Bifurcation of the Rules

[fuffle master]

Reading these posts I have been swayed a bit. True we already have a bifurcation of the rules now in a sense by how one plays. Yep, I play with and say that’s good inside three feet. I don’t play stroke and distance most of the time (tournaments will make you). Of course most of us use a cart. Now, that I have Arccos, my phone tells me play like distances and I can adjust. And so forth. So, bifurcation is something to consider.

 

[Nerdy]

I think most of us play by our own set of rules when playing with friends anyway. We are playing for fun most of the time, so there are definitely rules that are bent in the spirit of having a good time. Tournaments are obviously a different animal and I would expect the rules to be strictly enforced.

 

[tahoebum]

Yeah that is why I asked. Some of the info used by these places is technically accurate, but not really applicable in my opinion.
For instance 25 million golfers is super inflated. Yes there were 25 million golfers, but not all of those play regular golf if that makes sense. Many say cut that number by way more than half.

Then add in the number of options that exist through technology for a handicap now, that is not through the USGA. Most USGA handicaps are done through club membership according to them, where as more golfers play outside of that segment.

The data is very skewed. Here is a fun stat from 2016 Conversely, avid golfers make up just 26% of all players but they play 76% of all rounds.

It makes sense that 26% of the golfers play 76% of the rounds. I’ve played golf for 41 years and have a lot of variety in where and who I’ve played with. I’ve done high school golf, college golf, and a little state/local amateur golf. I’ve had private memberships but played from age 26 through age 44 with no membership - just lots of public golf from cheap munis to high end resort courses. I will stand by my estimate that there are less than half a million golfers that play strictly by the rules. I know a lot of guys - more than half the avid golfers I know that also don’t record all their rounds. Some of the golfers I know only record 50% or less of their rounds including some of my son’s buddies who play college golf that record less than 10 rounds each year which is less than 10% of what they play. I looked up my wife’s boss on GHIN last week to see what his index was. He is a super avid golfer and is a member at the most exclusive club in MN and his last 20 rounds recorded go back to 2017. He plays about 50 rounds a year but he wouldn’t show up with USGA index stats as an avid golfer. I was talking with one of the long time assistant pros at our club yesterday and his goal every year is to play 20 rounds and last year he didn’t meet that goal.

I would guess that most of the guys I know that play strictly by the rules are either low single digits, competitive amateurs such as college players, or grew up playing golf and simply like to play by a defined set of rules because that’s how they learned the game. If we have bifurcation, most of them would choose to play by the rules that the PGA Tour pro’s play by. I would certainly be one of them whether that meant a limit on driver clubhead size or CORE limitation or a different ball. I don’t think either will ever happen but if they did I’d be happy to go back to a 200cc driver or ball that flew shorter. I did that for the first couple decades I played and the game was just as fun. Who knows, as I age I might decide to go old school and play most of my golf with hickory shafts. Both of the times I’ve done that they’ve been some of the most fun rounds of my entire season.

Everyone should play the game they enjoy by whatever rules they want. If free/liberal drops, mulligans, and gimmies make you happy, go for it. You’ll have a ton of company.

 

[JB]

It makes sense that 26% of the golfers play 76% of the rounds. I’ve played golf for 41 years and have a lot of variety in where and who I’ve played with. I’ve done high school golf, college golf, and a little state/local amateur golf. I’ve had private memberships but played from age 26 through age 44 with no membership - just lots of public golf from cheap munis to high end resort courses. I will stand by my estimate that there are less than half a million golfers that play strictly by the rules. I know a lot of guys - more than half the avid golfers I know that also don’t record all their rounds. Some of the golfers I know only record 50% or less of their rounds including some of my son’s buddies who play college golf that record less than 10 rounds each year which is less than 10% of what they play. I looked up my wife’s boss on GHIN last week to see what his index was. He is a super avid golfer and is a member at the most exclusive club in MN and his last 20 rounds recorded go back to 2017. He plays about 50 rounds a year but he wouldn’t show up with USGA index stats as an avid golfer. I was talking with one of the long time assistant pros at our club yesterday and his goal every year is to play 20 rounds and last year he didn’t meet that goal.

I would guess that most of the guys I know that play strictly by the rules are either low single digits, competitive amateurs such as college players, or grew up playing golf and simply like to play by a defined set of rules because that’s how they learned the game. If we have bifurcation, most of them would choose to play by the rules that the PGA Tour pro’s play by. I would certainly be one of them whether that meant a limit on driver clubhead size or CORE limitation or a different ball. I don’t think either will ever happen but if they did I’d be happy to go back to a 200cc driver or ball that flew shorter. I did that for the first couple decades I played and the game was just as fun. Who knows, as I age I might decide to go old school and play most of my golf with hickory shafts. Both of the times I’ve done that they’ve been some of the most fun rounds of my entire season.

