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- #11,851
This was uncalled for. Let's all worked to be nicer to each other, please.
Corona Virus/COVID19: Local Impact
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This was uncalled for. Let's all worked to be nicer to each other, please.
Thanks, I sometimes by necessity have to skip many pages to catch up on these fast moving threads.
Doesn’t help that I have to sound every word out either, lol.
@LICC - I’m truly sorry for your losses. I’ve lost people I know but no one that I’m close to due to it so I know that the threat is real. But if I go back every year of my life I can say that I’ve lost people I know and generally someone I was close to. I’m in no way diminishing your losses, but people die.
I’ve almost bit it twice in my life. I was stung by a swarm of hornet back when I was about 15. I flipped a tire with a nest in it down on the farm. I was over a mile to the farmhouse. I took off and ran 100 yards or so and jumped into the river to get them off of me because I was stung over and over. By the time I swam out of the river, my entire body had the most painful burning itch I’ve ever felt. By the time I got to the farmhouse I had welts over my entire body. Ol’ farmer Stoodts threw me and my bike in the back of his truck and drove me home.
Got home, everyone was eating dinner. Dad took one look at me and we hopped in the car, ran every red light en route to the hospital. By the time I got there my ears were 4” thick and my throat was dang near swollen shut. Anaphylactic Shock is a b.... Doc said I was 5 minutes from likely not making it.
Had I died at 15 my death would have been a tragedy.
I won’t go into too much detail as I’ve spoken many times of it on here, but then I almost died as a 40 year old in a massive (my fault) car wreck. It was grim for a bit.
Had I died as a 40 year old, it would have been easier for my parents (both alive) to take but still hard. It would have been the natural progression for my kids and eventually they’d have got over it.
I’m now fighting a life threatening illness and am heavily medicated. I’m not making excuses, and I am sorry for your losses due to this. The past couple years (outside of a THP event where I absolutely sucked but had the time of my life -thanks again @GolferGal , @JB, and Bridgestone!) have not been kind to me.
So I tend to be blunt. If I have something to say, I say it. I may be wrong 50% of the time, but if I have something to say and I don’t feel it’s disrespectful to someone even if it’s blunt, I say it. I know no other way.
Peace and wellness to you.
Don’t forget his bars opened back up, lol.
I saw a beautiful beer picture he posted.
Sorry if my post to LLIC wasn’t seen as nice. It wasn’t meant to be mean. I’ve just reached an age where I feel it necessary to be blunt at times. Too often I try to make humor that’s misunderstood because no one can see the grin I have when I’m typing. So I’m being more blunt in more posts without being overtly mean. I just want at times for my point to get across.
- Admin
- #11,855
Multiquote is not a virus.
LICC
Well-known member
First, I don't mind at all your respectful disagreement. We are all friends here!You felt I may have been calling you out earlier in this thread. I wasn’t but I could see how you would think that. And again, my apologies for that misunderstanding
I am now. No misunderstanding. I think you are wrong. I’m not afraid to call someone out when they’re wrong-if I am wrong feel free to do so to me. Hell, I’ll still golf with ya so don’t get upset. But where exactly are you finding these gems of info? 20x flu morbidity?
True death rates I’ve seen have been almost zero under 50. Especially 40- with no underlying factors.
Overall .4-.6%. I’ve seen that range of numbers for a week or two now. So roughly 1/200 may perish from it, most of them very elderly.
So why and how are you getting these numbers and why do you place faith in them? I’m genuinely asking.
Did you freak out over SARS and MERS? Ebola (I’ll admit that one scared me until I realized that it was too efficient to be scary, but no one wants to die screaming with blood coming out everywhere)? Influenza A? B? Bubonic plague? Cholera? Dysentery?
Come back off the ledge my friend. You’ll read this one of two ways but it was written in kindness.
Peace and safety to you.
What continues to drive you on this? I’m asking as a no punches pulled friend? The facts just aren’t adding up.
PS-car accidents, no joke. Damn near bit it on 09-17-19 at 3:55pm. Broke nine bones and was gutted like a fish with 27 staples from heart to groin. 14 hours of emergency surgery, life still sucked but I was alive. Damn did life suck. One of 3 that breaks their sternum in a crash lives to talk about it (due to other internal injuries suffered generally). Luckily they got me to a trauma center QUICK and I made it off that table.
