Construction wise you're correct. Interestingly though, the lofts of the HL have more in common with the Ai200 though. And the lengths of the Ai300 match both Smoke sets.
Callaway Apex Performance Series Irons – Ai200, Ai300 and Ti Fusion
GeorgiaLefty87
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I know Callaway are calling the Ai300 a cavity back, but it’s really a hollow body the same as the Ai200, isn’t it? It just has a thicker body so the cut out on the back is slightly deeper.
Saw the three new models in person for the first tome since they were released today...my goodness did Callaway knock it out of the park. The AI 300 fit my eye the best, but the other two are just as stunning. We'll see when and if these could happen, but they are stunning.
I mean... any club that isn't a one piece forging is a "hollow body" to an extent but the fact that the Ai300 is thicker and has a larger cavity removed is what makes it a cavity back. Same with the AiSmoke HL. Callaway wouldn't be calling it a cavity back if it wasn't.
I had the same experience with SF when I was fitted to my Apex Pro's. They were a bit stiff and I lost some ball speed. I went with MMTs but had to strengthen the loft a bit to combat the tip on the MMT vs the SF. Couldn't get used to the SF, they felt too board for me. The Fusions reacted well to the MMTs for me at a demo day.
ORUTRAVIS
Retired Pro
The SF's play definitely on the stiffer side. My 7 iron swing speed is around 88-91 and lost no control with a steelfiber regular flex. I actually order the wrong flex and played them for three years.
GeorgiaLefty87
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That’s fair. Personally, I don’t consider a club that is hollow all the way up to the top line a cavity back. Also, the Ai300 is hardly a cavity back compared to the Smoke HL. The HL cavity is a half inch deep where the Ai300 is just millimeters…almost as if it’s just sanded down.
Yep. Can’t wait to hit some full shots with them. Just pitching and chipping.
I think what maybe makes it a "cavity" back is the ridge that closes off the toe side and hosel side of the back of the 300 vs the open toe/hosel on the back of the 200.
Ai300
Ai200
Otherwise, they are exactly the same tech. If you go to the Callaway website and look at the "tech" info for each club, what is posted is exactly the same both clubs. Both are hollow bodies.
From the Ai300 page
From the Ai200 page
EDIT: Well, it appears I don't know how to read.
The Ai300 clearly states " forged cavity-back" and the Ai200 states " forged hollow-body".
The 300 doesn't appear to be a cavity-back in the traditional sense so, I don't know. Other than the wording there they appear to share the same construction.
Last edited:
GeorgiaLefty87
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That’s exactly what I was referring to. They are literally the same construction. They’re just saying the Ai300 is a cavity back bc it has a slightly deeper indentation on the back.
You could very well be right, but i wonder if there isn’t more to this story. @xThor ??
I think now that I'm almost in the off season, I need to hit the Fusion's just to see. Not saying I am looking to switch from the Apex Pro/CB combo but there's a sim with my name on it and time to test ....you know......internet golfer style. 
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It’s a really, really interesting mash up of specifications. I can’t wait to hear about why they did that
I know some of the Callaway guys are on here but I really have no idea who to tag. So, I sent an email to Callaway to maybe get a solid answer.
"There is a discussion on TheHackersParadise.com regarding the the Ai300 and Ai200 and why one is considered a "cavity-back" and the other, a "hollow-body" when it appears, at least according to the Callaway website, that the construction/technology of the two models is identical. Can someone explain what differentiates the "cavity-back" designation of the Ai300 vs the "hollow-body" designation of the Ai200?
Thank you"
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My world has been hectic, so BIG props to the boys in here (both testers and purchasers hahaha) keeping this thread on FIRE.
I'm going to grab some pics of my Ti Fusions tomorrow out on the course to show the wear about 25 rounds or so in on them. Honestly, its slowed, and I'm not all that upset about it now. I'll get more into that though with the pics tomorrow.
