NEhomer

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You make a compelling argument. I think we should also revert all the latest changes back to the "good ole days" to make it even harder. This game should be hard. I think we should get rid of graphite shafts, woods should really be made of wood, and get rid of all of these pansy-ass carts. Walking is the only true way to play golf. Riding on an electric mobile thingy is cheating.

After all, if there is one thing we can all agree on, is that golf is to easy with all of us hitting 350 yard drives, 15k spin balls, and greens that are absolutely flat. (y)😁;)


Side note: Nobody wants to eliminate "ruin on the golf course". The difficulty in NOT hitting the ball into the OB or Hazard doesn't change magically because it is 1 stroke vs 2 stroke penalty. Does it affect a golfers attitude? Possibly. But I still postulate that golfers good enough to change their targets effectively due to beign 1 stroke vs 2 stroke penalty PROBABLY weren't going in there to begin with. The folks not good enough to control the shot won't be impacted either since they can't control it even if it was a 3 stroke penalty.


Counter argument: As @HipCheck mentioned in his post, should OB actually go back to a 3 stroke penalty from 1846? Would that offer MORE protection and safety for off course excursions in today's long hitter, house encroachment, era of golf?
I know, let's make golf even harder. Not only should OB be more penal but let's make penalty areas tougher too. If you hit your ball into a penalty area, you have NO CHOICE but to hit out of it. Can't see it at the bottom of the pond? Tough break for you.
No, it should remain stroke and distance buttercups. Going over the top with exaggerations does not strengthen your argument. Why didn't you include blindfolding players? That would have been a good one.
 

~QQ~

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I think the OB rule for golf courses in neighborhoods is harsh. Every hole on my course has OB left and right. I lost 6 strokes the other day being OB by no more than 3 feet in each case. In addition, making some people re-tee their drive just makes them put it into another house. It's dangerous. Just make it a lateral, it'll speed up play too.
 

Tevenor

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No, it should remain stroke and distance buttercups. Going over the top with exaggerations does not strengthen your argument. Why didn't you include blindfolding players? That would have been a good one.
OOOOhhhhh that's a good one. We could also talk about adding wind mills to putting greens. :p:D


I am fine leaving as is. I am not on the USGA rules committee. But other than "to protect peoples property/safety", I haven't heard any reason other than "because its the rule!" why this one couldn't be a mandatory, must drop 1 stroke penalty ( no playing out like in a hazard/other penalty areas ) with a 1 or 2 club drop range and call it done. Nobody is for hitting balls off of railroad tracks, peoples lawns or living rooms, back seats of cars, etc. And making the penalty 2 strokes, 3 strokes or 8 strokes, doesn't really change someones ability to not hit into that penalty area. The skill of the guy on the tee doesn't change just because it costs more strokes if you hit there. The 2 stroke penalty does't make the course easier to play, it makes it harder to score for only certain skill golfers.
 

LICC

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A pond is an obstacle within the confines of the course designed to be avoided and is completely different to being outside of the course boundary

Just because you can't play your ball from within the water (although it has been done by numerous players over the years) doesn't mean it should be treated differently to completely leaving the defined boundary of the course
You keep saying that, but you aren't giving any valid reason why that makes any difference.

And you cannot physically play a ball submerged at the bottom of a pond.
 

HipCheck

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I can understand OB. On a local private course, my second shot on a par 5 came to rest 3 inches over the OB line once. It was literally in the yard of a good friend's of mine. No reason I shouldn't be able to play it, but that's the rule. That sucks, but everyone is playing the same course, so the rules universally apply.

At the same time, if that's a hazard stake, I can just play it. But if it's a pond, I (most likely) couldn't. Golf is tough, guys.

Now if you have internal OB, your golf course was built in the wrong place.

Counter argument: As @HipCheck mentioned in his post, should OB actually go back to a 3 stroke penalty from 1846? Would that offer MORE protection and safety for off course excursions in today's long hitter, house encroachment, era of golf?
This is interesting...
 

Snowman

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...But other than "to protect peoples property/safety", I haven't heard any reason other than "because its the rule!" why this one couldn't be a mandatory, must drop 1 stroke penalty ( no playing out like in a hazard/other penalty areas ) with a 1 or 2 club drop range and call it done. Nobody is for hitting balls off of railroad tracks, peoples lawns or living rooms, back seats of cars, etc. And making the penalty 2 strokes, 3 strokes or 8 strokes, doesn't really change someones ability to not hit into that penalty area. The skill of the guy on the tee doesn't change just because it costs more strokes if you hit there. The 2 stroke penalty does't make the course easier to play, it makes it harder to score for only certain skill golfers.
That's exactly where the "protection" argument falls apart for me. Most golfers don't intentionally hit OB - for me, it's invariably the unintended result of a bad shot. The penalty could be zero strokes or twenty strokes, it's not going to "protect" anything, nor is it going to do anything to influence the chances of me inadvertently doing it once in a while. I wasn't aiming there and didn't intend to go there, but no matter how many penalty strokes it costs or how much I aim away from it, my ball will still occasionally end up there. In most cases it's penalizing lack of skill/talent more than shot choice - better golfers aren't going to hit that nasty pull/snap hook or banana ball slice as often. If anything, hazards within the course boundaries should carry a heavier penalty because golfers intentionally take those on a lot more often than they do OB.

