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Breaking... 100, 90, 80, Par - What are the keys?

JonMA1 said:
As is usually the case, what might be true for most is not true for all. Everyone has weaknesses preventing them from getting to the next level and they can be quite different.

Putting is absolutely relevant for an over 100 golfer who is a very poor putter. In my case, poor lag putting can ruin an otherwise (relatively) decent round of proximity to the hole. As a high capper, 100 can be broken with some poor shots, a penalty or two, and even a blow up hole or two. But there can't be too many of those and the rest of the round has to be a bit better than average.

On the occasions when I've broken 90, rarely did any part of the game stand out as exceptional. There was just enough consistent execution throughout the bag mixed in with a little luck.

That said, my experiences obviously do not apply to others.
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I think the lower you go, the more specific it gets.

To break 100, you certainly need to work on whatever your weakest point is that's keeping you from doing it. If you're giving away a lot of penalty strokes off the tee, you need to work on keeping your drives in play; if you're wasting 5-6 strokes around every green, you need to improve your short game; if you're 3 and 4 putting every hole, you need to work on your putting, etc. You don't need to have an overall great game, but you need to fix whatever part is the most terrible/hurting you the most. You can get away with a lot and still break 100 - if you double bogey 9 holes and bogey 9 holes, you just shot a 99.

When you get down to breaking par, every part of your game needs to be on point. Now it's not just keep your drives in play, it's try to put your drives in a specific place to set up the next shot; it's not just getting somewhere close to the green, it's trying to get on the green and close to the pin; it's not just cutting down on your wasted greenside strokes, it's trying to get up and down any time you miss a green. The margin for error is now a lot smaller and it's going to be hard to break par with any glaring weaknesses in your game. Just keeping the ball in play and keeping it in front of you doesn't cut it anymore.

But you're correct that everyone has their own individual weaknesses that can keep them from hitting that next barrier. It's up to them to diagnose what they are and work on improving them. Take five guys of similar handicaps who are struggling to break whichever score barrier, and they'll probably all have different reasons why they're not breaking it - but as the scores go lower, those differences are a lot smaller and more precise.
 
Snowman said:
To break 100, you certainly need to work on whatever your weakest point is that's keeping you from doing it. If you're giving away a lot of penalty strokes off the tee, you need to work on keeping your drives in play; if you're wasting 5-6 strokes around every green, you need to improve your short game; if you're 3 and 4 putting every hole, you need to work on your putting, etc. You don't need to have an overall great game, but you need to fix whatever part is the most terrible/hurting you the most. You can get away with a lot and still break 100 - if you double bogey 9 holes and bogey 9 holes, you just shot a 99.
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The thing is, it's all of those examples - either in combination or when one weakness is worse than usual. Again, that's just me. I score what I score because I can't improve my overall game - across the board. There's likely a single root cause, but improving a single skill or two probably isn't going to change much.

I can't comment on what it takes to break 80 so, yeah, that might be more specific. But I can look back at 5 years of tracking stats and nothing - other than perhaps putting or penalties - stands out. Even in rounds when I've reduced the penalties and putted better than average, something else will bite me in the butt.

In 2017, I averaged 33% GIR while averaging just under 100 for my scores (shorter and easier courses). I knew that was a little better than average for a high capper, but didn't understand the significance until a 10 capper told me he only averaged 25%. At that point I realized how bad the rest of my game must be.
 
JonMA1 said:
The thing is, it's all of those examples - either in combination or when one weakness is worse than usual. Again, that's just me. I score what I score because I can't improve my overall game - across the board. There's likely a single root cause, but improving a single skill or two probably isn't going to change much.

I can't comment on what it takes to break 80 so, yeah, that might be more specific. But I can look back at 5 years of tracking stats and nothing - other than perhaps putting or penalties - stands out. Even in rounds when I've reduced the penalties and putted better than average, something else will bite me in the butt.

