Calculating your handicap -- flawed system?
Pain. Felt. I’m usually better when I’m playing with better competition, not necessarily in competition. Haven’t played enough to know. Used to play in the county and competed but there’s a group of guys that think they own it so...
Never mind. I can be a vanity or sandbagger in any round. I always played the county in the scratch division as winning it in anything other would have been an *win. I’ve been as high as 3rd and was there for many years. Two guys always beat me. Haven’t played in a few years I’m just too beat up to compete but trying to relearn a swing.
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The current handicap system is sound. It shows what the golfer is capable of. Makes the player try harder to try and beat their net handicap score.
The whole point of playing golf is to shoot the lowest score possible each time out. . Handicaps help with this I think.
The only bad thing about the handicap system is that it doesn't prevent sandbagging.
The whole point of playing golf is to shoot the lowest score possible each time out. . Handicaps help with this I think.
The only bad thing about the handicap system is that it doesn't prevent sandbagging.
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Most casual players don't even know that under the WHS you are only expected to meet or beat your handicap about 20% of the time.
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- #30
I think from a competitive perspective, the handicap system is fine. I'm not sure it needed to reduce the number of counting scores as the WHS did, but I do think potential to score makes it more fair for a larger collective of players.
That in mind, I think we need to reconsider what a handicap 'is' and how it's talked about. I'd prefer to use my scoring average to reflect my ability. It becomes less of a pissing contest and more of a reflection of what golfers can expect.
Give me:
- Handicap
- Average Score
- Deviation Score (basically how consistent I am to my average or not)
That in mind, I think we need to reconsider what a handicap 'is' and how it's talked about. I'd prefer to use my scoring average to reflect my ability. It becomes less of a pissing contest and more of a reflection of what golfers can expect.
Give me:
- Handicap
- Average Score
- Deviation Score (basically how consistent I am to my average or not)
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This is what i said in my OP.
Rolling scoring average better reflects ones ability.
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I laughed quite hard at this!The handicap system is definitely flawed. They think I am a 7. What they don't take into account is I have a 20 handicap brain.
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- #33
I think it better serves as a reflection of ability, definitely. With that in mind, I would not participate in competitions that used anything other than handicap as I would get slaughtered haha. Even as is, the regular games played on my course have a few guys every weekend shooting net 66 or 67 (and a bunch shooting net 80 but I'm not worried about them haha).This is what i said in my OP.
As a plus handicap, that's an impossible mountain to climb.
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I think there’s a general misunderstanding and misuse of a golf handicap which causes a lot of the confusion. Things from golf OEM websites to the PGA Tour 2K21 video game to casual buddies frame it as ‘what do you typically score‘ which in most cases is a good gauge of your general golfing abilities. The official handicap is essentially asking ‘how well could you score on your best day’ which is a question that nobody asks but is probably a better system for competitive play. The problem is most people don’t keep an official handicap so when asked they’ll answer with their typical score thus conflating the two.
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Disagree for a number of reasons. Once again, the whole point of a handicap is to allow two players of disparate abilities to compete.This is what i said in my OP.
1. Average score mixes players playing different courses of varying difficulties from different tees. No way that yields a fair or equitable match.
2. Par for courses is not standardized. While a par of 72 is most popular there are lots of courses with a par of 70 and 71. Some have 68, 69, or 73.
3. Further, those declarations of par for courses don't necessary reflect the difficulty of a course. There are lots of par 72 courses with course ratings of 67-74 and a few outside of this range.
4. As pointed out by others, a handicap based on an average of all scores is very easy to skew intentionally or unintentionally.
5. What are you going to do with executive courses?
I could go on, but I trust this makes the point.
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1. When did I ever mention a match?
2. It’s still an average score for 18 holes.
3. No different than current handicaps not reflecting the skill of golfers all playing diff courses.
4. 95% of golfers try to score their best and are honest; why worry about the cheats?
5. Executives, par 3s, pitch & putts all are a different beasts do they don’t count.
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1. As I and several other have pointed out, the whole point of a handicap system is to enable players of differing skill levels to compete.
2. ...and is meaningless for all the reasons listed.
3. Incorrect. The WHS and its predecessors all use a course rating system, not published par on the scorecard for each course to normalize to what a scratch player would be expected to score. The WHS takes this even farther and adjusts for playing conditions on any given day.
4. I said, "intentionally or unintentionally". You completely left out the latter in your answer. As to the former: why would you want to make it easy for cheaters to cheat and difficult for their cheating to be discovered? Because your proposal removes a long list of safeguards built into the current system.
5. Okay, so it's your proposal. You can choose to do this. But have you even thought of the consequences of doing so? First of all, the current handicapping system includes them. They can get a course rating and be included in the handicapping system. By removing them, you are going to reduce the play on these courses and add to the overcrowding on standard length courses. In many cases, playing these executive courses has a length and difficulty no different than playing the most forward tees at most courses. Junior programs like The First Tee thrive at these executive courses and many beginners cut their teeth on these courses. Now you've taken away the ability for them to track their progress against anyone playing anywhere else.
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My original statement in the OP is very simple, straightforward, and correct; i will continue to stand behind it. Thank you for taking so much interest in my post as it gives it quite a bit of validation.
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So I played in my first tournament using my HC this weekend.
It took this to make me realize that HC reflects what your high end score is and not your average. Only reason it took me this long to really understand that is I shot a 105 and was 10 strokes higher than I have been in 10 rounds. Didn't change my HC. I had to do some more study yesterday to figure out how a HC is actually calculated and why such a poor round didn't change my HC.