However, I dooooooooooooooooooooo want to touch on the fact that the performance has been staggering. Coming from Limit3d, I had high expectations for the iron spot, and frankly these keep delivering there. I've now played them here in OK, in OH, and AZ for three entirely different types of golf as well as temperature and wind conditions.
Biggest standout could be the distance, and I think for many it would be, but I'm one who never seeks out distance in my irons because traditionally (and it has happened for me in other testings of irons like the Dynapower Forged) that added length comes with trade-offs in terms of turf interaction and size.
Here though, the Ti are so camouflaged by the darker finish that the size is a non-issue to my eye (and no, they aren't big, I know that, but I'm a forged CB guy because my brain is crazy). Not to mention, I can actually get down and through the turf without them feeling cumbersome at all, and THAT my friends is MASSIVE.
The playability is there, though I do definitely think that they lean to the better ball striker still with the profile and the fact that having hit all three models, I definitely felt like with the 200 and 300 I could get away with murder, where here its more I get away with headbutts and moderate assault.
Anywho, back in the saddle and back on planet earth in my brain, so more tomorrow with the wear and tear, but again, BIG shout out to everyone in here for kicking ass.
I'm going to grab some pics of my Ti Fusions tomorrow out on the course to show the wear about 25 rounds or so in on them. Honestly, its slowed, and I'm not all that upset about it now. I'll get more into that though with the pics tomorrow.
However, I dooooooooooooooooooooo want to touch on the fact that the performance has been staggering. Coming from Limit3d, I had high expectations for the iron spot, and frankly these keep delivering there. I've now played them here in OK, in OH, and AZ for three entirely different types of golf as well as temperature and wind conditions.
Biggest standout could be the distance, and I think for many it would be, but I'm one who never seeks out distance in my irons because traditionally (and it has happened for me in other testings of irons like the Dynapower Forged) that added length comes with trade-offs in terms of turf interaction and size.
Here though, the Ti are so camouflaged by the darker finish that the size is a non-issue to my eye (and no, they aren't big, I know that, but I'm a forged CB guy because my brain is crazy). Not to mention, I can actually get down and through the turf without them feeling cumbersome at all, and THAT my friends is MASSIVE.
The playability is there, though I do definitely think that they lean to the better ball striker still with the profile and the fact that having hit all three models, I definitely felt like with the 200 and 300 I could get away with murder, where here its more I get away with headbutts and moderate assault.
Anywho, back in the saddle and back on planet earth in my brain, so more tomorrow with the wear and tear, but again, BIG shout out to everyone in here for kicking ass.
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IMO, and in my research as well as writing the release article, its not meant as a true CB like we picture in our heads, but the modern CB. Its more phrasing that there is added weight moved and repositioned with the Ai300 thanks to that slight cavity. Because of that cavity, it gets the moniker.
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Also, the 4i is bonkers.My world has been hectic, so BIG props to the boys in here (both testers and purchasers hahaha) keeping this thread on FIRE.
I'm going to grab some pics of my Ti Fusions tomorrow out on the course to show the wear about 25 rounds or so in on them. Honestly, its slowed, and I'm not all that upset about it now. I'll get more into that though with the pics tomorrow.
However, I dooooooooooooooooooooo want to touch on the fact that the performance has been staggering. Coming from Limit3d, I had high expectations for the iron spot, and frankly these keep delivering there. I've now played them here in OK, in OH, and AZ for three entirely different types of golf as well as temperature and wind conditions.
Biggest standout could be the distance, and I think for many it would be, but I'm one who never seeks out distance in my irons because traditionally (and it has happened for me in other testings of irons like the Dynapower Forged) that added length comes with trade-offs in terms of turf interaction and size.
Here though, the Ti are so camouflaged by the darker finish that the size is a non-issue to my eye (and no, they aren't big, I know that, but I'm a forged CB guy because my brain is crazy). Not to mention, I can actually get down and through the turf without them feeling cumbersome at all, and THAT my friends is MASSIVE.