Everyone should play the game they enjoy by whatever rules they want. If free/liberal drops, mulligans, and gimmies make you happy, go for it.

That completely furthers my point that bifurcation should exist.
It exists in some form or fashion in nearly every major sport and while I agree golf is different, we are not playing the same game nor on the same courses as the top 100 players in the world that these rules (especially equipment) are put in place for.

 

[tahoebum]

That completely furthers my point that bifurcation should exist.
It exists in some form or fashion in nearly every major sport and while I agree golf is different, we are not playing the same game nor on the same courses as the top 100 players in the world that these rules (especially equipment) are put in place for.

I agree in principal but the devil is in the details and my guess is the club and ball manufactures will have an army of lawyers suing the hell out of the USGA. It would take decades for it to be settled in court. There are so many different balls played on Tour what incentive would the ball manufactures have to design a bunch of different balls that they just give away to the PGA Pro’s. There would be a very small market for those limited flight balls. Just some guys like me.

If they roll the ball back we will have these Tournament tee’s that places like Augusta can reclaim and just replant trees and flowers I guess. Or maybe the great courses that host PGA events and state/local amateur events have to keep the tees for college, local and amateur tournaments?? It’s not a simple solution.

 

[JB]

I agree in principal but the devil is in the details and my guess is the club and ball manufactures will have an army of lawyers suing the hell out of the USGA. It would take decades for it to be settled in court. There are so many different balls played on Tour what incentive would the ball manufactures have to design a bunch of different balls that they just give away to the PGA Pro’s. There would be a very small market for those limited flight balls. Just some guys like me.

I strongly disagree with this.
And bifurcation doesn't immediately mean every piece of equipment is open to new rules. But if you wanted to include the ball, freeze it for tour players and then allow further technology for amateurs.

To use equipment as an example, there is absolutely no reason at all that the groove rule should be in place for amateurs. There is no reason at all the belly putter should have been banned for amateurs. These were knee jerk reactions by a tired, but trying organization to penalize the best 100 players in the world.

 

[Jmk202]

100%, for example almost no amateur golfer needs to play the OB or Lost ball penalties that exist from the pros. Stroke and distance is incredibly sever especially since we don't have galleries watching our shots helping us locate wayward balls. Even if you want to keep a 2 stroke penalty (I don't see the point) we should never be sending amateurs back to re-tee!

 

[chile]

i am still so new that learning the rules has taken a back seat to working on playing...i think this is how it is with most folks but it does make for awkward moments when you get paired with folks well acquainted with the rules (not that i have but i do have a buddy that is and he "mentors" our faux pas when we play together)...that being said, i think trimming down an amateur version would be good...

 

[tahoebum]

I strongly disagree with this.
And bifurcation doesn't immediately mean every piece of equipment is open to new rules. But if you wanted to include the ball, freeze it for tour players and then allow further technology for amateurs.

To use equipment as an example, there is absolutely no reason at all that the groove rule should be in place for amateurs. There is no reason at all the belly putter should have been banned for amateurs. These were knee jerk reactions by a tired, but trying organization to penalize the best 100 players in the world.

The ball is frozen and PGA Tour driving distance jumped after the ProV1 came out two decades ago and is only up 10 yards since. Certainly fitness, shaft tech, clubhead design, and launch monitors contributed to that 10 yard increase. The NFL players are bigger, fitter, and faster than twenty years ago and so are the pro golfers.

On the groove and anchoring rule I totally agree. I have illegal wedges from Ping and honestly they aren’t much different out the rough. There is no reason that anchoring was allowed for 50 years and then banned. There are a handful of older guys at our club that still anchor to the chest with a long putter which I love.

 

[JB]

The ball is frozen and PGA Tour driving distance jumped after the ProV1 came out two decades ago and is only up 10 yards since. Certainly fitness, shaft tech, clubhead design, and launch monitors contributed to that 10 yard increase. The NFL players are bigger, fitter, and faster than twenty years ago and so are the pro golfers.

On the groove and anchoring rule I totally agree. I have illegal wedges from Ping and honestly they aren’t much different out the rough. There is no reason that anchoring was allowed for 50 years and then banned. There are a handful of older guys at our club that still anchor to the chest with a long putter which I love.

The ball is absolutely not frozen. There are certain limits that exist, but the ball is definitely not frozen.

 

[golfinnut]

I also think the vast majority of golfers (excluding many on this forum) don’t really know or play by the rules right now. People fluff their lies, take mulligans, play white stakes as hazards, roll the ball in the fairway, don’t know where to drop when the ball goes in a water hazard, etc...

