Common Core

[Bucketsofjoy]

We're definitely not huge fans of common core in our district, and I don't have enough personal experience with it to really make my own judgement, but here is a thought... CC math is attempting to teach kids to solve the problems more in their heads - not instead of the way we learned, but alongside it. So much of what we learned is just done on a calculator now, it doesn't exactly justify the years I spent "carrying the one" and whatnot. (yes, teacher lady. We do always have access to a calculator.) I would hope that the CC math thinking might complement technology more than how I learned. CC might be more about the learning process itself than just simply arriving at a destination. I don't agree with the common core idea at all, but there's a thought.

Oh, I forgot to mention that I made a 36 on the ACT in math, so my opinion is more valuable

 

[fuffle master]

I agree 100% !!!

Unfortunately, the "Everyday Math" program that I was referring to was a program devised out of the University of Chicago, it wasn't based on balancing check books, or using math in an everyday environment. It was based on mostly estimations, allowing the kids to "have fun" with the curriculum. Too bad it did not really translate into what it was supposed to be. My wife did some research on it and there was a very low percentage of school systems that recommended using the program, Our school system recognized that the kids did not know basic math skills when they reached the middle school level and had to use a "connections math program" to attempt to get them up to speed so they would have a chance at the High School level programs, Algebra, Geometry, etc ….
They did finally abandon the program, but unfortunately all of my kids had to endure that mess.

I think you are going to see a resurgence in "personal finance" courses. I introduced this to our curriculum to become a graduation requirement for our incoming freshman class. I agree and many of our teachers are on board that having a personal finance course should be something all students need to complete their education toward graduation.

 

[JoeHatesSnow]

We're definitely not huge fans of common core in our district, and I don't have enough personal experience with it to really make my own judgement, but here is a thought... CC math is attempting to teach kids to solve the problems more in their heads - not instead of the way we learned, but alongside it. So much of what we learned is just done on a calculator now, it doesn't exactly justify the years I spent "carrying the one" and whatnot. (yes, teacher lady. We do always have access to a calculator.) I would hope that the CC math thinking might complement technology more than how I learned. CC might be more about the learning process itself than just simply arriving at a destination. I don't agree with the common core idea at all, but there's a thought.

Oh, I forgot to mention that I made a 36 on the ACT in math, so my opinion is more valuable

I agree. If I've got to do the example problem in my head I'm doing it the CC way, not the way I was taught way back when. If instruction is supposed to be all about the right answer and the 'real world' then why not stop the charade and just let them use their smart phones for everything? We are all infinitely more likely to have a phone than a pencil and paper to scratch out a math problem.

 

[scott.french3]

Texas did not force CC on the kids.

 

[Grins]

You are a teacher if you instructed your students to do research or perform the project with one method and the student ignored that and used their own method, are you telling me you wouldn't care that they ignored your instruction and still give full credit?

If they show their work (i.e., show their thinking) somehow, yes I give full credit. Different ways to solve a problem.
I teach HS science, so the common core examples shown here are more elementary school, which is not an apples-to-apples comparison IMO.

In my physics classes, I let students know that the correct answer counts for "x" points, and showing your thought process (thinking out loud on paper) counts for "Y" points. If you just right the answer & show no work, you don't get full credit.

Is this fair? Sure. When I worked as a design engineer (Seawolf class submarines) the US Government required written reports showing all calculations. It was part of the job. I could not just say "trust me, that's the correct number." Communicating your knowledge to others is a really important life skill. That's part of your grade too.

 

[MagicSpell]

While not related to Common Core, this discussion reminds me of my 7th grade math class (yes, I can still remember that far back, lol). Part of our math that year was learning about probability and statistics. To teach us about probability our teacher used a mock casino simulation in the classroom. It really made learning about probability a lot of fun.
Unfortunately, after some parents found out what she was doing they complained and forced her to stop using that curriculum. We (the students) were pissed!

