Blade vs CB Video...Interesting Results

Bridgestone Golf

tahoebum

Well-known member
Albatross 2020 Club
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
12,449
Reaction score
3,024
Location
MN and FL
Handicap
0.2
I’ve seen these tests before and have my own conclusions which you can guess by looking at the iron mix in my signature. I’d love to see him test those Mavriks against the Ping Eye 2’s that were released 38 years ago. My educated guess is that the Ping’s would hold up well with dispersion, spin, and distance(same loft)against a modern GI or SGI iron
 

McLovin

feelz good 2 b a Gsta
Albatross 2020 Club
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
29,067
Reaction score
7,924
Location
orlando
Handicap
6.9
This is an interesting take to me, because doesn't everything boil down to measures of success? And isn't the best measure score?
objectively, the club is not helping the golfer with any of its inherent design. the golfer's adaptation to the club and resulting improved [insert metric here] has everything to do with the golfer and nothing to do with the club. but I concede below that this in and of itself is important in the selection process.

I'm a big fan of txg. I watch a lot of their videos. the more I consume, the more I get to know how matt and ian swing the club. you can just see when those guys get comfortable with a driver (e.g. matt with his g410 lst, ian with his sim), they swing differently. when they no longer fear a given miss, they can swing more confidently. ss increases, ball speed increases, etc. so swing-to-swing there are differences in the golfer's delivery that affect the final output result. a robot may not see those same differences, so it's not fair to say one club is objectively better than the other; it's more accurate to say in that one golfer's hand this club is better than the other.

people can play whatever makes them happiest. but nobody can ever convince me that, in a vacuum void of preference (a vacuum that doesn't and shouldn't exist), a club with no technological advancement and no forgiveness is better for anyone, tour players included.
 

tahoebum

Well-known member
Albatross 2020 Club
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
12,449
Reaction score
3,024
Location
MN and FL
Handicap
0.2
people can play whatever makes them happiest. but nobody can ever convince me that, in a vacuum void of preference (a vacuum that doesn't and shouldn't exist), a club with no technological advancement and no forgiveness is better for anyone, tour players included.
I think many golfers agree with you which is why I find it so interesting that most golfers of all abilities play muscle back blades with no perimeter weighting with their wedges. They want extra forgiveness/perimeter weighting in their 5-PW but when they get their scoring clubs they go with a design that is very much like a GW/SW/LW from 40 years. I see very few wedges like the Cleveland CBX 2 in anyone’s bag.
 

blugold

Autobots, roll out!
Albatross 2020 Club
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Messages
50,150
Reaction score
988
Location
Appleton, WI
Handicap
12 or so.
All Mark had to do was say, "there isn't that much of a difference...for me."


I struggle with this because his results are his results. It’s on video, it is objectively measured.
Regardless of how many balls he hit with both irons, his sample size, since he was the only person whose data was collected, is n=1. To make any conclusive statement for a general population outcome based on the results of 1 person is a fool's errand and discredits this video, the claims he was trying to make with the video, and dare I say it him as a resource.
 

tequila4kapp

Well-known member
Albatross 2020 Club
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
34,103
Reaction score
2,815
Location
Tigard, OR
Handicap
USGA 14.9
I’ve seen these tests before and have my own conclusions which you can guess by looking at the iron mix in my signature. I’d love to see him test those Mavriks against the Ping Eye 2’s that were released 38 years ago. My educated guess is that the Ping’s would hold up well with dispersion, spin, and distance(same loft)against a modern GI or SGI iron
There was a video a few years back where Vriska (?) said something like a driver that is more than 4 or 5 years old definitely puts the golfer at a disadvantage but it was more like 10 years for irons. So I wouldn’t be surprised if irons in the same category from years past were close.
 

GraniteRoost

Well-known member
Albatross 2020 Club
Joined
Apr 22, 2016
Messages
3,990
Reaction score
2,386
Location
NH/VT
Handicap
6 Grint
objectively, the club is not helping the golfer with any of its inherent design. the golfer's adaptation to the club and resulting improved [insert metric here] has everything to do with the golfer and nothing to do with the club. but I concede below that this in and of itself is important in the selection process.