There wasn’t time for niceties though. They stuck a mainline into my femoral artery without numbing and actually started gutting me before I was under. Good times. Hey, I’m hard to sedateLuckily they realized quickly and I screamed once and then it was then 14 hours later.
Anyways, take care. The above aren’t meant as harsh words but I’m very blunt. To the point. I don’t know how to do it any other way. I don’t know what you are looking at but I just can’t see it as accurate.
As to your questions, please go look at the various pieces I posted. Goodness, look at Sweden if you want an on-point comparison of the effect of shutdowns. Sweden has had 4500 Covid deaths, with about 12% of them people under age 60. Norway has had 237 deaths and Finland 320. On a per capita basis, Sweden has had 10x the Covid deaths as Norway and Finland. As we all know, Norway and Finland did shutdowns and Sweden did not.
I can see how people who just don't like getting their lives inconvenienced pushing back by being in denial and trying to blame conspiracy theories or bad politics, or misconstruing data and numbers. But when I post stats and reports that show a different reality, I get quite a bit of smug commentary back (not from you), and denialism and cherry picking. If just one person who reads all this was listening to those recklessly saying that Covid is not a heightened risk for people under 60, sees my posts and has second thoughts, then it is worth it.
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LICC
Well-known member
My best wishes for your good health. Bluntness is good as long as it is polite and considerate, which you are.
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- #11,858
I am sorry, but working for a living, supporting families and protecting one's future is hardly having a life inconvenienced.
I have asked you directly at least 5 times for this data you continue to say you are posting about how this impacts those under 50 and it just gets ignored.
So instead of trying to call out others for smug commentary and denialism, let's use the data to help each other and discuss, rather than avoid.
LICC
Well-known member
Have the people on this thread posting denials to my comments lost their jobs? Because those are the ones I was specifically referencing. They seem to be complaining more about inconveniences than financial hardships.
In my post you just partially quoted, I cited that 12% of Sweden's Covid deaths are people under 60. Here are some sites you can use to see the data:
Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center
How does mortality differ across countries? Examining the number of deaths per confirmed case and per 100,000 population. A global comparison.
coronavirus.jhu.edu
Coronavirus Pandemic (COVID-19)
Country-by-country data and research on the pandemic. Updated daily.
ourworldindata.org
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- #11,860
In my post you just partially quoted, I cited that 12% of Sweden's Covid deaths are people under 60. Here are some sites you can use to see the data:
Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center
How does mortality differ across countries? Examining the number of deaths per confirmed case and per 100,000 population. A global comparison.
Coronavirus Pandemic (COVID-19)
Country-by-country data and research on the pandemic. Updated daily.
My post asked about the US. Neither of those links or any links you post have much to do with Americans under the age of 50.
I have said all along that I do not believe comparisons to other countries holds much water, no more than a comparison from NYC to North Dakota. I see data posted in this thread that contradicts what you are saying in regards to this, and you continue to say that it is 20x worse. Which goes against that data and as more testing is done, will continue to go further against it.
LICC
Well-known member
- Admin
- #11,863
My question has not changed however. I have asked from the beginning of your journey in this thread about Americans under the age of 50 and you keep saying it is 20x worse than the flu. I continue to ask for the data that backs it up and with each link you post it either doesn't contain any of that information or is incredibly dated and is based on prediction rather than actual data.
Yet others come into this thread and post data that says 20x for those under 50 in this country is not even remotely accurate. I am trying to learn and understand like everybody else, but when the question just goes unanswered over and over it becomes a bit tiring to hear crazy numbers thrown out and condescending remarks (from all parties).
Ok, last one then I’ll take a scheduled break @JB lol!
Sweden has a population of over 10 million. 4500 COVID deaths (and I will admit I don’t know how they classify them-we’ve seen some pretty calculated classifications even here in the US) isn’t anything to sneeze at if their numbers are true and honest. NYC has a similar population and during the drug wars in the 80’s that was about 2 years worth of murdered to put it in perspective. The vast majority of those deaths were young. I’m not saying older folks aren’t as valued. It’s just a different deal when they’ve led a full life. I referenced that when I spoke of the difference in me dying at 15 and at 40 (or 41-42).
How many are under 40? Under 50? I know you’ve stated 12% under 60 but how many of that percentage had co-morditiy factoring in? 90%? 98%? I don’t know but everyone I’ve know that’s under 75 that’s passed has had some other major issue.
