DECADE Golf - What do you know or think about it? And do you use it?

[jmix18]

Was listening to a podcast the other day that had Scott Fawcett talking about his course management system called DECADE. Maybe I'm slow to the party here but it's a pretty straightforward idea - and the fact that he works with Zalatoris and Bryson made it even more interesting.

Who here knows about it, has thoughts about it (I know you do, don't hold back), and/or even uses it?

 

[Daluteh]

Never heard of it so no thoughts, what podcast was it?

 

[Muchmore]

That’s a mystery to me since I’ve never heard of it either but I will look it up and see what it’s all about

 

[Ludin]

Never heard of it so no thoughts, what podcast was it?

Hack it out golf. Mark Crossfield is the host.

 

[Templet0n]

Decade basically says hit driver. Lol

There is more to it then that. I would love to try it and map out tendencies etc.. but it’s expensive.

 

[jmix18]

Never heard of it so no thoughts, what podcast was it?

It was No Putts Given. Had a long drive so after I finished listening to THP Radio on Thursday I followed it up with that. Interesting concept and great strategy thoughts.

 

[jmix18]

Decade basically says hit driver. Lol

There is more to it then that. I would love to try it and map out tendencies etc.. but it’s expensive.

They way I understand it is it’s more about percentages. He states that on most holes there is always a 65-70 yard landing spot to first look at, then calculate percentages from there based on what you can do.

 

[ottosmagic13]

I didn't hear the same podcast as the OP but remember Mark Crossfield talking about it.

From what I remember it was knowing the percentages and margins of error that different handicap golfers shoot and setting expectations accordingly. Shotscope data basically.

A -XX- handicap golfer should put this XXyrd inside -XX- feet.

"Decade" being the milestones 100, 90, 80 etc. and the averages of golfers that score those regularly.


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[Templet0n]

They way I understand it is it’s more about percentages. He states that on most holes there is always a 65-70 yard landing spot to first look at, then calculate percentages from there based on what you can do.

Yeah. I was being a bit sarcastic there is way more to it. It does promote a much more aggressive play off the tee. Basically most people miss the same percentage of fairways regardless of what they hit off the tee so may as well be as far down the fairway as possible. Assuming there is not penalty hazards in play.

 

[DNice26]

Never heard of it. Will check it out.

 

[BigMac]

I've heard of it, but know very little about it. Basically all I know is what people have covered so far in this thread - he's big on being aggressive off the tee in most cases and playing the percentages. So basically, I know a tiny bit more about Decade Golf than I do about Aimpoint.

 

[TRA024]

Yes, have the foundations version of DECADE. Basically Scott has built on strokes gained data (he already did it before but sample size obviously a lot smaller and SG confirmed his data) and done a math based model to what the optimal strategy is. One key element is understanding your shot dispersion for all clubs and based on that you can select the optimal target for each situation. It also stresses that the key to lower scoring is to eliminate your mistakes and that you can't force birdies, your shot dispersion (assuming you chose the correct target) will put enough balls close to the pin to give you looks.

DECADE principles are used by the majority of all pro's and top amateurs today. For me the biggest benefit is that it teaches you to just think about the next shot and a very clear strategy on how to play. As it uses SG data it's also good for understanding the probabilities for different shots / situations and that being conservative in almost all other areas than your tee strategy is the best way to play mathematically.

I highly recommend it, I think the 6m program is 99usd. At least for me it was worth that many times over.

 

[greenOak]

I am quite familiar with DECADE and basically use a modified version of it to guide my on course decision making. It’s important to realize the exact strategies in DECADE are aimed at tour pros and elite amateurs as opposed to most of us.

IMO if you’re not using DECADE principles (basically personal shot patterns combined with strokes gained data) to guide your decision making, you’re doing it wrong.

 

[Et Tu Brute?]

IMO if you’re not using DECADE principles (basically personal shot patterns combined with strokes gained data) to guide your decision making, you’re doing it wrong.

To the extent that sort of decision making is possible for a high-double-digit handicapper with a two-way miss (or all-way miss if you included duffed shots and bladed wedges) surely it comes down to common sense. Try to put as much as possible of your likely shot dispersion into areas where you can still play the next shot without a penalty or recovery shot. Not that every 20hcp golfer has "common sense" when it comes to his game!

But my point is you can't really science the heck out of this stuff when your 95% dispersion pattern covers everywhere from leaving the ball sitting at your feet to missing left or right by 50 yards to possibly blading a wedge or short iron 40 yards over the green. Strokes gained in particular can't distinguish one strategy from another for that sort of high handicap hacker. Whatever strokes gained scenarios you try to consider come down to assigning guesswork probabilities to the various outcomes.