I'm a big fan of txg. I watch a lot of their videos. the more I consume, the more I get to know how matt and ian swing the club. you can just see when those guys get comfortable with a driver (e.g. matt with his g410 lst, ian with his sim), they swing differently. when they no longer fear a given miss, they can swing more confidently. ss increases, ball speed increases, etc. so swing-to-swing there are differences in the golfer's delivery that affect the final output result. a robot may not see those same differences, so it's not fair to say one club is objectively better than the other; it's more accurate to say in that one golfer's hand this club is better than the other.

people can play whatever makes them happiest. but nobody can ever convince me that, in a vacuum void of preference (a vacuum that doesn't and shouldn't exist), a club with no technological advancement and no forgiveness is better for anyone, tour players included.
You've said this three times, so I'll register my disagreement. There are a lots of folks here that insist hollow body irons are not prone to "flyers" or being any worse at distance control than a blade. However, the two clubs have different CG's, and MOI's, and face construction by intent. They should not respond the same...those CG's and MOI's will affect how the ball responds on the face...as will face construction/stiffness and how well the (fallible) human designers achieved their goals. I don't believe and iron designed to provide most help on misses, necessarily has the characteristics that make it a better technology choice for all golfers. I also don't believe that hotspots or "flyers" are nonexistent with some SGI clubs. There are some on this forum who have noted more difficulty with distance expectations using popular hollow irons.
 

blugold

Autobots, roll out!
Albatross 2020 Club
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Messages
50,150
Reaction score
988
Location
Appleton, WI
Handicap
12 or so.

Snowman

It's a dry heat!
Albatross 2020 Club
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
4,348
Reaction score
3,332
Location
Arizona
Handicap
GHIN 17.8
All Mark had to do was say, "there isn't that much of a difference...for me."
But he'd have to find a way to bloviate and take up at least 15 minutes of video to do so. :ROFLMAO:
 

baddog

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2014
Messages
201
Reaction score
8
Handicap
20
Clearly it's the golfer that matters first, after that it's just YouTube nonsense. Entertainment for sure, but gospel no.

A consistent ball striker who can hit the center of the club face every time aka Crossfield, TXG, Rick, etc is not the golfer who's buying Mavrik irons. Any testing of mid to high handicap gear by any of these ball strikers is just pointless.

I laugh when TXG Matt tries to slow down his swing to mimic an average golfer and can't get below 95. It's just the not same as a 20 'capper swinging 85 who has trouble making clean contact with a 460cc driver. It's just meaningless.
 

Sean

Earthbound Extraterrestrial
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
9,953
Reaction score
965
Location
South of Boston
I don't know about the validity of his experiment...many of you make some valid points calling it into question: hitting off mats, and having a solid, repeatable swing to name two.

I can only go from my experience. I had a set of MB's (Callaway Tour-Authentic X-Prototypes...wish I still had them), and I found there wasn't THAT much difference in scoring between those and a set of Ping G10's I once owned.
 

Snowman

It's a dry heat!
Albatross 2020 Club
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
4,348
Reaction score
3,332
Location
Arizona
Handicap
GHIN 17.8
I don't know about the validity of his experiment...many of you make some valid points calling it into question: hitting off mats, and having a solid, repeatable swing to name two.

I can only go from my experience. I had a set of MB's (Callaway Tour-Authentic X-Prototypes...wish I still had them), and I found there wasn't THAT much difference in scoring between those and a set of Ping G10's I once owned.
If I had access to a full set of blades, it would be interesting to take them out on the course for a round and see what difference it made in my score. As a mid/high capper with an inconsistent strike, I explore pretty much the entire face of clubs.
 

tahoebum

Well-known member
Albatross 2020 Club
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
12,449
Reaction score
3,024
Location
MN and FL
Handicap
0.2
You've said this three times, so I'll register my disagreement. There are a lots of folks here that insist hollow body irons are not prone to "flyers" or being any worse at distance control than a blade. However, the two clubs have different CG's, and MOI's, and face construction by intent. They should not respond the same...those CG's and MOI's will affect how the ball responds on the face...as will face construction/stiffness and how well the (fallible) human designers achieved their goals. I don't believe and iron designed to provide most help on misses, necessarily has the characteristics that make it a better technology choice for all golfers. I also don't believe that hotspots or "flyers" are nonexistent with some SGI clubs. There are some on this forum who have noted more difficulty with distance expectations using popular hollow irons.
Exactly. I had more flyer approach shots from the fairway that finished well over the green in the 18 months that I played the thin, hot-faced Callaway XR Pros than I have in the other 40 years I’ve played more traditional face design irons. Others can believe what they want but I know the difficulties I had controlling distance with those was real and repeatable for my swing.
 

