Bend The Lead Arm For More Clubhead Speed?

[WILDTHING]

This is a facebook video for 'Me and My Golf' with 'Titleist Performance Institute ' co-founder Dave Phillips . They have this database with all the 3D graphs of many golfers (amateurs, PGA Tour, Long Drivers , etc).

I've always wondered why I never bent my left arm (being so inflexible) because it was never mentioned in golf instruction , but here we have someone using 3D technology advocating it .

So the lifting of the lead heel and bending of the knee behind the ball plus the bending of the lead arm will increase clubhead speed (not sure how this would affect the squaring of the clubface for accuracy). Maybe having a very strong grip (which limits the rotation aspect of your forearm in the downswing) while doing all the latter will help with the club squaring issue .

They do mention experimenting with ball position and height while doing all these changes , so I might give it a go.

 

[Luchnia]

It is like most anything with the swing, what works for one might be totally different for another. As some posters comment, do what works for you.

 

[DataDude]

I try not to think too.much about small details like that. A free and easy swing will surely have some left arm bend. A tense mechanical swing might not. Free and easy generally produces better golf shots so this isn't really surprising.

 

[G-Man]

This is interesting... I went through online lessons and we eliminated this move to gain more accuracy and length on shots. This elimination/change is working for me.

 

[WILDTHING]

This is interesting... I went through online lessons and we eliminated this move to gain more accuracy and length on shots. This elimination/change is working for me.

Maybe you are able to pivot quite well, but bending your lead arm stopped you from using your pivot and cocking your wrists in some optimal manner. Removing the bent left arm forced you to use your pivot and wrist cock better.

 

[The Milk Man]

None of what he has said is revolutionary. Also I would not say he advocated for these changes. More if you struggle with turn or struggle to get in a good position at the top . Here are some things you could try.

 

[WILDTHING]

None of what he has said is revolutionary. Also I would not say he advocated for these changes. More if you struggle with turn or struggle to get in a good position at the top . Here are some things you could try.

Agreed- really for those with injury or have problems pivoting their torso or raising their arms.

 

[WILDTHING]

Here's a few extracts from a research article 'Was Vardon Right'

[PDF] Was Vardon Right | Semantic Scholar

Following a personal experience of the beneficial effects of using the "Vardon Swing" in golf, the author has provided an analytical verification of the superiority of such an approach. The method used is essentially that due to M. Aicardi (3) however, the implementation using a more classical...

www.semanticscholar.org

Some surprising 'theoretical' results on increased clubhead speed with a bent lead arm.

 

[Hamfist]

I have a regular playing partner whose left arm is bent at a 90 degree angle, and he still hits it far. But, he's been using the same swing for 40 years now, so, he's got it pretty much grooved. I'd say you'd better have good hands if you are going to play this.

 

[ShootzGolf]

I've been bending my lead arm my whole life. Straightened it this year. Way more consistent. I haven't lost any yardage. You use your body turn more with a straight arm.

 

[tahoebum]

I've always had a bend in my left arm especially with the woods and tried to change it for decades with no luck. It makes my swing less pretty but I'm too old and lazy to work on changing any of my mechanics and what I'm doing is allowing me to average 14+ GIR each round so I'm leaving it alone. At age 55 I can carry my driver 250 and my weak lofted 5 iron 195 so I'm plenty long. I just need to putt better.

 

[jpotas]

Here's a few extracts from a research article 'Was Vardon Right'

[PDF] Was Vardon Right | Semantic Scholar

Following a personal experience of the beneficial effects of using the "Vardon Swing" in golf, the author has provided an analytical verification of the superiority of such an approach. The method used is essentially that due to M. Aicardi (3) however, the implementation using a more classical...

www.semanticscholar.org

Some surprising 'theoretical' results on increased clubhead speed with a bent lead arm.

View attachment 8952562

View attachment 8952563

This makes perfect sense because the club head has to move farther in the same amount of time if it is going to strike the ball when the elbow and hands return to the bottom of the swing, this of course means more speed. Control is the key, and I know I can't do it. Body rotation and a bent elbow would theoretically create the most speed but I would spray the ball all over the place.

 

[Tevenor]

Oddly enough I have been actively trying to get away from the slightly bent elbow as I couldn't get the timing right and leverage better wrist hinge position ( less cupping, more pronation ) to get the width/length of the backswing. Although one less hinge point as the video above shows, it did allow me to simply the number of movements in my swing to try to keep control and start hitting straighter. You can see the change in the screenshots from a couple of videos of my swing. End result, higher hands, straighter left arm but more rotation and better accuracy.

Me at the distance bash in Feb. vs Me last week.

 

[WILDTHING]

Yes, its just another extra complicated timing issue when one has an extra hinge. Maybe more speed but timing the 'release' so that the clubhead peaks near the ball might be very difficult to master.

 

[Luchnia]

I really don't put much thought into this type of thing anymore. I have found for me that it is way too much mind clutter and can be distractions to what is important. My concept is strike/contact the same as address and make sure the velocity is there at that point. I can swing the club plenty fast for my age at close to 100, so return to address position and target based golf really works best for me. The rest just falls into place.

I was noticing today while browsing youtube how some prominent pro instructors teach contrary to one another. One says start the swing with the arms and yet another one says start the swing with the body. Amazing how they can be so different in their instruction to attempt to obtain the same end state.

Ultimately it boils down to ball contact at club head speed and force. Amazing how simple it really is. Where the challenge is for the human to make that happen repeatedly well.

 

[The Milk Man]

I really don't put much thought into this type of thing anymore. I have found for me that it is way too much mind clutter and can be distractions to what is important. My concept is strike/contact the same as address and make sure the velocity is there at that point. I can swing the club plenty fast for my age at close to 100, so return to address position and target based golf really works best for me. The rest just falls into place.