This is the issue in itself now. People play by their own rules anyway, yet still slow down the play. Even if a new set of rules were established for the amateurs, it probably wouldn't be followed to the letter anyway. Everyone would still play by their own rules. Yet all it takes is one group on the course that has to play from the tips (even though they can't hit it past the ladies tee), look for lost balls for eons, etc. to slow down the entire course.
I can almost guarantee you that any foursome on a weekend, who thinks they are playing everything by the rules, at some point during the round violated some rule is some way or fashion. Only because they don't know the rule book cover to cover. They don't have marshals out finding their balls & telling them where & how to drop. Simplifying the rules may help to an extent. Maybe narrow them down to a few main rules, just like the addendum to the stroke & distance rule.
Some players have two different handicaps .... one might be a 3 handicap by "his rules." But if he were to count all his strokes, drops, rolls in the fairway, move it out of the divot, out of a footprint in the bunker, etc. .... all by the "Real" Rules of Golf then he might be a 10 if he's lucky.
Point being, people already play by their own rules just in essence of speeding up play & to enjoy the game more. No one wants to be on the course for 6 hours & shoot 100. So yes .... by all means change the rules.

 

[Gyro25]

Tour players and tournaments, then amatuers

Tourneys would definitely need more structure and rules than casual rounds

 

[tahoebum]

F

The ball is absolutely not frozen. There are certain limits that exist, but the ball is definitely not frozen.

Not frozen but definitely refrigerated. How much of that 10 yard increase in PGA Tour driving distance since the ProV1 hit the market 20 years ago is due to ball vs. clubhead design, shaft, fitting, and fitness? I’m guessing maybe 5 yards is from the ball.

 

[Misike]

This is the issue in itself now. People play by their own rules anyway, yet still slow down the play. Even if a new set of rules were established for the amateurs, it probably wouldn't be followed to the letter anyway. Everyone would still play by their own rules. Yet all it takes is one group on the course that has to play from the tips (even though they can't hit it past the ladies tee), look for lost balls for eons, etc. to slow down the entire course.
I can almost guarantee you that any foursome on a weekend, who thinks they are playing everything by the rules, at some point during the round violated some rule is some way or fashion. Only because they don't know the rule book cover to cover. They don't have marshals out finding their balls & telling them where & how to drop. Simplifying the rules may help to an extent. Maybe narrow them down to a few main rules, just like the addendum to the stroke & distance rule.
Some players have two different handicaps .... one might be a 3 handicap by "his rules." But if he were to count all his strokes, drops, rolls in the fairway, move it out of the divot, out of a footprint in the bunker, etc. .... all by the "Real" Rules of Golf then he might be a 10 if he's lucky.
Point being, people already play by their own rules just in essence of speeding up play & to enjoy the game more. No one wants to be on the course for 6 hours & shoot 100. So yes .... by all means change the rules.

Im for bifurcation too. Just pointing out a lot won’t care or know either way. I do think it would be cool from the equipment sideof things, as well as making things better for those of us that do try to follow the rules (or most of them ). I’m not sure how much it would change pace of play overall, but who knows. Like you say, all it takes is one group to slow down an entire course. And that group could be slowing them down due to rules, or just due to the fact they are slow.

 

[JB]

F

Not frozen but definitely refrigerated. How much of that 10 yard increase in PGA Tour driving distance since the ProV1 hit the market 20 years ago is due to ball vs. clubhead design, shaft, fitting, and fitness? I’m guessing maybe 5 yards is from the ball.

Again, strongly disagree. The same barriers in the ball exist in every facet of equipment yet gains exist constantly.

Couple of notes on this.
The Pro V1 was not the first solid core ball. The distance came from going solid core, which was a Bridgestone/Precept product. The Pro V1 came later.
Distance at the highest level, does not mean the ball is frozen. Spin reduction, speed for moderate swings, etc all came with core technology and thinner covers. We will see products this coming year that have found even more speed for amateurs and more spin for everybody from multiple companies.

 

[PapaJohick]

Ive read through it a lot, but keep seeing posts about finding a way to apply it.

I feel like that's the easiest part.

Pro Rules:
Any professional tour,
USGA Elite Comps (US Am, Mid-Am, etc)
Qualifying events for and associated with Majors, USGA Elite Comps, Etc
College Play

Ametuar Rules:
Everything else including club championships and state events that do not qualify players for Elite competitions.

that pretty much covers it unless I am missing something big haha.

Now what those rules should be, many have come up with a lot of good ones. I do think equipment should be a part of that too, including the ball for the professionals.

