Cleveland Smart Sole Wedges

[JB]

Im not going to lie, I am completely confused.
All I am saying is that you seemed to put the Smart Sole clubs in the category as super game improvement (which they are) and keep the Niblick line as something different. They are not different, they are both designed with a similar golfer in mind and their goal is to assist a trouble shot.

FWIW, while we openly commented on the design of the Niblick line and how it works on full swings, it was never the goal and the different lofts were not released at the same time.

 

[bobcat]

Im not going to lie, I am completely confused.
All I am saying is that you seemed to put the Smart Sole clubs in the category as super game improvement (which they are) and keep the Niblick line as something different. They are not different, they are both designed with a similar golfer in mind and their goal is to assist a trouble shot.

FWIW, while we openly commented on the design of the Niblick line and how it works on full swings, it was never the goal and the different lofts were not released at the same time.

I'll try once more to alleviate your confusion. Lets not too hung up on club class semantics here. Forget about GI, SGI, Players clubs, etc. and focus on how either line of these Cleveland clubs CAN be used, and the TYPE of player that CAN benefit from them.

I happen to be a low handicapper who is able to benefit greatly from the (3) 2011 Niblicks plus a 60* Low Bounce LW. The transition from (3) conventional wedges to the Niblicks was seamless from a full swing distance standpoint, but with a nice improvement to my chipping and pitching game primarily due to the Niblick clubhead design and the more upright lie angles. Just a different style of wedge that is better for my particular game than a conventional-styled PW, GW, or SW. That said, the cosmetics matching Cleveland CG-16 Black Pearl 60* Loft 8* bounce LW is also a very integral part of my wedge set. The lower bounce on the conventional Lob Wedge offsets the high bounce (14*) of the Niblick SW for certain lies where the higher bounce could pose a problem, (i.e. downhill sand lie, hardpan, etc.)

Since I can't see these same advantages from the (2) Smart Soles for my game, the (2) lines of Cleveland clubs you may think are similar don't seem at all similar to me. As previously stated, the design of the Smart Soles seem targeted more for my wife's golf game than for mine.

 

[JB]

Im going to move along. It is very hard to have someone discuss how a club can be used when they have not tried it and for some reason are struggling to understand how so many low handicap (as you called them) are not seeing the issues that you say would exist. If one wants to believe that a club is more versatile or "different" than it is, all the power to them as long as they are enjoying the game.

Glad you found clubs you enjoy.

 

[bobcat]

Im going to move along. It is very hard to have someone discuss how a club can be used when they have not tried it and for some reason are struggling to understand how so many low handicap (as you called them) are not seeing the issues that you say would exist. If one wants to believe that a club is more versatile or "different" than it is, all the power to them as long as they are enjoying the game.

Glad you found clubs you enjoy.

I dont need to try the Smart Soles for the same reason I don't need to try the Altitudes that you also seem to like. Clearly neither line is suitable for me. Sorry if my explanation(s) were hard for you to understand. Certain clubs work for certain people, on that we can agree!

 

[War Eagle]

I dont need to try the Smart Soles for the same reason I don't need to try the Altitudes that you also seem to like. Clearly neither line is suitable for me. Sorry if my explanation(s) were hard for you to understand.

But... why not try them? I mean, how do you know they wont improve your game unless you try them?

 

[JB]

But... why not try them? I mean, how do you know they wont improve your game unless you try them?

I am so confused by the last two pages.
First they are less versatile than Niblicks (which is not correct)
Then they are less for full swings than Niblicks (also not correct)
Then they are SGI where as the Niblicks are for everybody (not correct)

Im just confused. The gentlemen seems like a knowledgeable guy and a solid golfer, I am just surprised by the noticeable differences in versatility between the niblick line and this line without trying both. FWIW, every single person that we have been to at THP events or gatherings seems to think the exact opposite when both are in their hands.

Personally I think they are both fine pieces of equipment. The smart sole line being the evolution from the Niblick line by the R&D team and they love where the line has gone.

 

[TRyan]

I dont need to try the Smart Soles for the same reason I don't need to try the Altitudes that you also seem to like. Clearly neither line is suitable for me. Sorry if my explanation(s) were hard for you to understand. Certain clubs work for certain people, on that we can agree!

I dont get it? JB is a low capper, he found the Altitudes to work for him as well as the Smart Sole, how can you say they don't work if you haven't even tried them?

