Ball/Spin Question for Mid-Speed Players

[DataDude]

Meh I would say he needs more launch then anything but that is just my opinion.

I would try the -ProV1X. Sounds like exactly what you're looking for. Lower spinning and similar launching compared to a ProV1X.

 

[DataDude]

I would recommend working on his swing and delivery as changing that slightly would more likely yield better results in terms of distance, assuming he is still able to control the ball

I also agree with this, especially since he is low spin with irons. A slight adjustment to the driver swing to increase dynamic loft would fix all this.

 

[Stryker]

Clearly the launch angle is too low and the spin rate is too high. I'm also curious about smash factor.

This right here. Smash Factor is pretty low if he is 100mph club head speed but only 135 ball speed.

 

[Kenomikes]

I'd give the ProV1 a test, lower spinning and see what happens.

 

[Jman]

I have a couple kids just like this on my team. I fit both to the Tour B RX. Perfect for what you want off the tee but the new version keeps the action you want to see into greens and off irons. It’s the ball.

 

[-CRW-]

This right here. Smash Factor is pretty low if he is 100mph club head speed but only 135 ball speed.

Sorry for any confusion, but those numbers in the GC2 picture were with his current driver (TS2).

His fitted driver was 102 club/150 ball and 1.47 smash factor on average. That’s leaving a little on the table, but not much.

 

[-CRW-]

I would try the -ProV1X. Sounds like exactly what you're looking for. Lower spinning and similar launching compared to a ProV1X.

I also agree with this, especially since he is low spin with irons. A slight adjustment to the driver swing to increase dynamic loft would fix all this.

My concern with the Left - is if compression is the issue, it should be worse with the Left - since it’s even firmer.

And dynamic loft alone, absent an increase in AOA, will increase spin loft and the resulting spin. We will have to continue testing with the club head a little behind the ball as opposed to right up against it to increase dynamic loft, launch, and AOA.

He hits more than the tour average for fairways, and is probably close to the leader in FH. He’s not always near the tour average for GIRs and loses the most strokes from missed greens. So I think from a data perspective he needs to give up some fairways to gain some distance with the thought of it resulting in more greens. Ultimately resulting in lower scores.

And I know he’s nowhere near a tour player, but those metrics are available so they are easy to use to see where improvement can be made scoring-wise.

 

[-CRW-]

Yeah, this is where I am too. Frankly, at your son's SS an optimized result would produce about 290 yard drives. So, there seems to be two possibilities. 1. The fitter did not optimize the shaft and clubhead or 2. Your son needs to adjust his swing to produce optimal results.

As others have mentioned a ball change just won't cut it.

Clearly the launch angle is too low and the spin rate is too high. I'm also curious about smash factor.

There is nowhere in our area we’ve played where I’ve seen 54 yards of rollout. I think the best he could hope for is the 239 carry on the total optimizer with maybe 20 yards of rollout.

In other words, I don’t think the Total Optimizer is a good reference for him other than the carry numbers. And I think to achieve that at 1800 spin, you give up a lot of security/safety from spin and may see too many missed fairways or badly missed fairways.

 

[Stryker]

There is nowhere in our area we’ve played where I’ve seen 54 yards of rollout. I think the best he could hope for is the 239 carry on the total optimizer with maybe 20 yards of rollout.

In other words, I don’t think the Total Optimizer is a good reference for him other than the carry numbers. And I think to achieve that at 1800 spin, you give up a lot of security/safety from spin and may see too many missed fairways or badly missed fairways.

He can do better. I was at a fitting a couple weeks ago with a trackman. My speeds were down from swinging irons for an hour prior to picking up a driver and that left me just a little shy of his 101 where I am usually more like 105. I was seeing 275 carry. That was pretty optimized though. Launch at 12* 2600 spin smash factors 1.49-1.50. He can do fine dropping a few hundred RPM spin, getting a better launch, and a high smash factor. All those hits btw were dead nuts straight to maybe a 5yard fade.