 

[Grins]

While not related to Common Core, this discussion reminds me of my 7th grade math class (yes, I can still remember that far back, lol). Part of our math that year was learning about probability and statistics. To teach us about probability our teacher used a mock casino simulation in the classroom. It really made learning about probability a lot of fun.
Unfortunately, after some parents found out what she was doing they complained and forced her to stop using that curriculum. We (the students) were pissed!

Haha! My physics teacher was always trying to get the school to buy a pool table so he could use it to demonstrate reflections and the particle model of light. No dice (pun intended)

Some people have no imagination (and some have too much, I guess)

 

[Junkyard]

As others have said, there is always more than one way to get to the correct answer. This method has served me fairly well over the years.

 

[leftshot]

We're definitely not huge fans of common core in our district, and I don't have enough personal experience with it to really make my own judgement, but here is a thought... CC math is attempting to teach kids to solve the problems more in their heads

So why can't any of these kids count change?

 

[Bucketsofjoy]

So why can't any of these kids count change?

Same reason they don’t know how to change out an ink strip on a type writer maybe? I don’t know, man. Maybe ask them?

 

[leftshot]

Same reason they don’t know how to change out an ink strip on a type writer maybe? I don’t know, man. Maybe ask them?

I have...and many teachers required to teach Common Core. Based on what they've told me, it seems that in practice they really aren't emphasizing understanding the principles or concepts, no matter how often the CC architects and advocates say that's what they are doing.

To the kids, these methods are simply HOW they want them to do this. It becomes rote but seldom, if ever, connects to the principles. Even then, CC never converts this to something you can do in your head--at least not in the curriculum. So, when you put these young people in retail and they are asked to make change, they have no understanding for how to do that. They've drilled into them that they have to get out a piece of paper and make a grid or something in order to do this. It never occurs to them that they could take those concepts and do it in their head. Nor do they have ANY practice at doing so.

 

[bladehunter]

Having an 11 year old boy who is a whiz at math , I can tell you that CC makes life way more difficult. To this day , everytime I explain something to him the way I was taught he says “ that is just too easy “. And what he means is that it makes logical sense to him vs the many “ rules” that CC comes with in order to work. And this kid is taking The equivalent of algebra 2 in 6th grade. He can do all parts of math in his head . But for school work it slows him down having to do CC and show his work.
This was proven once schools shut down and everything went to online. He is twice as fast at it now since you aren’t showing your work. What will be interesting is when they go back to school and the kids have to get back in line.

 

[leftshot]

Having an 11 year old boy who is a whiz at math , I can tell you that CC makes life way more difficult. To this day , everytime I explain something to him the way I was taught he says “ that is just too easy “. And what he means is that it makes logical sense to him vs the many “ rules” that CC comes with in order to work. And this kid is taking The equivalent of algebra 2 in 6th grade. He can do all parts of math in his head . But for school work it slows him down having to do CC and show his work.
This was proven once schools shut down and everything went to online. He is twice as fast at it now since you aren’t showing your work. What will be interesting is when they go back to school and the kids have to get back in line.

Well said. To put a fine point on it. When your son becomes an adult his employer isn't going to care how he gets the right answer. The employer will care that he gets the right answer and that he does so quickly and without much effort. You son will feel much the same in his private life. When dealing with personal finance, DIY projects, or helping others he's going to care that he gets the right answer with the least amount of time and effort.

 

[fuffle master]

Well said. To put a fine point on it. When your son becomes an adult his employer isn't going to care how he gets the right answer. The employer will care that he gets the right answer and that he does so quickly and without much effort. You son will feel much the same in his private life. When dealing with personal finance, DIY projects, or helping others he's going to care that he gets the right answer with the least amount of time and effort.

Two tidbits with certain very advanced math students. One, they are the exception to CC and yes they may be able to do most advanced math in their head that is not the same for other less advanced students who will need other options of CC to solve and understand how to solved problems. Two, it’s common that very advanced math students need personal finance more than an average math student. While they can do equations in their heads very fast, they see numbers and just know the answers, those very advanced students don’t as easily understand the concepts about money. It doesn’t sound right how could a super advanced gifted student can add or subtract numbers so fast, yet doesn’t understand about how much money is incorporated into our lives.