In 2017, I averaged 33% GIR while averaging just under 100 for my scores (shorter and easier courses). I knew that was a little better than average for a high capper, but didn't understand the significance until a 10 capper told me he only averaged 25%. At that point I realized how bad the rest of my game must be.
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I think your experience is pretty common for all golfers. Seems like there's always something working well and something else not working well/at all. Some days I putt lights out but am spraying my drives all over the place; some days the driver is steady but I can't hit an iron worth anything. My weakness one day is my strength the next day. Those days when everything happens to come together and work reasonably well are the days we score well - keeping in mind that "well" is relative and means different things to different people.
 
Personally, I think for all those scores, one of the biggest things is course management and knowing what shot to play when. One of my partners stripes the ball. I’m often 30 or 40 yards behind him. Has a great contact on the ball, and yet I beat him him 8 times out of 10 because my shot selection is so much better. I’ll often see him going for the miracle shot when he’s in trouble, or pulling his most lofted club and taking a big long backswing when he’s just off the green. It’s those shots that cost him.
 
The key for me breaking 90 (I have only done it twice) was keeping my drives in play and putting well. Both times I did it I was driving the ball really well (I normally lose 3-5 OB) and was putting really well. Drained some long putts and rarely 3 putt.

For me to break 80 I think the keys are similar. I have to eliminate the really bad shots and scores. Right now that means consistency with driver/irons to keep my 5-8 really bad shots down to bad but salvageable. These are either hammered way offline OB or thinned into a hazzard or chunked 5 yards. I also need to drastically improve short game, mostly sand and chipping. More often then not it takes me multiple try's to get out of a bunker and they rarely anywhere near the hole.

I guess that means I need to work on everything but it's mostly trying to remove the really bad mistakes.
 
greenOak said:
Honestly there’s no single formula to shooting a specific score. Different players have different strengths and weaknesses and so they’re going to get to the same score in different ways.

For example, last year I shot a 79 last year with five 3-putts. I shot an 89 with eight penalty strokes. If I simply ceased 3-putting and ceased taking penalty strokes I would break 80 almost every time. Penalties and putting have always been an issue for me but I make up for it by hitting the ball far and being good around the greens.

I will say that double bogey avoidance is key to breaking both 90 and 80, but the route you take to eliminate those can vary drastically.
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Had a similar round yesterday - a season high 88 with 7 penalty strokes. I was horrific with every club longer than 7-iron but had a good day with my wedges and putted solidly. My second highest round this year was an 87 where I hit the long clubs decent enough but had 40 putts.

Again, it just shows that there’s no magic formula for shooting scores. You simply need to do enough good things to achieve your desired score.
 
I find myself thinking about this a lot lately. I've been fortunate enough to have a good few rounds in the 70's in the last couple years (enough to sneak my cap down into the upper single digits for the first time ever), but never in my life have I sniffed breaking par. I'm thinking about the keys for me to get to that next level of breaking 80 not occasionally, but consistently. I'd be really curious to hear whether I'm thinking of the right stuff for the lower scores from some of our low capper THPers.

Breaking 100: Make solid contact most of the time, don't duff and chunk chips. Control the lost balls and don't take triple+ scores. Putting can be pretty marginal here, but minimizing 3 putts always helps. Basically if you double bogey half the holes and bogey half the holes, you break 100, so it's all about minimizing those big numbers - for every triple you make, you need a par to counteract it using this logic.

Breaking 90: In addition to the above, probably need to be hitting at least 3-4 GIR and hitting a couple fairways and giving yourself a chance on the others. No more than 3-4 3-putts, though less is of course better. Short game needs to be decent, should be giving yourself a chance at getting up and down for and definitely getting up and down in no worse than bogey most of the time. 89 is bogey golf minus one stroke, so it's all about making a couple pars, minimizing the doubles or worse (course management), and bogeying the rest.

Breaking 80: Tougher territory. This is 8 bogeys and 10 pars if you don't make any birds, so either GIR's or up and downs for par start becoming important - therefore solid iron play and solid short game become critical. Can't be losing a lot of balls here, although one or two are going to likely happen. I'm thinking you need at least 5-6 GIR, probably at least 6 or 7 fairways hit, and few if any 3 putts. It also becomes very important to not squander your real birdie opportunities and par saves, because every one you make gives you a cushion against the occasional double. And it goes without saying that you need to keep the triple+ off the card via solid course management.

