greenOak

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If you're meant to hit it in a pond but not OB, why not make the penalty 2 strokes + distance? Or automatic DQ? At the end of the day stroke + distance is a totally arbitrary penalty.

Also, as to the new OB rule that "lets" someone not have to re-tee, it doesn't really work in practice. If I drill a ball OB, Unless I'm completely fed up and want the round to end, I'm not going to play 4 from the point where it left golf course property (which will be short and in the rough) because on average I'm going to get a better result from re-teeing. The same applies to lost ball penalties. If all you're playing is Sunday league, just make everything a lateral to speed things up - rounds are already painfully slow when you get stuck behind leagues. Its also weird how only golfers seem to have this obsession that you need to follow the rules exactly how they're written regardless of where or what level ones playing. In our low level mens baseball league the strike zone is enormous - definitely not called as listed in the rule book and for good reason. The games would take forever otherwise. Yet somehow the local courses don't give a **** about their leagues taking 5 hours with players hitting provisionals every other hole and looking for balls deep in the trees because the penalty is so steep. On a tangential note, thats one good thing about corona golf - no leagues.
 
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wadesworld

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If you're meant to hit it in a pond but not OB, why not make the penalty 2 strokes + distance? Or automatic DQ? At the end of the day stroke + distance is a totally arbitrary penalty.
At the end of the day, 1-stroke for a lateral hazard is a totally arbitrary penalty.

Also, as to the new OB rule that "lets" someone not have to re-tee, it doesn't really work in practice. If I drill a ball OB, Unless I'm completely fed up and want the round to end, I'm not going to play 4 from the point where it left golf course property (which will be short and in the rough) because on average I'm going to get a better result from re-teeing. The same applies to lost ball penalties. If all you're playing is Sunday league, just make everything a lateral to speed things up - rounds are already painfully slow when you get stuck behind leagues. Its also weird how only golfers seem to have this obsession that you need to follow the rules exactly how they're written regardless of where or what level ones playing. In our low level mens baseball league the strike zone is enormous - definitely not called as listed in the rule book and for good reason. The games would take forever otherwise. Yet somehow the local courses don't give a **** about their leagues taking 5 hours with players hitting provisionals every other hole and looking for balls deep in the trees because the penalty is so steep. On a tangential note, thats one good thing about corona golf - no leagues.
I'm confused on why you think your league needs to follow the rules. Play everything as a lateral hazard if you wish. For that matter, have anyone who hits the ball in a hazard or OB drop it in the center of the fairway. If it makes you feel better about golf, there's nothing stopping you or your league.
 

greenOak

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At the end of the day, 1-stroke for a lateral hazard is a totally arbitrary penalty.

I'm confused on why you think your league needs to follow the rules. Play everything as a lateral hazard if you wish. For that matter, have anyone who hits the ball in a hazard or OB drop it in the center of the fairway. If it makes you feel better about golf, there's nothing stopping you or your league.
Yeah all the penalties are arbitrary, that's kind of my point. Its pointless to discuss whats a fair or unfair penalty.

The leagues could (should) choose to play like this but they don't and its one of the big reasons they clog the course up. They ought to adopt rules that allow them to finish in a reasonable amount of time but would rather follow the rules to the book and slow everybody down in the process.
 

wadesworld

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Yeah all the penalties are arbitrary, that's kind of my point. Its pointless to discuss whats a fair or unfair penalty.

The leagues could (should) choose to play like this but they don't and its one of the big reasons they clog the course up. They ought to adopt rules that allow them to finish in a reasonable amount of time but would rather follow the rules to the book and slow everybody down in the process.
That's the fault of the league, not the rules, IMHO.

There are numerous 2-stroke penalties in the rules of golf. The OB rule gets complained about far more than any other. The honest answer is that's not because of a fundamental flaw in the reasoning. The honest answer is people complain about the OB rule because they violate it so frequently and they don't like what it does to their score and thus, their ego. Especially with the new local rule, there's no reason to complain about having to go back to the tee (which nobody did except in tournaments anyway). Go to the edge of the fairway, drop and charge yourself two strokes. Every bit as efficient as the lateral hazard rule. But the problem is not the procedure, it's that people don't like writing down a triple.

That's the honest truth. If you kept the exact same procedures, or even went back to the old procedures but made it just a 1-stroke penalty with no loss of distance or even no penalty, people would cheer so loud we'd make contact with aliens.
 

greenOak

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I already said why the new 2 strokes where it went out rule doesn't work. Unless you're absolute garbage off the tee, it makes more sense from a statistical standpoint to rehit. It has nothing to do with not wanting to write down triple because unless you're low single digits or better, you're likely to card triple with either OB penalty.
 