 

[Jman]

I think you are going to see a resurgence in "personal finance" courses. I introduced this to our curriculum to become a graduation requirement for our incoming freshman class. I agree and many of our teachers are on board that having a personal finance course should be something all students need to complete their education toward graduation.

We are implementing the same thing starting with next years group. They’ll take a semester of personal finance and a semester of government as seniors to graduate.

Way more push back on that than I ever expected.

 

[bladehunter]

I get that some students definitely need a method to go by , but as a former student who struggled with textbook math , I do not see how CC satisfies that . I’ve tried very hard to understand it and cannot . There seems to be an endless number of faith based rules that one must memorize in order to preform the illogical actions that it requires .

That being said. It’s entirely possible that it’s just me . I always struggled with math in a classroom setting , but I build engineering projects with shear points , leverage etc to consider and plenty of math measured to the thousandth of an inch . So in my opinion there is hypothetical classroom math , and then actual problem solving math . For some reason only the real world hands on stuff clicks for me. And CC seems to me , to be the highest level of the “going around the world to cross the street “ math.

and as for the personal finances. im 40 , when I was in middle school we learned about balancing a checkbook, and loan terms and simple interest. Etc. at some point that went away. And I’d be all for it coming back. I’ve had several 20 something employees over the years who thought I was nuts for balancing a business checking account to the penny every day. That’s a symptom of bad things finance wise , overall.

 

[radiman]

I think that common core varies from district to district and teacher to teacher a little bit even. My youngest daughter is going through some of the stuff I remember my oldest doing. But, it's not the exact same curriculum. What I have had to help with in the past isn't as crazy as the hangman division that was posted here earlier.

I was anti common core forever. But, one day I was helping my daughter with some of her work. It wasn't anything too complicated so I was able to do the problem in my head and knew the answer before we were working through the problem. While going through the groupings and such I realized that this method was basically the same way that I was getting the answer in my own head. After a while, I noticed that my daughter knew the answer as well before we started the work. It's almost as if it was broken down in a way that would be easier for your brain to process.

As time went on, her teachers were requiring less and less work be shown. Trusting the kids to do the process in their heads. Heck, they even had sections that were done the traditional way to show the students an alternative method.

It's not evidence that this system is any better than the traditional method. But, my daughter has been excelling at math. She's in 7th grade right now and has been placed in her schools equivalent of advanced algebra now (which doesn't seem to have a common core counterpart). Her math scores have had her invited to partake in some ACT program hosted by Northwestern to prep kids each year and monitor their progress year by year. She's very good at math. But, she still hates it for some reason.

 

[leftshot]

Two tidbits with certain very advanced math students. One, they are the exception to CC and yes they may be able to do most advanced math in their head that is not the same for other less advanced students who will need other options of CC to solve and understand how to solved problems. Two, it’s common that very advanced math students need personal finance more than an average math student. While they can do equations in their heads very fast, they see numbers and just know the answers, those very advanced students don’t as easily understand the concepts about money. It doesn’t sound right how could a super advanced gifted student can add or subtract numbers so fast, yet doesn’t understand about how much money is incorporated into our lives.

I'll go back to a couple of things I said.

At the end of the day learning is about understanding, becoming proficient so you can get things done, then moving on to the next building block and repeating.

I think we agree here. But I don't think Common Core is doing a very good job of teaching this way and achieving those outcomes.

Why can't young people count change? It used to be everyone could do this, both customers and retail employees. Now hardly anyone who recently came through the public school system can. This is just one of many indicators. The national test scores for math are down and we've really lost ground against the rest of the world.

 

[fatboy]

My wife is a teacher. She understands how it can help some kids. But, oldschool is more normal. She hates me..... i do it in my head. For some reason numbers are easy for me. I got all kinds of crap in school for not showing work until a wise ass teacher gave me a problem to do in my head. I had an answer in about 5 seconds and never had to show work again


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