NEWS Brooks Koepka Back on PGA Tour?

[Templet0n]

The notion that they walked from the merger for any other reason other than they got a ton of cash is just flawed in my opinion.

Not what I am saying. I am simply saying based on what "they have said". They are not burning through it fast. Thats all.

 

[JB]

Not what I am saying. I am simply saying based on what "they have said". They are not burning through it fast. Thats all.

They arent fortunately, because they are going to need more if the next TV deal isnt bonkers. The amount of bloat in that organization for a tax fraud structure is insane.
It seems like since LIV, they have made some stronger changes, which Rory has eluded to a few times, including larger purses, etc.

They hvae a chance to unite golf, instead of making it worse and if it wasnt for the Jupiter clan, it would have been done already.

 

[BigMac]

I think there is some leverage. How much? I have no idea. I have said before, the merger didn't happen because the tour see's or at minimum thinks they have the upper hand. If Bryson or Rahm leave. LIV is basically done.. Brooks as I said, is a cut that needs a few stitches. Rahm or Bryson is getting your throat cut..

I think LIV is going to wither anyway. It is just a matter of how long it takes.. could be 3 years could be 5 years.. I have no idea.

The problem with LDS is that it's a very U.S. - centric perspective without taking into consideration the popularity of LIV on the other side of the world, where most of their events are played. And the fact that the Saudis are well equipped to play the long game if they choose to do so.

 

[mav52]

Why would the PGA offer a return path to Bryson, Rahm and Smith if two of them have no interest in returning to the PGA. Clearly not everything discussed has been made public.

The major winners besides DJ and Phil.

 

[mav52]

Because David Puig and Eugenio Chacarra don’t draw the same kind of viewership.

They want the big names back - if nothing else than as an “F U” to LIV. I’m sure the PGAT decision process is still very grudge based.

All about viewership plus its in the Monhan replacements wheel house,

• NFL Experience: Rolapp was instrumental in the NFL's massive media deals with platforms like Amazon, Netflix, and ESPN, and helped launch NFL+.
• 
  The guy wants media attention, and the names allowed to come back could bring that.

 

[MaineFootWedge]

 

[18Slices]

Why would the PGA offer a return path to Bryson, Rahm and Smith if two of them have no interest in returning to the PGA. Clearly not everything discussed has been made public.

They are the two needle movers. Hatton the only other one, to a lesser degree. All the others on LIV are just filler and make no real difference to the perception of the PGAT as the truly top golf tour with the worlds best playing on it. Its not that there arent some other good golfers in the filler - but the PGAT already has equivalent players to them or better, and certainly more of them. So they arent really needed.
LIV is hanging by a thread when the decision of just one of two men can sink it. There is just no way back if one of them left. Filler players alone will not cut it, and while the tide was turning with LIVs failure to tempt any further top 30 players over the last two years, this is the moment it died. How long it takes for it to realise that depends on the boardroom pulling the plug of its own initiative, or, BDC or JR hastening the decision, we dont know. Maybe with the Feb 2 indication, there are only a couple weeks left before it is deadman walking, even if it fulfils 2026 with the rump.

 

[JB]

They are the two needle movers. Hatton the only other one, to a lesser degree. All the others on LIV are just filler and make no real difference to the perception of the PGAT as the truly top golf tour with the worlds best playing on it. Its not that there are some other good golfers in the filler - but the PGAT already has equivalent players to them or better, and certainly more of them. So they arent really needed.
LIV is hanging by a thread when the decision of just one of two men can sink it. There is just no way back if one of them left. Filler players alone will not cut it, and while the tide was turning with LIVs failure to tempt any further top 30 players over the last two years, this is the moment it died. How long it takes for it to realise that depends on the boardroom taking the bottle of brandy and pistol of its own initiative, or, BDC or JR hastening the decision, we dont know. Maybe with the Feb 2 indication, there are only a couple weeks left before it is deadman walking, even if it fulfils 2026 with the rump.