 

[Scorp]

I'm an amateur. I'm always going to be an amateur. I will never be a professional golfer. The only thing I have in common with a golf pro is that I have human DNA. In some cases, that may not be the case (some of the golf pros seem superhuman. I think they may be robots.)

I lean towards rule simplification and bifurcation. Let the top golfers fight it out on 8,000 yard courses with 340 yard drives and short games that make a lot of us envious.

Let me use U grooved wedges.
Let me use a corked driver.
Let me use a ball that lets me drive the ball 250 yards instead of 210 on a good day.
Let me use every technology to my advantage.
Let me improve my lie without penalty.

Simplify the rules for amateurs.
1. Player must have fun playing the game.
2. If the player isn't having fun, the player should penalize theirself 1 storke, leave the course, and try again.
3. Player must use a club designed for golf.
4. Player must use a ball designed for golf.
5. Player must get ball in hole using club.

 

[Golf Ghost]

 

[IceyShanks]

I used to think golf should be played by the same for all, as a sport, but the more and more changes that seem to be made and do not help the average golfer, maybe even hurt your average hacker, seems like it should be different. Case in point, would someone using a belly putter at my home course, during a tournament really give them an unfair advantage, I just don't see it.

 

[jvbart]

Do you think with the vast amount of rules/decision, the game would be more inviting if they separated the rules a bit from tour players to amateurs? Arguably, the top 100 players in the world are the reason that many of the rules exist.

As social players my friends and I follow most major rules but don't get picky with the details. I like the idea of tournaments following the same rules as the pros but on a non competition round I say play whatever fits your game and keeps you playing FAST PACE.

 

[Canadan]

I am against bifurcation. That being said, I think it to an extent already exists. If you consider that the majority of people that golf neither keep a handicap or play the game as intended to begin with. Courses already have local rules they put I play, and we have the handicap system so that a 20 handicap can compete with a plus. What would more bifurcation accomplish?

I think the rules are one of the beautiful things about golf. They are complicated enough at times. No need to muddy the water more by making a second set of rules.

If you eliminate some of the silly stuff that makes golf less fun, you have an opportunity to make it more enjoyable to play anywhere. The rules of golf have changed dramatically from the original rules. Adapting to changing times is a natural thing, and will continue to happen.

Also, this isn't about muddying the water. The pros already experience a different golf course than most do.

 

[Canadan]

100%, for example almost no amateur golfer needs to play the OB or Lost ball penalties that exist from the pros. Stroke and distance is incredibly sever especially since we don't have galleries watching our shots helping us locate wayward balls. Even if you want to keep a 2 stroke penalty (I don't see the point) we should never be sending amateurs back to re-tee!

The best part about this, is how this rule has already been suggested as a local rule for courses to adopt. They are already making the necessary changes to make golf more enjoyable and eliminate a potential walk of shame that no one wants to do haha

 

[Templet0n]

If you eliminate some of the silly stuff that makes golf less fun, you have an opportunity to make it more enjoyable to play anywhere. The rules of golf have changed dramatically from the original rules. Adapting to changing times is a natural thing, and will continue to happen.

Also, this isn't about muddying the water. The pros already experience a different golf course than most do.

I guess, I would like to know what you consider "silly stuff". I am totally ok with adapting rules and allowing them to change over time. I don't really see them as playing a different course, as more of a course set up thing. If you want to have event rules for one thing or another? Fine, I am ok with that. But just have one set of rules.

I love that about golf. I, if given the chance, could play on same course with Brooks Koepka with the handicap system it is reasonable to say I have the potential to compete. In reality probably not, but you get my point. We play by the same set of rules.

 

[Canadan]

I guess, I would like to know what you consider "silly stuff". I am totally ok with adapting rules and allowing them to change over time. I don't really see them as playing a different course, as more of a course set up thing. If you want to have event rules for one thing or another? Fine, I am ok with that. But just have one set of rules.

I love that about golf. I, if given the chance, could play on same course with Brooks Koepka with the handicap system it is reasonable to say I have the potential to compete. In reality probably not, but you get my point. We play by the same set of rules.

Simple changes like the local adaptations suggested by USGA for OB or lost balls. Raking footprints and dropping from knee height in a bunker if a ball comes to rest in one. Playing out of a divot.

I'm sure there are a handful more but I don't have any more on hand right now.

 

[Templet0n]

The best part about this, is how this rule has already been suggested as a local rule for courses to adopt. They are already making the necessary changes to make golf more enjoyable and eliminate a potential walk of shame that no one wants to do haha

I agree this is a rules that should be changed, and changed for all. . It came into effect just last week at a pro event as well. why didnt he hit a provisional??