 

[War Eagle]

I am so confused by the last two pages.
First they are less versatile than Niblicks (which is not correct)
Then they are less for full swings than Niblicks (also not correct)
Then they are SGI where as the Niblicks are for everybody (not correct)

Im just confused. The gentlemen seems like a knowledgeable guy and a solid golfer, I am just surprised by the noticeable differences in versatility between the niblick line and this line without trying both. FWIW, every single person that we have been to at THP events or gatherings seems to think the exact opposite when both are in their hands.

Honest question for you;

The first round we ever played together, I was a mid-teens if not higher index, and gamed a Niblick like it was my job. My handicap has dropped significantly since then, and I now game the S Wedge instead of a Niblick. My skill has improved, but which would you say has had a better impact on my short game?

For me, I know the answer. And it's the S Wedge, without a doubt.

 

[Jman]

I dont need to try the Smart Soles for the same reason I don't need to try the Altitudes that you also seem to like. Clearly neither line is suitable for me. Sorry if my explanation(s) were hard for you to understand. Certain clubs work for certain people, on that we can agree!

I consider myself a pretty damn solid ballstriker with my irons, are the altitudes suitable for me? Because I rocked the hell out of those things.

Same with the Smart Sole, I can play any shot with a low bounce 58 from 115 and in, but the Smart Sole worked just as well.

All clubs are suitable for everyone, its if the user will LET them be.

 

[JB]

Honest question for you;

The first round we ever played together, I was a mid-teens if not higher index, and gamed a Niblick like it was my job. My handicap has dropped significantly since then, and I now game the S Wedge instead of a Niblick. My skill has improved, but which would you say has had a better impact on my short game?

For me, I know the answer. And it's the S Wedge, without a doubt.

I think they both worked well for you. The Niblick taught you a bit to stay down and have firmer hands through the stroke. This one adds a bit of versatility due to the shape. I think what you found with this one is due to weight placement and shape, you seem to be able to play more shots with this.

So in that aspect, this has worked better for you. I think both are solid clubs, but I do believe that the Smart Sole line is a solid evolution from the niblick line.

 

[War Eagle]

I consider myself a pretty damn solid ballstriker with my irons, are the altitudes suitable for me? Because I rocked the hell out of those things.

Same with the Smart Sole, I can play any shot with a low bounce 58 from 115 and in, but the Smart Sole worked just as well.

All clubs are suitable for everyone, its if the user will LET them be.

Well... Did you ever see me hit the Altitudes? Those things HATED me.

 

[War Eagle]

I think they both worked well for you. The Niblick taught you a bit to stay down and have firmer hands through the stroke. This one adds a bit of versatility due to the shape. I think what you found with this one is due to weight placement and shape, you seem to be able to play more shots with this.

So in that aspect, this has worked better for you. I think both are solid clubs, but I do believe that the Smart Sole line is a solid evolution from the niblick line.

EXACTLY!

I just dont understand some things, but whatever. The Smart Sole line is an EVOLUTION of the Niblick line, without a doubt, but some wont believe it, I guess.

 

[bobcat]

But... why not try them? I mean, how do you know they wont improve your game unless you try them?

The simple answer is that I don't buy or try clubs that don't appeal to my eye and don't seem well-designed or well-suited for my particular game. The Niblicks plus conventional LW are a better setup for me. Of course, if I was struggling from the sand, perhaps I would feel differently. I am quite pleased with my current set up and the results I am seeing. My interest in Smart Soles is because I am considering them for my wife. If I decide to buy them for her, I'll have the opportunity to try them, but the Smart Soles will never see my bag. Just not right for me!

 

[Jman]

Well... Did you ever see me hit the Altitudes? Those things HATED me.

Hahahaha, yes, yes they did.

I'll admit that I am OPENLY biased about looks and such of clubs as far as what I want and that why I "like" certain things more, BUT, I know the REGARDLESS of the classification of them, I can play them if I LET MYSELF. The Alts proved that and I put up some remarkable scores for me. Its all a personal choice IMO.

 

[War Eagle]

I don't buy or try clubs that don't appeal to my eye and don't seem well-designed or well-suited for my particular game. The Niblicks plus conventional LW are a better setup for me. Of course, if I was struggling from the sand, perhaps I would feel differently. I am quite pleased with my current set up and the results I am seeing. My interest in Smart Soles is because I am considering them for my wife. If I decide to buy them for her, I'll have the opportunity to try them, but the Smart Soles will never see my bag.