The playability is there, though I do definitely think that they lean to the better ball striker still with the profile and the fact that having hit all three models, I definitely felt like with the 200 and 300 I could get away with murder, where here its more I get away with headbutts and moderate assault.
Anywho, back in the saddle and back on planet earth in my brain, so more tomorrow with the wear and tear, but again, BIG shout out to everyone in here for kicking ass.
The fact that I am actively playing the 4i, as a player who has sworn it off for YEARS in favor of a utility, says a TON. Its high, soft, long, and predictable as hell for me off the tee.
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- #3,168
Also, also....hahahaha
The feel of the Ti off the face remains the most unique sensation in any iron I have tested. It is not at all what anyone who hasn't hit them yet would dare to expect when thinking about a titanium face in an iron.
The feel of the Ti off the face remains the most unique sensation in any iron I have tested. It is not at all what anyone who hasn't hit them yet would dare to expect when thinking about a titanium face in an iron.
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- #3,169
It really would, it would put them into the CB realm shaping and offset wise.
I'm eager to see in 2-3 years when we get the next iteration of Apex, if the Ti Fusion design gets applied in both more compact, and larger, applications.
I have taken a deep dive with the AI 200’s from a few different perspectives. If you are catching up, new to the review or just trying to find some information here are my thoughts so far:
As I continue to make notes on the overall performance, forgiveness and overall playability, I want to dive into an area that really is golfer specific. I will describe it as the “aesthetics” of an iron, but there is much more nuance than that. With so many more layers , let's peel a few back and try to make sense of what is in my brain.
Like any new iron we all focus immediately on the shape and overall looks at address. This is very SUBJECTIVE, and I don’t expect to get anyone to agree on what the baseline should be for a good-looking iron, but as an Apex player who has played each iteration of these irons, I think this is the best looking one yet. I keep trying to find the right words to describe them at address and I keep coming back to “cohesive”. Visually they look refined, with an appealing topline. The Ai200’s frame the ball well & present enough of a visual presentation to give a golfer some confidence that doesn’t look chunky or offensive in anyway.
One of the first questions that is always asked is “But what about the offset”. I will be clear that I have never been one to dismiss an iron because of offset. Not that it’s not important to me, but as my golf ability has evolved, I find myself being fit into irons with less offset that your normal game improvement irons. I know when I look down and see offset if it will bother me or not. Looking down at the Ai200’s you notice the offset, but it is not anything to make me pause or second guess the club. My last iron set were the Apex 21’s and prior to that I played the Mizuno 921 forged. When comparing to the Apex 21’s you can see the offset is almost identical if not tough to differentiate with the naked eye. 7iron comparison below:
It made me search out the offset specs between the two irons and this is how it breaks down:
I’m off to Ballyhack for the UST Finale with THPers that will have irons across several OEM’s. My plan is to take some pictures looking down to help present a better visual on the offset/topline. I think it will be a great way to show how much engineering has gone into the Ai200's to present a "players iron" and still offer forgiveness and spin control away from center.
As I continue to make notes on the overall performance, forgiveness and overall playability, I want to dive into an area that really is golfer specific. I will describe it as the “aesthetics” of an iron, but there is much more nuance than that. With so many more layers , let's peel a few back and try to make sense of what is in my brain.
Like any new iron we all focus immediately on the shape and overall looks at address. This is very SUBJECTIVE, and I don’t expect to get anyone to agree on what the baseline should be for a good-looking iron, but as an Apex player who has played each iteration of these irons, I think this is the best looking one yet. I keep trying to find the right words to describe them at address and I keep coming back to “cohesive”. Visually they look refined, with an appealing topline. The Ai200’s frame the ball well & present enough of a visual presentation to give a golfer some confidence that doesn’t look chunky or offensive in anyway.