There are only 5-6 people in all of golf that move any sort of needle.
LIV losing Bryson and Rahm would be a killer, but we can't pretend the PGA Tour losing Scheffler and Rory wouldnt be catastrophic.
Nobody gives a flying crap about half the guys in the field. Its the watched product because forever it was the only product.

 

[PhillyV]

Like who? There are 5 or 6 tour players that matter in this battle. Just like there are really only 2 to 4 players on LIV that matter in this fight.

It doesnt matter who lol risk is there.

We are close to a full merger. It only happens if the top LIV players come back. But you have to bring them back without making it easy for others to leave.

Say Bryson and Rahm don’t take the bait and in the meantime, Rory feels betrayed by the PGAT and leaves. Now what? And it’s not that crazy of a concept because Rory’s IDGAF attitude since winning the Masters is the kind of petty fuel he needs to make a move like that.

I don’t think it’s going to happen and I don’t want it to happen. But how they handled Brooks coming back opens the door for something like this to happen.

 

[PhillyV]

There are only 5-6 people in all of golf that move any sort of needle.
LIV losing Bryson and Rahm would be a killer, but we can't pretend the PGA Tour losing Scheffler and Rory wouldnt be catastrophic.
Nobody gives a flying crap about half the guys in the field. Its the watched product because forever it was the only product.

You beat me to it by 2 minutes

 

[MikeG]

They are the two needle movers. Hatton the only other one, to a lesser degree. All the others on LIV are just filler and make no real difference to the perception of the PGAT as the truly top golf tour with the worlds best playing on it. Its not that there arent some other good golfers in the filler - but the PGAT already has equivalent players to them or better, and certainly more of them. So they arent really needed.
LIV is hanging by a thread when the decision of just one of two men can sink it. There is just no way back if one of them left. Filler players alone will not cut it, and while the tide was turning with LIVs failure to tempt any further top 30 players over the last two years, this is the moment it died. How long it takes for it to realise that depends on the boardroom taking the bottle of brandy and pistol of its own initiative, or, BDC or JR hastening the decision, we dont know. Maybe with the Feb 2 indication, there are only a couple weeks left before it is deadman walking, even if it fulfils 2026 with the rump.

Interesting that they have been "Dead Man Walking" and yet keep fielding teams, have qualifications events and have players that keep wanting to be a part of it. Hardly hanging on by a thread. if not for the SSG money, the tour would be (and most likely is) hanging on by a looser thread than LIV

I am not sure you can say the PGAT is where "the worlds best play" because you have LIV players that are just as good as the top 30 on the PGAT.

 

[MikeG]

It doesnt matter who lol risk is there.

We are close to a full merger. It only happens if the top LIV players come back. But you have to bring them back without making it easy for others to leave.

Say Bryson and Rahm don’t take the bait and in the meantime, Rory feels betrayed by the PGAT and leaves. Now what? And it’s not that crazy of a concept because Rory’s IDGAF attitude since winning the Masters is the kind of petty fuel he needs to make a move like that.

I don’t think it’s going to happen and I don’t want it to happen. But how they handled Brooks coming back opens the door for something like this to happen.

The other thing is now you have the Finau's or Hovlands of the PGAT rethinking the bag that was offered.

 

[echico]

All the complaints and random jokes about the PGAT leaderboards over the last few years makes me chuckle that people are discounting the LIV roster.

When Scottie or Rory are not playing the leaderboards are a who's who of who's that. A leaderboard with any of the following Rahm, Cam, Niemann, Ortiz, Ancer, Muñoz, Burmester, Reed, DJ, Bryson, Gooch, Pieters, Puig, McKibbin, Hatton among others would go a long way to improve the product. The LIV roster back on the PGAT adds a lot of depth since they still think it needs to be a week to week grind.

 

[Wildcat]

All the complaints and random jokes about the PGAT leaderboards over the last few years makes me chuckle that people are discounting the LIV roster.