 

[-CRW-]

He can do better. I was at a fitting a couple weeks ago with a trackman. My speeds were down from swinging irons for an hour prior to picking up a driver and that left me just a little shy of his 101 where I am usually more like 105. I was seeing 275 carry. That was pretty optimized though. Launch at 12* 2600 spin smash factors 1.49-1.50. He can do fine dropping a few hundred RPM spin, getting a better launch, and a high smash factor. All those hits btw were dead nuts straight to maybe a 5yard fade.

Are you at any significant elevation? At sea level, 101 club speed at 1.5 smash/151.2 ball speed, 12* LA, 2600 rpm, results in about 245 carry. Maybe 275 total if the ground was firm.

You would approach 270 carry at 105 club speed, 1.5 smash, 157 ball speed, and just under 2600 rpm.

 

[Stryker]

Are you at any significant elevation? At sea level, 101 club speed at 1.5 smash/151.2 ball speed, 12* LA, 2600 rpm, results in about 245 carry. Maybe 275 total if the ground was firm.

You would approach 270 carry at 105 club speed, 1.5 smash, 157 ball speed, and just under 2600 rpm.

I wouldn’t call it significant elevation but higher then sea level. I know what I see on the course and of course what the trackman showed though

 

[Chef23]

ProV1X is the higher spinning ball, at least off irons. Not sure about driver. You can try the ProV1 or ProV1X Left dash and see what happens.

I did a ball fitting with Titleist last year using a Trackman and Titleist fits the ball to the irons. Their position is that the ball spin impact of different balls on the driver is negligible. To prove it at the end they had me hit drivers with the ProV1, V1X and the AVX and there weren't major differences in spin off the driver.

 

[TheDoctor]

He definitely has potential for improvement if he can improve his delivery and launch numbers - I am swinging a good bit slower than his speed and seeing almost as much distance

I played yesterday and a playing partner lasered a bunker at 230yds to the hump at the back of it and my ball landed on that slope - this was on a flat hole (I was intending to be about 10yds right of it to miss it completely but that didn't go according to plan)

 

[-CRW-]

I did a ball fitting with Titleist last year using a Trackman and Titleist fits the ball to the irons. Their position is that the ball spin impact of different balls on the driver is negligible. To prove it at the end they had me hit drivers with the ProV1, V1X and the AVX and there weren't major differences in spin off the driver.

I think that only applies to balls intended to perform similarly. Otherwise, why would they make/offer the left- version of theV1x?

 

[DataDude]

I think that only applies to balls intended to perform similarly. Otherwise, why would they make/offer the left- version of theV1x?

Doesn't this show exactly what you are wanting for your son from a ball?

 

[-CRW-]

Doesn't this show exactly what you are wanting for your son from a ball?

Yes, assuming compression won’t be an issue. I was just responding to the proposed Titleist premise that balls are always negligibly different in spin off the tee.

 

[-CRW-]

I wouldn’t call it significant elevation but higher then sea level. I know what I see on the course and of course what the trackman showed though

What ball where you hitting? Or what balls do you generally see better performance out of with your swing?

 

[Desmond]

I did a ball fitting with Titleist last year using a Trackman and Titleist fits the ball to the irons. Their position is that the ball spin impact of different balls on the driver is negligible. To prove it at the end they had me hit drivers with the ProV1, V1X and the AVX and there weren't major differences in spin off the driver.

That's why I said "not sure about the driver." But then look at the Titleist website. lol

 

[DataDude]

Yes, assuming compression won’t be an issue. I was just responding to the proposed Titleist premise that balls are always negligibly different in spin off the tee.

The good news is with his consistency you should be able to test balls very quickly to find out what is working and what is not.

 

[Stryker]

What ball where you hitting? Or what balls do you generally see better performance out of with your swing?

I typically hit Z-Stars. I can’t remember what they had at the fitting.