It took this to make me realize that HC reflects what your high end score is and not your average. Only reason it took me this long to really understand that is I shot a 105 and was 10 strokes higher than I have been in 10 rounds. Didn't change my HC. I had to do some more study yesterday to figure out how a HC is actually calculated and why such a poor round didn't change my HC.
because the calculation is based on the best 8 in the last 20 rounds you post. Everytime you post a score, one rolls off that group of 20. If you kick one of your low 8 off, then it could be replaced by a higher score (or lower) thus changing your Index.
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Yeah, I guess I didn't understand that fully until yesterday. So theoretically I can shoot 11 rounds in a row higher than my handicap plus the 105 I shot this weekend and it wouldn't raise my cap assuming my last 8 rounds are my low rounds. Which in my case is a true statement.
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- #43
Just revisiting this as I was looking at my hdcp which currently sits at 6.0 and is nowhere near reflective of my scoring at the moment. It's amazing how one low round can drop it but getting your hdcp back up near "average" score is nearly impossible. Am I capable of shooting 78? Sure IF everything is clicking. How often do I do so? Once every 6 rounds or so MAYBE...I'm the guy right now that would play a tournament, shoot 85 like I did today all while giving up 8 strokes to a 14 and getting steamrolled. Irritating.
My understanding of the index is that it should be a score you shoot 1 out of 5. Not your average.
We can discuss if that’s the right way to handicap. But one out of 6 isn’t that far off.
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- #45
I totally get it, I know its based on potential not average but I do believe the system doesn't quite work for us hackers who only play once a week and aren't very consistent though
Or in my case on a course that hasn't been rated in over 10 years after many improvements have been done and is clearly wrong. Feel your pain.
Absolutely. I got the opposite of soft capped when I started playing better the system started taking a stroke off every score I post for 8-10 rounds. Doing all it can to drop my cap as fast as possible.
Handicaps are interesting and nobody will ever agree what is right or wrong. I made a lot of money in competitions (only league rounds counted in handicap) when things started to click and my handicap had not caught up to my ability. I wasn't sandbagging but I knew my ability was better than my handicap and I took full advantage of that. Once I got into the handicap I leveled out at it was a grind to make money. Now in order for me to win competitions where someone shoots a net 66 I have to be at level par where I have never shot before. I can look at that as unfair but then I am not giving back the money I made when I did it. 
There are times you have to take advantage of your handicap and times where you have to know what game you are playing.
To the OP's point, taking competition out of it, if some one said they normally shoot 85 then that makes sense to me as well. Handicaps really are only for competitions. If you are just trying to convey your ability level then saying your average score or range gets your point across. Either way only accept a bet or play for money if you are willing to lose (life lessons)
There are times you have to take advantage of your handicap and times where you have to know what game you are playing.To the OP's point, taking competition out of it, if some one said they normally shoot 85 then that makes sense to me as well. Handicaps really are only for competitions. If you are just trying to convey your ability level then saying your average score or range gets your point across. Either way only accept a bet or play for money if you are willing to lose (life lessons
)
When I play as a single, if they ask my cap I usually just give them my average score. Most people you play don’t understand that cap is based in your best days. I also don’t play anyone for money if I just show up at the course as a single, because I would be cheating if they asked my cap and I gave them my average score.
I used to tell people my cap, but there were a few uncomfortable rounds/comments when I shot close to 90 after telling them I was a 9 hcp.
My average scores haven’t changed all that much from when I was a 9 or my current 12, but I just don’t have that low one or two scores on my cap that I did when I was a 9. I have always had some bad scores on my history, just don’t have the low ones right now. I don’t feel like I have any rounds in the 70’s coming up either, but I am working on my swing.
I used to tell people my cap, but there were a few uncomfortable rounds/comments when I shot close to 90 after telling them I was a 9 hcp.
My average scores haven’t changed all that much from when I was a 9 or my current 12, but I just don’t have that low one or two scores on my cap that I did when I was a 9. I have always had some bad scores on my history, just don’t have the low ones right now. I don’t feel like I have any rounds in the 70’s coming up either, but I am working on my swing.
Et Tu Brute?
Well-known member
If you want a good test of ability then go play 36, 54 or better yet 72 holes of stroke play under strict Rules of Golf. Your total score will be a good measure of your ability.
All this talk about "potential" and so forth is bedside the point. The purpose of a handicap is to equalize the chances of winning among golfers or unequal ability playing in a handicapped game or match. Quibble if you like with the details of how USGA goes about doing that but I'd say the current formula does as good a job as any formula could of giving you and me each a handicap that would let us go play against each other with a roughly 50/50 chance of either of us winning. That's what it's meant to do.
IMO the only way the system could be made better would be to pare it down to posting only scores that can be validated and undergo actual (not pretend) Peer Review. The way posting works allows sandbagging and vanity handicapping with virtually no limit. But using the same wide open approach to posting scores and changing the formula for computing handicaps would do nothing about those problems.
All this talk about "potential" and so forth is bedside the point. The purpose of a handicap is to equalize the chances of winning among golfers or unequal ability playing in a handicapped game or match. Quibble if you like with the details of how USGA goes about doing that but I'd say the current formula does as good a job as any formula could of giving you and me each a handicap that would let us go play against each other with a roughly 50/50 chance of either of us winning. That's what it's meant to do.
IMO the only way the system could be made better would be to pare it down to posting only scores that can be validated and undergo actual (not pretend) Peer Review. The way posting works allows sandbagging and vanity handicapping with virtually no limit. But using the same wide open approach to posting scores and changing the formula for computing handicaps would do nothing about those problems.