IMO, designing courses where some players may intentionally try to hit over OB, such as cutting the corner on a dogleg over houses, is poor course design and a product of greedy developers. Don't want people cutting corners and hitting houses? Don't design the course that way and don't put houses there, because you know some golfers are going to try it no matter what. Put a water hazard on the dogleg, or some particularly nasty bunkers, or tall fescue rough - that would probably discourage more golfers from trying it.
 

TheDoctor

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You keep saying that, but you aren't giving any valid reason why that makes any difference.

And you cannot physically play a ball submerged at the bottom of a pond.
Hazard - obstacle on the course
OB - you are off the course

It is quite obvious what the difference is, and therefore is perfectly reasonable to apply a different penalty to the situation

As for your pond argument, what about the times when a player has played from just within the hazard where the ball is submerged - if you want to argue a point, that ball is still submerged and has been played
 

Mabuckeye

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Play it as a lateral - but not be able to play it as it lies....
 

greenOak

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That's exactly where the "protection" argument falls apart for me. Most golfers don't intentionally hit OB - for me, it's invariably the unintended result of a bad shot. The penalty could be zero strokes or twenty strokes, it's not going to "protect" anything, nor is it going to do anything to influence the chances of me inadvertently doing it once in a while. I wasn't aiming there and didn't intend to go there, but no matter how many penalty strokes it costs or how much I aim away from it, my ball will still occasionally end up there. In most cases it's penalizing lack of skill/talent more than shot choice - better golfers aren't going to hit that nasty pull/snap hook or banana ball slice as often. If anything, hazards within the course boundaries should carry a heavier penalty because golfers intentionally take those on a lot more often than they do OB.

IMO, designing courses where some players may intentionally try to hit over OB, such as cutting the corner on a dogleg over houses, is poor course design and a product of greedy developers. Don't want people cutting corners and hitting houses? Don't design the course that way and don't put houses there, because you know some golfers are going to try it no matter what. Put a water hazard on the dogleg, or some particularly nasty bunkers, or tall fescue rough - that would probably discourage more golfers from trying it.
Couldnt agree more. Over 90% of the time I hit it OB, it’s because I’ve missed my aimline by over 50 yards. It doesn’t really matter what the penalty is, If I hit my big miss it could go anywhere on or off the course.

On a similar note, interior OB is total ********. It’s almost always the result of poorly designed holes and in my experience most of them could fixed by planting a couple small trees eliminating the ability to take ridiculous lines off the tee.
 

millsan1

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I like to concept of OB = put ball in play, two club lengths from where it went out, 1 stroke penalty, and let's move on.
 

hakkergolf

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I really like the OB rule on tour. Makes those boys a bit more nervous, doesn't negatively impact me at all while watching at home.

There is a local rule that can be applied using the USGA rules that allows for a drop rather than a re-tee that I don't mind being implemented - We have it in place at my course. But, two strokes is what it should cost, for sure. OB is OB.
I agree with that.

DJ never should have hit the ball over there anyway. He had a 3 stroke lead. Club down and play the percentages. If he was mad at the rule/penalty, then he should have played smart. That was his fault, not the rules.

It's at the point now, guys like DJ, Brooks, DeChambeau and other long hitters will hit it as long as they can. These guys are so good now that hazards are not hazards (except for OB and water). They can typically hit out from trees, hit opposite-handed, they practice for all the scenarios.

Most everyone on tour has no problem hitting out of bunkers. In fact, they aim at them. When they know they can't land it on the green (too much slope or too fast) they land in the sand to stop it green high because they know they can get out of the bunker easy enough.

Also, now with COVID, you see other things happening. Because there are no fans on the course, they don't need the grandstands. So any pros who are now overhitting greens, are finding their ball is usually in a terrible lie because there are no grandstands to stop their ball. I would play for every pin location from any distance if I knew my ball was going to stop 10 yards past the green, typically still on good grass.

They get relief if their ball was up against any grandstands but now they aren't there, so they have to be more careful.