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I already said why the new 2 strokes where it went out rule doesn't work. Unless you're absolute garbage off the tee, it makes more sense from a statistical standpoint to rehit. It has nothing to do with not wanting to write down triple because unless you're low single digits or better, you're likely to card triple with either OB penalty.
If the local rule doesn't work, then neither would treating it as a lateral. You'd be dropping no further up the hole. You're dropping in nearly the same spot under either scenario. The reason why "treat it like a lateral hazard" is acceptable is because of the reduced penalty.
 

greenOak

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No, the reason why treating it like a lateral hazard works is that your better off hitting 3 at the point of entry than hitting 3 off the tee. You are not better off hitting 4 at the point of entry than you are hitting 3 off the tee.

If OB was treated as a lateral, I would pretty much never retee after hitting it OB. I'm re-teeing almost all the time under the point of entry + 2 strokes penalty. Same thing goes for dense trees where the ball will almost certainly be lost (a more common offender than OB areas).
 

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At the end of the day, 1-stroke for a lateral hazard is a totally arbitrary penalty.



I'm confused on why you think your league needs to follow the rules. Play everything as a lateral hazard if you wish. For that matter, have anyone who hits the ball in a hazard or OB drop it in the center of the fairway. If it makes you feel better about golf, there's nothing stopping you or your league.
One penalty for one bad swing doesn’t seem arbitrary. It seems logical.
 
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LICC

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I already said why the new 2 strokes where it went out rule doesn't work. Unless you're absolute garbage off the tee, it makes more sense from a statistical standpoint to rehit. It has nothing to do with not wanting to write down triple because unless you're low single digits or better, you're likely to card triple with either OB penalty.
The new local rule for OB allows the drop to be in the fairway closest to where the ball went OB, with a two stroke penalty. Regardless, it’s still nonsense to not treat it the same as a lateral hazard.
 

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But you don’t play a ball submerged at the bottom of a pond. It is physically and practically impossible. No different from a results standpoint from OB.
You can if the depth allows.
 

OGputtnfool

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I don't think @greenOak is familiar with the new rule re: OB drops.
 

OGputtnfool

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Please find me one example where anyone hit a golf shot on a ball that was 100% submerged in a pond or lake.
Been there. Done that.
 

RealPretendPsychic

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Please find me one example where anyone hit a golf shot on a ball that was 100% submerged in a pond or lake.
I think it’s been done a time or two.
 

BigDill

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I think it’s been done a time or two.
The best part of that video was him putting on his full rain gear before the shot. Goodness that guy is insufferable. It's on 18 man, just go change after the hole.
 

RealPretendPsychic

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The best part of that video was him putting on his full rain gear before the shot. Goodness that guy is insufferable. It's on 18 man, just go change after the hole.
Seriously! (Ball not fully submerged here.) Just strip down to your undies like Woodland!
 

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That video proves my point. Not one submerged ball was able to be played.
What're you talking about? At 0:34, he definitely played the ball.
 

RealPretendPsychic

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The ball went sideways. Look at the replay.
I believe he advanced it 25 yards into the fairway, but I’m so lost in this argument I don’t know what’s going on. I didn’t hit OB yesterday though, so that’s a plus.
 

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greenOak

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I don't think @greenOak is familiar with the new rule re: OB drops.
No I’m well aware of the new rule for OB / lost ball drops. The problem is the 2 stroke penalty makes re-teeing the preferable option, so most everyone just re-tees anyways.

It doesn’t matter that you can drop in the fairway since you’ll likely be dropping it so far back. Now if you crush a 300 yard drive that goes OB by an inch, than yeah dropping where it went out + 2 strokes is looking like a good option. Unfortunately, most OB drives are 150 yard snap hooks / banana slices.
 
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greenOak

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That is your big evidence to support this theory that you can hit balls on the bottom of ponds? That among the greatest skilled golfers in the world, for a ball right at the edge of a pond, you can clank one sideways? Ok then ...
Also, let‘s be the real that ball was probably under 2 inches of water max. Over 99% of the time you hit it into a pond it’s unplayable.
 

OGputtnfool

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That is your big evidence to support this theory that you can hit balls on the bottom of ponds? That among the greatest skilled golfers in the world, for a ball right at the edge of a pond, you can clank one sideways? Ok then ...
It's not a theory. You've asked multiple time and have been shown several times that it IS possible to play a submerged ball.

Rule #51.
 

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