Breaking Par: I've never done it, so I'm not a reliable source, but I'd imagine you need to be really striking everything crisp and making putts. You'd need 9-10+ GIR and need to convert at least 2 or 3 of those for birdie with the rest being pars, hit a lot of fairways to give you those GIR chances, and when you do miss the green, the short game needs to be clicking to scramble and make up and down pars. A couple bogeys you can afford only if you're making a lot of birdies. Savvy course management is a must because every bogey is a liability - so if you miss, it has to be somewhere where you can make a play.
 
This has been a fun thread to read.

It's amusing how society uses "par" to mean "average" or "expected", when golfing around par in the 70s requires a consistently flawless all-around game that puts you in the top 1% of players.
 
SkiBumGolfer said:
I find myself thinking about this a lot lately. I've been fortunate enough to have a good few rounds in the 70's in the last couple years (enough to sneak my cap down into the upper single digits for the first time ever), but never in my life have I sniffed breaking par. I'm thinking about the keys for me to get to that next level of breaking 80 not occasionally, but consistently. I'd be really curious to hear whether I'm thinking of the right stuff for the lower scores from some of our low capper THPers.

Breaking 80: Tougher territory. This is 8 bogeys and 10 pars if you don't make any birds, so either GIR's or up and downs for par start becoming important - therefore solid iron play and solid short game become critical. Can't be losing a lot of balls here, although one or two are going to likely happen. I'm thinking you need at least 5-6 GIR, probably at least 6 or 7 fairways hit, and few if any 3 putts. It also becomes very important to not squander your real birdie opportunities and par saves, because every one you make gives you a cushion against the occasional double. And it goes without saying that you need to keep the triple+ off the card via solid course management.
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I have only quoted the breaking 80 section as this is where I fall

I don't make a lot of birdies, so for me, keeping the double bogeys off the card is the main priority - for example, I shot 80 at the weekend with 3 doubles on the card, but I got lucky and offset one of them with a hole out eagle, three 3 putts and only had 4 bogeys on the card and no birdies despite a few looks

Course management is definitely a big key, knowing when to play safe and maybe play a tricky par 4 as a par 5 instead of hitting the hero shots and potentially throwing up a big number, or taking your medicine and just advancing the ball to a position where you can still have a shot at the green and having no more than 2 putts
 
I dont feel this can really be broken down to any exact number like 100,90.80.
I say that because imo there is a big difference in (lets say) breaking 90 vs shooting consistent low/mid 80's. the entire high to lower scoring spectrum is not stepped but it is rather proportionally obtained vs ones consistency (or lack of failures) with just about everything.

the first thing one must do imo is to be able to strike balls without being so penal too many times. Its going to be a battle to break an honestly scored 100 if too many balls are lost, oob, chopped, flopped, sliced and hooked and bladed every which way but forward at a decent clip. Imo to stand any chance one must be able to strike balls with some sort of consistency without burning through (or using up) stroke after stroke while hardly moving towards the holes. One just cant have 10 penalty shots off the tees and another 9 or whatever failed iron shots and still be able to play sub 100 golf. You simply cant mount up 25 strokes worth of penalties and or ball striking fails and expect to break even 100.

Once we can move forward at a more respectful clip with each shot on a somewhat more consistent enough basis it then comes to managing better choices to further eliminate some more failed shots. When all that stuff is done respectfully enough you have a chance at being in the sub 100 or better world of golf. But you wont be able to begin to travel lower unless you can also obtain some sort of respectful chipping/pitching and putting games. Imo one isnt going to play any consistent 80's golf without some reasonable ability to chip and putt. The relatively penal free (or free-er) ball striking will allow one to have the opportunity to play there but you just wont do it unless you can also chip and putt reasonably ok. Obviously the lower we go the more it all has to work consistently better and better more often. Fail at anything a tiny bit too much and we just wont go lower.
 
Break 100 - start practicing the short game
Break 90 - keep practicing the short game and get better at it
Break 80 - keep practicing the short game and get good at it
Break 70 - keep practicing the short game and get really good at it
Play Professionally - keep practicing the short game and get great at it
 
I played with a pro my last round. I hit 10/14 fairways with some pretty decent drives. I shot 100.