Sean

Earthbound Extraterrestrial
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
9,953
Reaction score
965
Location
South of Boston
If I had access to a full set of blades, it would be interesting to take them out on the course for a round and see what difference it made in my score. As a mid/high capper with an inconsistent strike, I explore pretty much the entire face of clubs.
In my experience, I found the concept of "forgiveness" to be a bit overrated.
 

KEV

Well-known member
Albatross 2020 Club
Joined
Jul 10, 2015
Messages
19,111
Reaction score
4,280
Location
Southeast, SD
Handicap
7.3
I'm going through this experiment this year with blades after playing Apex Pro and i210 irons over the last year. It'll take some time but I'll be finding out how my scores are impacted over time. It's a very small sample but In two rounds I haven't seen much difference in my iron game TBH. We'll see how it goes though when I'm having a really off day.
 

Badger_Golfer

Minimalist Golfer
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
8,101
Reaction score
493
Location
Wherever
Handicap
Whatever
I love it. Crossfield just keeps proving that all the, "modern tech" is really nothing more than longer shafts, stronger lofts and marketing hype.
 

billyh

If you can't laugh at yourself...
Albatross 2020 Club
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Messages
603
Reaction score
401
Location
Maysville NC
Handicap
A Lot
I love it. Crossfield just keeps proving that all the, "modern tech" is really nothing more than longer shafts, stronger lofts and marketing hype.
That’s a bold and loaded statement. For a tour pro I’m sure they could hit a rock with a stick just as accurate as I can hit my 7 iron. For most high handicappers and new golfers the tech involved with GI and SGI irons can and will have a serious impact on playability.
My gamer irons are 2017 TaylorMade M2’s. I picked up a set of Nike Victory Red TW Blades and hit them pretty well in the store off a mat. Distance was noticeably shorter and the shafts were a little stiff for me, but every shot was dead straight with the 5 and 7 irons. They felt great for the twenty shots I hit with them. Take them out on the course and I did not see anything like how I was hitting them off a mat. After three rounds they went into the backup bag and the M2’s went back in.
Can high cappers use blades? Sure. Can tour pro’s use GI irons? You’d be surprised how many are switching out their long irons for something a little more forgiving and playing blended sets.
I take everything from Crossfield and Shields with a grain of salt. Watching them play on course is COMPLETELY different then smacking balls away indoors off a mat with a launch monitor. Just my 2¢
 

dthrog00

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
1,803
Reaction score
472
Location
north central IL
Handicap
not kept
That’s a bold and loaded statement. For a tour pro I’m sure they could hit a rock with a stick just as accurate as I can hit my 7 iron. For most high handicappers and new golfers the tech involved with GI and SGI irons can and will have a serious impact on playability.
My gamer irons are 2017 TaylorMade M2’s. I picked up a set of Nike Victory Red TW Blades and hit them pretty well in the store off a mat. Distance was noticeably shorter and the shafts were a little stiff for me, but every shot was dead straight with the 5 and 7 irons. They felt great for the twenty shots I hit with them. Take them out on the course and I did not see anything like how I was hitting them off a mat. After three rounds they went into the backup bag and the M2’s went back in.
Can high cappers use blades? Sure. Can tour pro’s use GI irons? You’d be surprised how many are switching out their long irons for something a little more forgiving and playing blended sets.
I take everything from Crossfield and Shields with a grain of salt. Watching them play on course is COMPLETELY different then smacking balls away indoors off a mat with a launch monitor. Just my 2¢
If your Nikes had shafts that were a fit for you they may play totally different. Using ungodly stiff shafts with blades for the average guy is making it a lot harder than it has to be. I have a set of MP4s with XP 105 R300 and they feel great.

DAve
 

Badger_Golfer

Minimalist Golfer
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
8,101
Reaction score
493
Location
Wherever
Handicap
Whatever
That’s a bold and loaded statement. For a tour pro I’m sure they could hit a rock with a stick just as accurate as I can hit my 7 iron. For most high handicappers and new golfers the tech involved with GI and SGI irons can and will have a serious impact on playability.
My gamer irons are 2017 TaylorMade M2’s. I picked up a set of Nike Victory Red TW Blades and hit them pretty well in the store off a mat. Distance was noticeably shorter and the shafts were a little stiff for me, but every shot was dead straight with the 5 and 7 irons. They felt great for the twenty shots I hit with them. Take them out on the course and I did not see anything like how I was hitting them off a mat. After three rounds they went into the backup bag and the M2’s went back in.
Can high cappers use blades? Sure. Can tour pro’s use GI irons? You’d be surprised how many are switching out their long irons for something a little more forgiving and playing blended sets.
I take everything from Crossfield and Shields with a grain of salt. Watching them play on course is COMPLETELY different then smacking balls away indoors off a mat with a launch monitor. Just my 2¢
I'm not sure what there really is to take with a grain of salt when they show you the numbers and the numbers back up their claims.
Imo, most dont want to accept that the new clubs aren't that much better than the old ones and in the case of irons, they aren't any better. If you made the lofts the same, the numbers from new irons and irons from 30 years ago are virtually identical. That's a hard pill to swallow when you just spend $1000+ on a new set of irons.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