I was noticing today while browsing youtube how some prominent pro instructors teach contrary to one another. One says start the swing with the arms and yet another one says start the swing with the body. Amazing how they can be so different in their instruction to attempt to obtain the same end state.

Ultimately it boils down to ball contact at club head speed and force. Amazing how simple it really is. Where the challenge is for the human to make that happen repeatedly well.

The problem with youtube lessons IMO is you don't know the context of what is being said. As an example if you were to sit in on one of my lessons. You would hear my instructor and I talk about keeping my head down thru the swing. Many instructors and people in this forum would say that is terrible advice. The context behind keep your head down, is the death move for me is my front shoulder flying open. When I feel like I keep my head down thru the swing it keeps my front shoulder from flying open. So I can text him a video of my swing and if responds with keep your head down. I know my front shoulder is flying open and what to do to fix it. That cue works for me. Does he give that same cue to other students no, he gives them a cue that works for them.

 

[WILDTHING]

I really don't put much thought into this type of thing anymore. I have found for me that it is way too much mind clutter and can be distractions to what is important. My concept is strike/contact the same as address and make sure the velocity is there at that point. I can swing the club plenty fast for my age at close to 100, so return to address position and target based golf really works best for me. The rest just falls into place.

I was noticing today while browsing youtube how some prominent pro instructors teach contrary to one another. One says start the swing with the arms and yet another one says start the swing with the body. Amazing how they can be so different in their instruction to attempt to obtain the same end state.

Ultimately it boils down to ball contact at club head speed and force. Amazing how simple it really is. Where the challenge is for the human to make that happen repeatedly well.

I also use target based golf (external focus cues) and won't go back to positions , etc . Although I'd like to understand the reasoning behind swing techniques if at all possible (ie. the kinetics and the kinematics). If we knew for certain any 'generic physics' that Tour Pro's are doing , then instruction might be less diverse and have an objective proven by facts.

What I don't particularly like is golf instruction that embellish and sell their product by cherry picking selected research data (as if they have found the 'secret').

You normally see statements in their marketing like :

"Physics has proven this or that"
" Our medical experts have proven this or that"

 

[Luchnia]

I also use target based golf (external focus cues) and won't go back to positions , etc . Although I'd like to understand the reasoning behind swing techniques if at all possible (ie. the kinetics and the kinematics). If we knew for certain any 'generic physics' that Tour Pro's are doing , then instruction might be less diverse and have an objective proven by facts.

I am sure there are some basic physics as with any circular motion swinging something and there probably are certain facts that will surface, although it might not be that the pros have found it other than good practice, development training, and consistent ball striking to develop what works for them. BTW, I find this to be an intriguing topic.

You may find a lot of variation in analyzing great players. Just take Moe Norman (probably best ball striker ever - could hit balls of a soda bottle and not break it). Once asked about how long he had the tee he was using and he said he had it about seven years. Look at Dustin Johnson, Rory, Matt Wolf, Greg Norman, and Bryson. Except for Bryson and Moe the swings of the others have some differences, yet they obtain similar results because of the impact area.

Bryson has basically become a bulked up Moe Norman. If Moe had of had Bryson's new found strength he would have easily hit balls near as long or much longer than Bryson just because Moe's swing was mostly machine precision and his accuracy was nothing short of astounding.

About 6-8 months ago I spent a lot of time studying good players and watched every video I could find. The one thing I found that stood out as a common denominator was that they each hit kazillions of golf balls from every possible way a golf ball could be hit. For instance, Moe hit a claimed 800-1500 a day. It was even said he did this in adverse conditions. He broke some record hitting about 1500 balls in so many hours in one day. Don't recall exactly, but point is, it was a lot.

One article commented that Rory hit about a 1.2 million balls in one year, and so on it goes. These are claimed numbers of course, but gives us an idea. I wasn't there to count them so I can't prove it, yet it does indicate that a huge amount of golf balls are hit by these guys. In my little mediocre circle, I have hit well over 5000 balls since January 2020 on my launch sim into my net, not to count all the rounds of golf (2-3 a week), and a number of range sessions, as well as chipping and putting sessions and that has taught me some things abount learned behavior even if the swing ain't perfect.

If I remember correctly, a reporter once asked Greg Norman in an interview how he learned to do xyz with certain clubs and Greg said that he hit about 10,000 balls to get it down. Then another 10,000 more for the next thing he was trying to get right, and so on. He indicated it took him around 10,000 balls to refine a hit. Hitting that many balls would probably even dial in a truly bad swing, if there is such a thing. After all, who determines what is a good or bad swing?

I remember some months back being paired up and playing with two guys I did not know. One of the guys had the most bizarre swing I think I have ever seen and the first few times, my mind was saying this guy is going to be in the woods, ponds, all the hazards all day, but the thing is he knew the swing well and knew how to make it work for him and you could tell his game was very nice. I don't think he hit an OB the entire round. I asked him how long he had played that way and he said about 15 years.

 

[Chef23]

I used to have some bend in my left arm and had good distance and was a good player. I used to at times almost bounce the club off my neck. The downside always was that I had to play a lot to have any consistency because the timing was very important. I used to at times almost bounce the club off my neck. I am shorter now but more consistent.

If you play a lot you may be able to pick up some length. I think most people are more likely to be more consistent without the bend in their left arm.

 

[RayG]

Who cares? The most important part of the swing is the moment of contact. Some of the swings on tour would give Hogan fits if just looked at a with short glance. Once he saw their impact position, he would certainly figure what they’re doing right to get there. You can be free and easy with a straight, flexed or bent lead arm IF you feel it as a natural part of YOUR swing. Forcing any of one of those positions lead to tension and loss of speed.