The open question for me, looking on DECADE as an outsider (with a 15hcp and no idea where any particular shot is going I am well outside DECADE's range of applicability) what's not clear is just where that breakpoint is. I think Scott Fawcett would say it's probably somewhere around an 8hcp or so who is making progress toward improving his golf swing. I think that's a very inclusive view of and to my mind I think we're talking somewhere around a very good high school player (typically a low single digit handicap) or maybe someone good enough to consider spending a few entry fees on a mini-Tour somewhere. I think that's a level where the deep immersion in the DECADE process can really pay dividends.

The guys I know with 6-8 handicaps probably would take a lot of work to get the level of self-knowledge of their game that would let DECADE help them formulate highly detailed round preparations.

 

[jvbart]

I follow Scott on Twitter and have read quite a bit about decade. Seems like he’s used data to systemize the approach great players like Tiger and Jack taught themselves. It’s hard to argue that it’s the right way to score. It sounds great for high level players but as a weekend player with a 19 hc it probably doesn’t make sense for me.

As much as I love the decade concept Scott is pretty hard to follow on Twitter sometimes. He would do well to hand it over to a professional.

 

[greenOak]

I think you can apply this kind of decision making regardless of your skill level.

I agree that if you’re an erratic 15 HDCP you should largely be choosing targets that give you the best chance of finding your ball on your next shot but in my experience a lot of golfers in this category don’t do this. For example there’s a hole I play with OB all up the left and another fairway separated by a thin tree line to the right. The center of the fairway is about 30 yards right of the OB fence. If your dispersion is +/- 50 yards right/left (which believe it or not is actually similar to my dispersion with driver), you should aim 20 yards right of the center of the fairway on this hole. Nevertheless I always see players just aim in the center of the fairway because that’s where you’re supposed to hit it.

Also see major mistakes being made on the greens like making sure not to leave birdie putts short even if they’re from 30 feet. It leads to frequently blasting the ball 4+ feet past the hole, and you don’t even hole more putts because you shrink the capture size of the hole when hitting it so hard.

 

[TRA024]

I follow Scott on Twitter and have read quite a bit about decade. Seems like he’s used data to systemize the approach great players like Tiger and Jack taught themselves. It’s hard to argue that it’s the right way to score. It sounds great for high level players but as a weekend player with a 19 hc it probably doesn’t make sense for me.

As much as I love the decade concept Scott is pretty hard to follow on Twitter sometimes. He would do well to hand it over to a professional.

I would not agree that a higher hcp player can't benefit from DECADE. Of course you can get more precise the better you are at executing shots but there are a lot of strategic and target selection strategies that can be applied to any hcp level. I see so many player's in our weekend group that are in the 10-15 range that could without any swing changes easily pick-up 3-5 shots / round by just being smarter. Too much of trying to press when out of position trying to "make-up" for a bad shot, laying up to 100 yards, going for pins, get mad when they miss a 10 ft putt (correct data based expectations is a big part of DECADE / SG), etc.

For me one other fun bonus from understanding DECADE / SG fairly good now makes watching the pro's and the caddie discussions a lot more fun as you can understand how they are thinking when executing the shot.

 

[jvbart]

I would not agree that a higher hcp player can't benefit from DECADE. Of course you can get more precise the better you are at executing shots but there are a lot of strategic and target selection strategies that can be applied to any hcp level. I see so many player's in our weekend group that are in the 10-15 range that could without any swing changes easily pick-up 3-5 shots / round by just being smarter. Too much of trying to press when out of position trying to "make-up" for a bad shot, laying up to 100 yards, going for pins, get mad when they miss a 10 ft putt (correct data based expectations is a big part of DECADE / SG), etc.

For me one other fun bonus from understanding DECADE / SG fairly good now makes watching the pro's and the caddie discussions a lot more fun as you can understand how they are thinking when executing the shot.

My point was more that It’s not worth the time and investment for me. I have no doubt it would help my game a ton if I could commit to it but I don’t have much time outside my weekend round and practice once a week.

Agree on the caddy discussions it has really helped me understand them a little bit better and made it a lot of fun to listen how they think through it.

 

[TRA024]

My point was more that It’s not worth the time and investment for me. I have no doubt it would help my game a ton if I could commit to it but I don’t have much time outside my weekend round and practice once a week.

Agree on the caddy discussions it has really helped me understand them a little bit better and made it a lot of fun to listen how they think through it.