Canadan

You Are Great
Albatross 2020 Club
Staff member
Joined
May 16, 2010
Messages
92,599
Reaction score
15,042
Location
Ohio
Handicap
+
I'm not sure what there really is to take with a grain of salt when they show you the numbers and the numbers back up their claims.
Imo, most dont want to accept that the new clubs aren't that much better than the old ones and in the case of irons, they aren't any better. If you made the lofts the same, the numbers from new irons and irons from 30 years ago are virtually identical. That's a hard pill to swallow when you just spend $1000+ on a new set of irons.
Of course most don't want to accept this. It's pure poppycock.
 

Canadan

You Are Great
Albatross 2020 Club
Staff member
Joined
May 16, 2010
Messages
92,599
Reaction score
15,042
Location
Ohio
Handicap
+
What I think some fail to realize is that value added from a club perspective is wholly different golfer to golfer.

Guy can't stop fatting the hell out of the ball? Check out pwrshell from Cobra and experience what it's like to hit a normal iron until you absolutely need the help, and the secondary wide body sole helps.

Too good for that but still a bit steep? Dive into some V-Sole with Srixon and get the best of both worlds without digging a trench style divot every time.

Need the ball to get elevated fast with spin? Awesome, there's tech out there that accomplishes that.
Need the ball to spin less and launch with penetration? Tech available.
Miss the center of the face but want an aggressive profile that has forgiveness around the head? Tech available.
Think you're a golden God who can only hit blades? Do your thing.

....but to claim that clubs are apples to apples from 1990. L-M-A-O.
 
Last edited:

McLovin

feelz good 2 b a Gsta
Albatross 2020 Club
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
29,067
Reaction score
7,924
Location
orlando
Handicap
6.9
I'm not sure what there really is to take with a grain of salt when they show you the numbers and the numbers back up their claims.
Imo, most dont want to accept that the new clubs aren't that much better than the old ones and in the case of irons, they aren't any better. If you made the lofts the same, the numbers from new irons and irons from 30 years ago are virtually identical. That's a hard pill to swallow when you just spend $1000+ on a new set of irons.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
or mark can stop cherry picking to placate the gotcha crowd and actually set up a valid test. give those two clubs to a 30 handicapper and see what happens. but he won’t for a few reasons.

first, nobody would watch that video and have their mind blown when the 30 handicap cant hit the blades and has better results with the sgi irons. i believe the technical term is “no doy”

second, it doesn’t fit his narrative that tech doesn’t matter. so instead he constructs a flawed test that sheep will latch onto and pat each other on the back because cognitive dissonance is a helluva drug

and third, mark loves him some mark. other than the dude with the teeth, he isn’t going to relinquish precious screen time to anyone else.
 

razaar

Active member
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
318
Reaction score
141
Location
Australia
Handicap
4.6
I gave my old Wilson blades (circa 1965) to our local professional to test for a giggle. Every shot was pure which really impressed him. In fact he commented that he would play with them. I got them 20 years ago from a retired naval Captain who only played with them twice.
 

dthrog00

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
1,803
Reaction score
472
Location
north central IL
Handicap
not kept
so instead he constructs a flawed test that sheep will latch onto and pat each other on the back because cognitive dissonance is a helluva drug
c'mon... making it personal much?

I didn't take it that he said for ANYONE that result would stand. It did for him. Everyone else should make their own decisions.

But sheep? Really?
 

KEV

Well-known member
Albatross 2020 Club
Joined
Jul 10, 2015
Messages
19,111
Reaction score
4,280
Location
Southeast, SD
Handicap
7.3
Now I haven't watched this video but I've heard this argument from him before. My question is though how much does confidence play in to this argument? If someone believes they hit blades better than everything else and feels confident in them won't they likely play better with them? The same for the opposite argument.
 

Welcome to The Hackers Paradise

Don't just play golf, live it!

Register Log in
Top