I hear ya dude, the large sole really annoys me when I look down on it at address.

 

[Bullitt5339]

My first round with the S in the bag will be Friday with about 11 other THPers. Talk about trial by fire.

 

[War Eagle]

My first round with the S in the bag will be Friday with about 11 other THPers. Talk about trial by fire.

I'll be there. Be sure to come and find me and tell me how awesome it is.

 

[Jman]

I don't buy or try clubs that don't appeal to my eye and don't seem well-designed or well-suited for my particular game. The Niblicks plus conventional LW are a better setup for me. Of course, if I was struggling from the sand, perhaps I would feel differently. I am quite pleased with my current set up and the results I am seeing. My interest in Smart Soles is because I am considering them for my wife. If I decide to buy them for her, I'll have the opportunity to try them, but the Smart Soles will never see my bag.

Struggling in the sand or not, if they help or make it easier, then why not? They're suited for LOTS of games, if the user LETS them be.

 

[MWard]

The smart sole wedge confused me. It was very easy to hit all around the green and on everything from pitches to full swings. If I had bigger issues with pitching and chipping even as a low handicap, these would be a god send. Even as a low handicap, they hit shots my J40's were also capable of doing. You just couldn't open the face to increase loft, but you could just adjust your stance and ball position to create a similar shot.

The only place I didn't get along with them was in the bunker of all places. Then again, I'm used to opening the face up and playing from there. A regular length bunker shot had no problem. A short sided bunker shot had problems but I'd need more than 3 swings to get used to how to play that shot with such a change from what I'm used to.

War, didn't we even do a side by side short game test with these?

 

[JB]

War, Jman or Mward,
All of you have tried or played a Niblick and all of you have tried or played with this wedge. Is there anything that the Niblick is capable of that this is not? I just do not understand and am trying to wrap my evidently puny brain around it. I even put a call into the guy behind these things.

 

[bobcat]

I dont get it? JB is a low capper, he found the Altitudes to work for him as well as the Smart Sole, how can you say they don't work if you haven't even tried them?

I am a very high ball hitter as it is, so I don't need or want more elevation and furthermore don't like the way they look. I prefer the TT series with Project X shafts to help keep the ball down with a more penetrating trajectory. Everyone's game is different that is why there are so many different types of clubs...

 

[Jman]

War, Jman or Mward,
All of you have tried or played a Niblick and all of you have tried or played with this wedge. Is there anything that the Niblick is capable of that this is not? I just do not understand and am trying to wrap my evidently puny brain around it. I even put a call into the guy behind these things.

I hit the SS the same damn way I hit my Niblicks, from everywhere. Traps, partials, full swings. I used it on all of them, does everything the Nibs did and does it in a higher lofted package that was effective as hell for me both in spin and accuracy.

 

[Bullitt5339]

I typically don't have much problem getting out of the sand to begin with. For a standard bunker shot, I usually do the best with a square face technique to begin with. I can open the face on my 58 to get some extra height if need be, but I don't seem to be consistent when I open the face up.

So I guess these were really designed for someone like me.

 

[War Eagle]

The smart sole wedge confused me. It was very easy to hit all around the green and on everything from pitches to full swings. If I had bigger issues with pitching and chipping even as a low handicap, these would be a god send. Even as a low handicap, they hit shots my J40's were also capable of doing. You just couldn't open the face to increase loft, but you could just adjust your stance and ball position to create a similar shot.

The only place I didn't get along with them was in the bunker of all places. Then again, I'm used to opening the face up and playing from there. A regular length bunker shot had no problem. A short sided bunker shot had problems but I'd need more than 3 swings to get used to how to play that shot with such a change from what I'm used to.

War, didn't we even do a side by side short game test with these?

Yes, we did a side by side comparison and you were baffled. There was not a shot either of us could call up that we could not execute with great results. And, results were shown to be better with the smart sole.

 

[War Eagle]

War, Jman or Mward,
All of you have tried or played a Niblick and all of you have tried or played with this wedge. Is there anything that the Niblick is capable of that this is not? I just do not understand and am trying to wrap my evidently puny brain around it. I even put a call into the guy behind these things.

The niblick has a few short comings that the s wedge does not. Most notably the leading edge being significantly larger in the niblick. The niblick did not perform well from the sand. I find the smart sole wedges to be far more versatile than the niblicks... And I love a niblick