To break 90 you need to have a good short game. My short game sucked.
 
pattyboy21 said:
Break 100 - start practicing the short game
Break 90 - keep practicing the short game and get better at it
Break 80 - keep practicing the short game and get good at it
Break 70 - keep practicing the short game and get really good at it
Play Professionally - keep practicing the short game and get great at it
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Totally agreed. Short game is priority #1 if you truly want to lower your score as quickly as possible. Here are some other areas that are also important:

Break 100 - Work on solid ball contact. Once you go a round with <3 tops/duffs/etc. you should be in the neighborhood of 90.
Break 90 - Get rid of the big scores. Bogey golf and you're right there...but throw in a few double/triples and you're looking at triple digits again.
Break 80 - Work on a go-to shot off the tee. Something that is consistent and you know you can rely on down the stretch.
Break 70 - Course management is critical. Bad decisions are usually much worse for your score than bad swings, especially at this level.

Seriously though....work on that short game :LOL:
 
When you have a good front nine score don’t get to the 10th tee and think if I shoot X on the back I’ll break Y.
 
pattyboy21 said:
Break 100 - start practicing the short game
Break 90 - keep practicing the short game and get better at it
Break 80 - keep practicing the short game and get good at it
Break 70 - keep practicing the short game and get really good at it
Play Professionally - keep practicing the short game and get great at it
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I agree to a point but just not as much at the higher levels. Even though i stated you cant get lower without obtaining better short games ( is something i completely agree with) , a 100 player is still not ever going to play 80 by only practicing the short game. He/she is still going to need a much better ball striking game vs what it takes to play 100.
There are always exceptions but there are generally speaking still far too many ball striking fails for the average 100 player to ever play to an 80 or for that matter even a 90 consistently unless they become more efficient at their ball striking. General ball striking from the tees and long and mid games has to be an efficient given in order to ever have a chance at (lets say 80) golf.
One must get themselves to or near enough the greens (via consistent enough tee, long and mid games ball striking wise) in GIR amount of strokes on majority of holes played or an 80 will never materialize regardless how well they chip/pitch and putt. They wont do it without that stuff either just as i also implied and agree with you on. But its also not obtainable without a pretty consistent game being a given from the tees and onward. It usually takes a much more consistent one than the average current 100 player possesses. We cant just forget about those other parts as they will also be far too detrimental and make it impossible for him to play to an 80 if they are not much improved as well. The math will simply never work without it.
 
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Lots of great insights here, but Jim Furyk's advice is sure to work: "Play fewer holes."
 
Play better!😆
 
Evolvingwildes said:
Break 80 - Work on a go-to shot off the tee. Something that is consistent and you know you can rely on down the stretch.
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Just what exactly is a "go-to" shot off the tee? And how does one work on one?
I dont really get what that even means. I mean if someone has a shot they can consistently rely on then why not use it through the entire course? If there is a go-to shot off the tee than what exactly are all the other shots one takes?
 
jmix18 said:
I see many threads out there about breaking score barriers - all of which I've passed through - except shooting a full 18 under par... yet.

As I think about the scoring journey what do you feel the key elements are to break certain scoring barriers?
100?
90?
80?
Break Par?
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Break 100 - limit OB/Hazards. Just learn to advance the ball consistently.

Break 90 - you're advancing the ball around the greens now at least, getting on a few, and putting well enough.

Break 80 - Can get off the tee consistently, now you're also hitting greens semi consistently OR you're very good with your wedges and stick it close for a lot of up and downs. Putting needs to be much improved by this stage too.

Break par - Lots of fairways or highly skilled out of rough, now you're hitting more greens than missing, you're good with your wedges if you miss, and you can also now putt well.
 