If anything should change, they should not wrap the bottom of the grandstands and if their ball goes under they are either penalized or they have a drop zone that is not a manicured area. Or move the grandstands back further, but that won't happen as it will not look good on TV and fans paying will be too far away (but not really).

The pros are just too good, to have the extra backstop behind greens is not good for the game and not penalize them for marked out of bounds. Again, DJ could have hit 3W off the tee and not been in trouble.

My 2 cents.
 

HipCheck

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Also, now with COVID, you see other things happening. Because there are no fans on the course, they don't need the grandstands. So any pros who are now overhitting greens, are finding their ball is usually in a terrible lie because there are no grandstands to stop their ball. I would play for every pin location from any distance if I knew my ball was going to stop 10 yards past the green, typically still on good grass.

They get relief if their ball was up against any grandstands but now they aren't there, so they have to be more careful.
I love seeing this, BTW.
 

pattyboy21

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It's just such a harsh penalty. Playing "desert rules" in Phoenix reminded me that the OB rule sucks! Of course, a lost ball in the desert is very common, even right off the fairway and the same rule applies.
 

InTheRough

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But if I own a house bordering the golf course and my ball lands in my back yard, is it really out of bounds? :unsure: Of course if your ball lands there, it becomes my ball. :ROFLMAO:
 

tahoebum

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Whoever always plays away from OB would do the same for a pond.
Disagree. I definitely play away from OB when it is within 15 yards of the edge of the fairway and I rarely aim away from a lateral hazard to the same degree. OB costs me two shots and dumping it in a lateral hazard is only 1 shot.
 

MrDC

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It's a tough one because it's not always so clear where to drop with lateral OB, the player can walk 50 yds up the fairway from where his ball actually went out and take advantage. who's to stop him? and with just one stroke lost he's in great shape.

But the courses here on LI are often very woodsy, with deep tree lined fairways, this is an affordable golf course setup, they're not removing all the trees and planting grass that needs to be watered constantly. But OB/Lost ball is in play very, very often and it's not uncommon to see trouble left off the tee and then right for your approach, or vice versa, so this rule often hurts us bad.

The Pros don't often play courses like this, they need room for the large galleries, deep woods around every hole wouldn't work. So once again the Pros often get an advantage over us. But I guess I'm still on the fence, I really hate losing 2 strokes after hitting a decent shot that just trickles out or can't be found in the rough.
 

LICC

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Disagree. I definitely play away from OB when it is within 15 yards of the edge of the fairway and I rarely aim away from a lateral hazard to the same degree. OB costs me two shots and dumping it in a lateral hazard is only 1 shot.
I would guess you are in the small minority.
 

Nocklaus

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Ob means out of bounds. Don't hit it there and you dont have a problem. It's part of the game. You know it when you are on the tee, so avoid.
 

Nocklaus

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It's a tough one because it's not always so clear where to drop with lateral OB, the player can walk 50 yds up the fairway from where his ball actually went out and take advantage. who's to stop him? and with just one stroke lost he's in great shape.

But the courses here on LI are often very woodsy, with deep tree lined fairways, this is an affordable golf course setup, they're not removing all the trees and planting grass that needs to be watered constantly. But OB/Lost ball is in play very, very often and it's not uncommon to see trouble left off the tee and then right for your approach, or vice versa, so this rule often hurts us bad.

The Pros don't often play courses like this, they need room for the large galleries, deep woods around every hole wouldn't work. So once again the Pros often get an advantage over us. But I guess I'm still on the fence, I really hate losing 2 strokes after hitting a decent shot that just trickles out or can't be found in the rough.
I guess it is not a decent shot if you hit it ob.
 

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OGputtnfool

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You keep saying that, but you aren't giving any valid reason why that makes any difference.

And you cannot physically play a ball submerged at the bottom of a pond.
Depends on how deep the pond is.
 

Nocklaus

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other than "that's just the rule" I've yet to hear a valid reason that water is played differently than ob. to me it's asinine that we have yellow, white and red stakes. what is the rational for this? just change the rule so every ball in a hazard is played the exact same way, and structure it in a way to maintain a reasonable pace of play. I say everything should be played like a red take, but remove the ability to hit it if you can find it. drop on the line it entered the hazard. done.
Every ball in a hazard is played the same. Ob is not a hazard. Don't hit it there. If you do or are not sure, hit a provisional and move on.
 

OGputtnfool

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I'm guessing that was directed at me. I didn't say OB was a hazard.
 

McLovin

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Every ball in a hazard is played the same. Ob is not a hazard. Don't hit it there. If you do or are not sure, hit a provisional and move on.
fair enough. enjoy your pedantry. in the meantime, i'll keep championing my suggestion to streamline the rules while protecting pace and property within a passable perversion of pageantry.
 

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