One of the first questions that is always asked is “But what about the offset”. I will be clear that I have never been one to dismiss an iron because of offset. Not that it’s not important to me, but as my golf ability has evolved, I find myself being fit into irons with less offset that your normal game improvement irons. I know when I look down and see offset if it will bother me or not. Looking down at the Ai200’s you notice the offset, but it is not anything to make me pause or second guess the club. My last iron set were the Apex 21’s and prior to that I played the Mizuno 921 forged. When comparing to the Apex 21’s you can see the offset is almost identical if not tough to differentiate with the naked eye. 7iron comparison below:
It made me search out the offset specs between the two irons and this is how it breaks down:
- Ai 5i 3.7 mm | Apex 21 5i 4.06 mm
- Ai 6i 3.4 mm | Apex 21 6i 3.56 mm
- Ai 7i 3.1 mm | Apex21 7i 3.05 mm
- Ai 8i 2.7 mm | Apex 21 8i 2.79 mm
- Ai 9i 2.4 mm | Apex 21 9i 2.67 mm
- Ai PW 2.0 mm | Apex 21 PW 2.54 mm
- Ai AW 1.8 mm | Apex 21 AW 2.41 mm
- Ai 5i 3.7 mm | Mizuno 921 Forged 5i 3.60
- Ai 6i 3.4 mm | Mizuno 921 Forged 6i 3.4 mm
- Ai 7i 3.1 mm | Mizuno 921 Forged 7i 3.2 mm
- Ai 8i 2.7 mm | Mizuno 921 Forged 8i 2.99 mm
- Ai 9i 2.4 mm | Mizuno 921 Forged 9i 2.79 mm
- Ai PW 2.0 mm | Mizuno 921 Forged PW 2.59 mm
- Ai AW 1.8 mm | Mizuno 921 Forged AW 2.31 mm
I’m off to Ballyhack for the UST Finale with THPers that will have irons across several OEM’s. My plan is to take some pictures looking down to help present a better visual on the offset/topline. I think it will be a great way to show how much engineering has gone into the Ai200's to present a "players iron" and still offer forgiveness and spin control away from center.
Yeah. It’s like a concept car right? Really cool, gets the brain going, then you refine.
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- #3,172
One bag with 200s and the other with 300s, going to be a blast.
We here on the internet know that how your gear looks matters. Maybe it matters more to some than others, but no one is trying to game ugly clubs. Still, it's not all the time that you pull a club from your bag and think to yourself "man that's a pretty club." It's happened frequently with the Ai200 though. They look good in the bag, in the hand, and behind the ball. Look good, feel good, play good and all that. Enjoy some glamour shots.
There's also just an attention to detail with the stamping and sole design that doesn't get nearly as much attention as the rest of the good looks. The small details are on point everywhere with this set and it's easy to see that they got it right during the long development period.
Behind the ball, I continue to be impressed with the way these clubs hide their offset. I know it's there, but it doesn't look nearly as much as the online specs say it is.
Now, Callaway has been crushing it across all the lines this year, and the Ai Smoke's I'm coming from are no slouches either in the appearance department. But as good as this looks:
It doesn't come anywhere near this:
There's also just an attention to detail with the stamping and sole design that doesn't get nearly as much attention as the rest of the good looks. The small details are on point everywhere with this set and it's easy to see that they got it right during the long development period.
Behind the ball, I continue to be impressed with the way these clubs hide their offset. I know it's there, but it doesn't look nearly as much as the online specs say it is.
Now, Callaway has been crushing it across all the lines this year, and the Ai Smoke's I'm coming from are no slouches either in the appearance department. But as good as this looks:
It doesn't come anywhere near this:
It looks like you are spot on @Jman!
Here's the reply to my email inquiry this afternoon. Thank you #Callaway for the prompt response!
"Hello AZHack,
Ai200 – Undoubtedly a hollow-body construction. No cavity.
Ai300 – It is technically a hollow-body construction, however, there is a cavity in the back which is helping with perimeter weighting, lower CG, etc. Hence, we called it a cavity-back though its more like a hollow body with a cavity.
If I can assist you further, please let me know.
Sincerely,
Simon Ramirez
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- #3,175
It’s like I know things.