rollin said:
I agree to a point but just not as much at the higher levels. Even though i stated you cant get lower without obtaining better short games ( is something i completely agree with) , a 100 player is still not ever going to play 80 by only practicing the short game. He/she is still going to need a much better ball striking game vs what it takes to play 100.
There are always exceptions but there are generally speaking still far too many ball striking fails for the average 100 player to ever play to an 80 or for that matter even a 90 consistently unless they become more efficient at their ball striking. General ball striking from the tees and long and mid games has to be an efficient given in order to ever have a chance at (lets say 80) golf.
One must get themselves to or near enough the greens (via consistent enough tee, long and mid games ball striking wise) in GIR amount of strokes on majority of holes played or an 80 will never materialize regardless how well they chip/pitch and putt. They wont do it without that stuff either just as i also implied and agree with you on. But its also not obtainable without a pretty consistent game being a given from the tees and onward. It usually takes a much more consistent one than the average current 100 player possesses. We cant just forget about those other parts as they will also be far too detrimental and make it impossible for him to play to an 80 if they are not much improved as well. The math will simply never work without it.
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Yes, I think I posted a long reply to the Breaking 100 thread where I suggested people look at where their strokes are being spent and what to focus on to improve. Length is one factor and the only options to address that are 1) getting longer, or 2) moving up to a different set of tees. If wild shots are adding penalty strokes, then sure, it makes sense to eliminate those. But most people would benefit from at least 50% of practice dedicated to short game improvement.

Length and errant shots aside, if a player can get inside 100 yards of the green on average, a very average short game should result in a score of 90.
 
in my brain, it's simple...be better.
 
pattyboy21 said:
Yes, I think I posted a long reply to the Breaking 100 thread where I suggested people look at where their strokes are being spent and what to focus on to improve. Length is one factor and the only options to address that are 1) getting longer, or 2) moving up to a different set of tees. If wild shots are adding penalty strokes, then sure, it makes sense to eliminate those. But most people would benefit from at least 50% of practice dedicated to short game improvement.

Length and errant shots aside, if a player can get inside 100 yards of the green on average, a very average short game should result in a score of 90.
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thanks for the conversation.

Not just most people but actually everyone who can get better at short game via practicing benefits from that. Whatever anyone gets better at becomes a benefit to them.

Just to note I dont consider 100 or 90 or even 75 yrd shot short game but I still consider that ball striking. But thats subjective. However Ill explain more about my opinion on that here.
See....... your last sentence where you mention setting length deficiency as well as errant shots aside.....Imo if a player is not too short a hitter nor errant he is most certainly getting much closer than 100 in the first place. If one is still 100,90,80 and even 75 out after 2 strokes (on a p4) on very many holes than there is still far too much of some type of ball striking issues going on via being errant or too short or whatever else. And its likely just a bit too much of one in order shoot a 90.

Imo also if thier ball striking is not getting them much closer than that on majority of holes then they are not going to have much luck at all striking those 80.90.100 yarders onto the green either. Those are not chips nor short pitches but are imo far much more related to ball striking ability than they are short game imo. In fact those yardages are very much full swings with given clubs/wedges for many folks. If the deficiency with ball striking was ok enough then they will be much closer than that fairly often in the first place. In a nutshell.... I think you are giving too much credit to ones ball striking when implying they are ok enough only being inside 100 where i think thats actually an issue with ball striking. Move that number to say about 40 and imo now perhaps we are talking ball striking ability just efficient enough to shoot 90 with a decent and improved short game. I agree with you but i think the yardage number needs to be different for it to make better sense.
 
Improving any single skill only helps overall if you don’t lose ground on the other skills.

As poorly as I play, it becomes worse when I don’t practice or work on my full swing. I’ve improved my short game significantly by dedicating more of my practice time towards it. But in doing so, my full swing has suffered. So I’m left with a game that produces the same crappy scores.

There is likely a combination or ratio that is optimal, but at this point it seems like practice - for me - is less about improvement and more about treading water.
 
rollin said:
Just what exactly is a "go-to" shot off the tee? And how does one work on one?
I dont really get what that even means. I mean if someone has a shot they can consistently rely on then why not use it through the entire course? If there is a go-to shot off the tee than what exactly are all the other shots one takes?
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For me, I know (think?) I can play a little abbreviated swing that fades a bit and goes 240-250. This would be a “go-to” shot off the tee. This can keep me in play when needed. However, on holes where there is more room, I can take a longer swing. The risk is the miss becomes bigger, but the reward could be up to 30-35 yards which is a few clubs. I’m more likely to hit the green with an 8 compared to a 5. For others it may be a different shot shape or even a different club for the go-to.
 
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