When Scottie or Rory are not playing the leaderboards are a who's who of who's that. A leaderboard with any of the following Rahm, Cam, Niemann, Ortiz, Ancer, Muñoz, Burmester, Reed, DJ, Bryson, Gooch, Pieters, Puig, McKibbin, Hatton among others would go a long way to improve the product. The LIV roster back on the PGAT adds a lot of depth since they still think it needs to be a week to week grind.

After Rory and Scottie, who are the next best players to watch? Xander and Victor? Jordan and Justin? Honest question.

I like LIV in that I can root for the guys I like and if they are not playing well I can still root for the team. If the team is out then I can watch something else.

 

[JB]

After Rory and Scottie, who are the next best players to watch? Xander and Victor? Jordan and Justin? Honest question.

I like LIV in that I can root for the guys I like and if they are not playing well I can still root for the team. If the team is out then I can watch something else.

I think Xander definitely, Justin for sure. Spieth to a lesser degree because he isnt relevant.
There are other names, Rickie, Morikuck, Fleetwood, etc.
The names alone trounce those of a Burmester, who I wouldnt know if he walked into my office right now and I work in golf.

What LIV has is a few of the best young players in the world, and that would be a huge get for the PGA Tour. What they dont have is name equity outside of the top.
Whats funny is the lack of objectivity involved by everybody.
Brooks was done and no loss, but is now a get for the PGA Tour.
Cam is done and no loss, but if he walked, he would absolutely be the same thing.
Why? Because he is a known entity.

 

[Bernoulli]

There are only 5-6 people in all of golf that move any sort of needle.
LIV losing Bryson and Rahm would be a killer, but we can't pretend the PGA Tour losing Scheffler and Rory wouldnt be catastrophic.
Nobody gives a flying crap about half the guys in the field. Its the watched product because forever it was the only product.

And probably of those 5 or 6, there is one who doesn’t even play.

 

[Greg Kulbick]

I can't believe people are going to sit here and act like they wouldn't give a **** if DJ, Neiman or Gooch went back to the PGAT if offered a path. Asterisk jokes aside, each of them could impact a field at any event and to act like they aren't better than a shitload of people listed ahead of them on the OWGR is lunacy.

 

[DataDude]

But the time limited return to the PGAT tour offer is strange. Why would it be offered if they werent trying to get one of them over the line, and there was already some hint they were open to the possibility ?

My guess is that Rahm got $500 million and Bryson thinks he's worth more than that, but LIV doesn't have more than that to offer right now so they can't get him across the line. The PGA Tour wants him to go ahead and jump so why not set the date. Given that Rahm's contract is so much higher than anyone else got for the jump, I'm guessing he has to stay. He probably has no option.

 

[18Slices]

A leaderboard with any of the following Rahm, Cam, Niemann, Ortiz, Ancer, Muñoz, Burmester, Reed, DJ, Bryson, Gooch, Pieters, Puig, McKibbin, Hatton among others would go a long way to improve the product.

Only Rahm and BDC improve the product sufficiently to make a difference. There is nothing wrong with the others, but the PGAT has no shortage of contenders for players ranking in the 20-60 range. A few more make marginal to negligible difference. LIV has nothing but that, and only a dozen at that. Apart from their Big Two (and a half - Hatton), with that dozen, the rest is outside the top 100 of the PGA or world rankings. Its why LIV has made no impression as a competitive tour. Take away the couple and the head of it, and there is nothing left at all. 20-60, or 60-120 in a bigger field only have value when the top 20 are their in majority. With none of the top 2 world golfers, then little remains but feeder tour level, like the DP Tour.

