a 10.1. A lot of it has to do with being able to take triple bogeys on some holes instead of max double ESC. But it’s been a gradual rise this year Unlike previously where my handicap looked like a rollercoaster.

the new system should allow a cap to come dwon easier but not rise as fast. Yove risen 3 points i can only assume even besides the triples yopur simply not paying as well. Or better said not really shooting the same scores yet this year. If you were you should seen it drop at least a little but not go up by 3 points. That just doesnt sound right if your scores are the same.

 

[wubears71]

the new system should allow a cap to come dwon easier but not rise as fast. Yove risen 3 points i can only assume even besides the triples yopur simply not paying as well. Or better said not really shooting the same scores yet this year. If you were you should seen it drop at least a little but not go up by 3 points. That just doesnt sound right if your scores are the same.

It is what it is. But 2 months of posting 85-86 will do that. The only difference i see is the triples - scores before esc have been similar. But i do post on average 3 scores per week.