Heck I’m at risk if I get it. I work in plague central where everyone sick visits. Has it worried me? Yes. More so at the start then now. Have I been scared? No. Not for me. I don’t want my oldest to get it because he has bad asthma and scarred lung tissue. I initially self quarantined from them to protect them. When I saw the details more clearly I started to see my kids again. Still taking precautions but I’ve chosen to live my life outside of fear, while taking precautions based on the latest we know of this.
I don’t wear a mask anymore, I wear a face shield. So much better. I do wear a mask if my kids are in the car. Latest I’ve known is that it won’t protect me (don’t really care) but it could prevent me from giving it to my kids, particularly my oldest if I were to have it.
Anyways, take care.
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- #11,867
News!
Unemployment just went up another 2 million it looks like.
Unemployment just went up another 2 million it looks like.
- Staff
- #11,869
Have the people on this thread posting denials to my comments lost their jobs? Because those are the ones I was specifically referencing. They seem to be complaining more about inconveniences than financial hardships.
In my post you just partially quoted, I cited that 12% of Sweden's Covid deaths are people under 60. Here are some sites you can use to see the data:
Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center
How does mortality differ across countries? Examining the number of deaths per confirmed case and per 100,000 population. A global comparison.
Coronavirus Pandemic (COVID-19)
Country-by-country data and research on the pandemic. Updated daily.
You don’t have to lose your job to worry about the jobs of the people that you have fired or furloughed, if you are in management....
That's because the horse had to race with a mask on and had to run no closer than 6 feet to any of the other horses.
Talked to one of the player service guys at the course yesterday. He's in his late 60s and works a couple of part-time jobs. One job is at the basketball stadium as an usher and the other is at the course. Yesterday was the first time I've seen him since last fall. The stadium furloughed him and he's collecting unemployment. He specifically mentioned the $600 Fed bump but has to limit hours to 10 per week or he loses it. The course would gladly give him more hours. Similar situation for another guy in the pro shop who lost his job at Top Golf. Assume both are classified as unemployed.
LICC
Well-known member
Correct, there is no perfect outcome here. Risk large numbers of deaths and serious illnesses or risk unemployment hardship. Denying the health and death risks is not an answer.
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- Staff
- #11,873
So lockdown until a vaccine is the answer?
But many are ignoring the fact that a shutdown also causes deaths not directly from the Covid 19 virus. Each week we extend the lockdown causes thousands of deaths so it's not as simple as SIP to save lives as SIP orders may cost more life-years than they save.
My wife works for the largest Healthcare Insurance company in the U.S. and they are seeing record profits because elective surgeries are down as well as chemo treatments, etc. People are afraid to go to the doctor or hospital and many early cancer screenings will not happen because of it. Their outcomes will be much worse without early detection.
An article that lays out the indirect human lives lost because of the shutdown.
The COVID-19 shutdown will cost Americans millions of years of life
The national lockdown is responsible for at least 700,000 lost years of life every month, or about 1.5 million so far — already far surpassing the COVID-19 total
thehill.com
Two quotes from the article published on 5/25/20.
"Here are the examples of missed health care on which we base our calculations: Emergency stroke evaluations are down 40 percent. Of the 650,000 cancer patients receiving chemotherapy in the United States, an estimated half are missing their treatments. Of the 150,000 new cancer cases typically discovered each month in the U.S., most – as elsewhere in the world – are not being diagnosed, and two-thirds to three-fourths of routine cancer screenings are not happening because of shutdown policies and fear among the population. Nearly 85 percent fewer living-donor transplants are occurring now, compared to the same period last year. In addition, more than half of childhood vaccinations are not being performed, setting up the potential of a massive future health disaster."
"In comparison, COVID-19 fatalities have fallen disproportionately on the elderly, particularly in nursing homes, and those with co-morbidities. Based on the expected remaining lifetimes of these COVID-19 patients, and given that 40 percent of deaths are in nursing homes, the disease has been responsible for 800,000 lost years of life so far. Considering only the losses of life from missed health care and unemployment due solely to the lockdown policy, we conservatively estimate that the national lockdown is responsible for at least 700,000 lost years of life every month, or about 1.5 million so far — already far surpassing the COVID-19 total."
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Learned at the course this morning that they are close to removing all cart restrictions. That means back to two, unrelated golfers can ride together. I don't know if you can opt out of that and not have a stranger ride with you.
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