 

[JB]

Only Rahm and BDC improve the product sufficiently to make a difference. There is nothing wrong with the others, but the PGAT has no shortage of contenders for players ranking in the 20-60 range. A few more make marginal to negligible difference. LIV has nothing but that, and only a dozen at that. Apart from their Big Two (and a half - Hatton), with that dozen, the rest is outside the top 100 of the PGA or world rankings. Its why LIV has made no impression as a competitive tour. Take away the couple and the head of it, and there is nothing left at all. 20-60, or 60-120 in a bigger field only have value when the top 20 are their in majority. With none of the top 2 world golfers, then little remains but feeder tour level, like the DP Tour.

by this logic, the Euro tour has literally nothing.

 

[MikeG]

Only Rahm and BDC improve the product sufficiently to make a difference. There is nothing wrong with the others, but the PGAT has no shortage of contenders for players ranking in the 20-60 range. A few more make marginal to negligible difference. LIV has nothing but that, and only a dozen at that. Apart from their Big Two (and a half - Hatton), with that dozen, the rest is outside the top 100 of the PGA or world rankings. Its why LIV has made no impression as a competitive tour. Take away the couple and the head of it, and there is nothing left at all. 20-60, or 60-120 in a bigger field only have value when the top 20 are their in majority. With none of the top 2 world golfers, then little remains but feeder tour level, like the DP Tour.

Not really apples to apples since LIV aren't getting OWGR and haven't been for a while. LIV has made quite an impression as a competitive tour despite the LDSers trying to will it to the contrary.

While the PGAT might not have "no shortage of contenders" you are being a little kind if you think the likes of Gotterup | Bhatia| English | Harman | Hall | MacIntyre | Taylor | McNealy | Novak

are better than or wouldn't be surpassed by Cam | Niemann | Ortiz | ANcer | Munoz | McKibbin | Surratt | DJ \ Reed | Puig | Hatton

 

[18Slices]

While the PGAT might not have "no shortage of contenders" you are being a little kind if you think the likes of Gotterup | Bhatia| English | Harman | Hall | MacIntyre | Taylor | McNealy | Novak

are better than or wouldn't be surpassed by Cam | Niemann | Ortiz | ANcer | Munoz | McKibbin | Surratt | DJ \ Reed | Puig | Hatton

I am saying both groups (Hatton excluded, he is in the top rank) are equivalent, and the PGAT can compile a much longer list than LIV at that level than you have there. They would be 'nice to have' but in no way needed, as they have no shortage of that level of player.

 

[MikeG]

I am saying both groups (Hatton excluded, he is in the top rank) are equivalent, and the PGAT can compile a much longer list than LIV at that level than you have there. They would be 'nice to have' but in no way needed, as they have no shortage of that level of player.

I think you are giving too much credit to the middle to bottom half of the pGAT when compared to the same population of LIV.

Golf is hard, pro golf is even harder. Swap the players between leagues and I doubt you see much difference in terms of performance.

 

[JB]

I think you are giving too much credit to the middle to bottom half of the pGAT when compared to the same population of LIV.

Golf is hard, pro golf is even harder. Swap the players between leagues and I doubt you see much difference in terms of performance.

I think the idea is that neither group does anything.

Which I tend to agree with.

Outside of course that multiple major winners are on one side, even if they do have to play the villain.

The real loss to the PGA Tour are the young phenoms that are with LIV. The world needs to see more of them.

 

[echico]

Only Rahm and BDC improve the product sufficiently to make a difference. There is nothing wrong with the others, but the PGAT has no shortage of contenders for players ranking in the 20-60 range. A few more make marginal to negligible difference. LIV has nothing but that, and only a dozen at that. Apart from their Big Two (and a half - Hatton), with that dozen, the rest is outside the top 100 of the PGA or world rankings. Its why LIV has made no impression as a competitive tour. Take away the couple and the head of it, and there is nothing left at all. 20-60, or 60-120 in a bigger field only have value when the top 20 are their in majority. With none of the top 2 world golfers, then little remains but feeder tour level, like the DP Tour.

Add Bryson Rahm and Hatton's wins on LIV and compare to Niemann.