A good way to see if this might interest you for free is to follow Lou Stagner and Scott Fawcett on Twitter. You get a lot of good (free) information, maybe listen to a few pods Scott's been on and I think you can get a general idea and also a lot of the benefits. If that gets you (or anyone else for that matter) curious the DECADE Foundations (there's an advanced version as well) is basically a 6 month program with a new series of videos for each month and is not time consuming at all. If anything I would say this is a great way for someone who doesn't have that much time to spend on the range & course to still pick-up shots.

I totally get that this is not for everyone and enjoying the game and getting out there is by far the most important thing. I just think that there's a slight misconception that this is a) only for elite players and b) it's time consuming. It can be both a & b but doesn't have to.

 

[Et Tu Brute?]

A good way to see if this might interest you for free is to follow Lou Stagner and Scott Fawcett on Twitter. You get a lot of good (free) information, maybe listen to a few pods Scott's been on and I think you can get a general idea and also a lot of the benefits. If that gets you (or anyone else for that matter) curious the DECADE Foundations (there's an advanced version as well) is basically a 6 month program with a new series of videos for each month and is not time consuming at all. If anything I would say this is a great way for someone who doesn't have that much time to spend on the range & course to still pick-up shots.

I totally get that this is not for everyone and enjoying the game and getting out there is by far the most important thing. I just think that there's a slight misconception that this is a) only for elite players and b) it's time consuming. It can be both a & b but doesn't have to.

Just making a pass through the information and trying to understand the basic tenets doesn't have to be time consuming. From what (little) I know of the program, the big decision is whether or not you want to track and document your shot patterns with the methods DECADE is based on. There's no way around it, whether you're an elite player or not that is a huge commitment of time and effort. Just trying to apply the ideas Scott Fawcett has come up with in a general way rather than actually mapping them into your own game wouldn't require that commitment but it also isn't really doing DECADE, it's just appropriating elements of a philosophy.

 

[greenOak]

Just making a pass through the information and trying to understand the basic tenets doesn't have to be time consuming. From what (little) I know of the program, the big decision is whether or not you want to track and document your shot patterns with the methods DECADE is based on. There's no way around it, whether you're an elite player or not that is a huge commitment of time and effort. Just trying to apply the ideas Scott Fawcett has come up with in a general way rather than actually mapping them into your own game wouldn't require that commitment but it also isn't really doing DECADE, it's just appropriating elements of a philosophy.

It is a big commitment to track your shots, but you don't need DECADE or even knowledge of DECADE to do it. Any shot tracking app would work (Arccos, shotscope, etc)

 

[TRA024]

Just making a pass through the information and trying to understand the basic tenets doesn't have to be time consuming. From what (little) I know of the program, the big decision is whether or not you want to track and document your shot patterns with the methods DECADE is based on. There's no way around it, whether you're an elite player or not that is a huge commitment of time and effort. Just trying to apply the ideas Scott Fawcett has come up with in a general way rather than actually mapping them into your own game wouldn't require that commitment but it also isn't really doing DECADE, it's just appropriating elements of a philosophy.

I don't have access to a Trackman / GC unit so I've basically just done this on the range + see what my tendencies and patters are on the course. Sure having access to a good launch monitor will be beneficial but when you have the conceptual reference it also makes you pay more attention to it on the course and you will iterate to having a fairly good understanding.

Stat tracking in foundations is not a SG approach, it is basically the "Tiger 5" (Par 5 bogey%, double bogey %, 3-putts, bogey from 150-in, 2-chips). In Foundations it later in the program adds a few elements but only in the "Pro" version do you do actual SG tracking. To me understanding the concepts and the basis for decision making has been the greatest help even w/o knowing my exact dispersion patterns or stats.

Yes, agree that to apply the full DECADE approach you need to allocate a bit more time to it but it's not a binary you do it or you don't having used the app / product. Even understanding the basic concepts (which includes a lot of SG and expectation value for different shots, which per se isn't even DECADE) will help a lot of people to play smarter and shoot lower scores. Just like us weekend hacks can't put in as much time practicing as the top players doesn't mean we shouldn't practice at all, we can do less but still get benefits out of it.

 

[captaincaution]

I purchased the Foundations version of DECADE and I am really enjoying it. The biggest thing for me has been deciding on the ideal target on approach shots, and commitment and mental focus to all my shots. Scott also preaches playing one shot shape pretty much all the time unless you have to get out from behind a tree, which helps keep your shot pattern tighter. Trying to work the ball both ways leads to a double cross, which can blow your shot pattern up.

As to whether it would benefit higher handicap golfers, I really think it would. In a lot of his videos he goes over how even with a larger shot dispersion, your ideal targets are practically the same.

It seems like it is a lot of analysis, but for me, even without keeping track of shot level data, it has been mentally freeing. Apply the method to pick your target, commit to the shot, and just accept the results of the shot, even if it was a "bad" shot.