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OneFootShort

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Anybody tried the Decade Golf program for course management? I used to think I was a very good course manager, however, after playing with a good buddy (scratch to +) I realized I'm not good at all. I've heard Scott talk on some podcasts and I like his thought processes on much of this stuff.

Getting from my current 5 hcp to a 2-3 isn't going to be easy. I feel like I need to get that extra help with course management.

Curious to hear your opinions, thanks!
 
I started on a free trial of the foundations portion of the app, and I am liking it so far. The content that they have there is very valuable. I will probably upgrade to the paid version, and maybe go to the elite app to get more of the information faster.

Just going back through my round last weekend, there are a number of spots where I didn't make good decisions, partly because the format we were playing rewarded low scoring, but I also made a lot of good swings to good targets and was rewarded for staying true to the system.
 
captaincaution said:
I started on a free trial of the foundations portion of the app, and I am liking it so far. The content that they have there is very valuable. I will probably upgrade to the paid version, and maybe go to the elite app to get more of the information faster.

Just going back through my round last weekend, there are a number of spots where I didn't make good decisions, partly because the format we were playing rewarded low scoring, but I also made a lot of good swings to good targets and was rewarded for staying true to the system.
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I just downloaded the app and started the free trial. Were you able to get the greens book?
 
OneFootShort said:
I just downloaded the app and started the free trial. Were you able to get the greens book?
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I got the yardage book for one of my club's courses with the free trial.
 
OneFootShort said:
Curious to hear your opinions, thanks!
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Completely different level of golf than you - probably different enough that my opinion isn't relevant.

While I believe and often state that my course management is good, there are certainly a couple strokes to be saved. I try hard to keep an open mind and will throughout a season try a different strategy for several rounds such as pulling one more club than I think, playing more conservative, or taking a little more risk. I've yet to experience anything of substance.

I would love to be wrong about what I think I know and would consider paying for course management advice that would save strokes.
 
JonMA1 said:
Completely different level of golf than you - probably different enough that my opinion isn't relevant.

While I believe and often state that my course management is good, there are certainly a couple strokes to be saved. I try hard to keep an open mind and will throughout a season try a different strategy for several rounds such as pulling one more club than I think, playing more conservative, or taking a little more risk. I've yet to experience anything of substance.

I would love to be wrong about what I think I know and would consider paying for course management advice that would save strokes.
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I think my fascination with it is learning to "play the odds" better to eliminate a stupid mistake costing me 2+ strokes. Say it's aiming at that back left pin and pulling it a touch and going long and left of the green, possibly in a terrible area. So, let's say that tends to happen twice around, it could save me a potential 4 strokes over the course of it, I would be interested in finding that out. However, it could also be as simple as "hey, take your medicine here and make bogey."

I guess that's why this game great!
 
I'm speaking out of ignorance because I haven't tried it, but what has struck me is that it seems very time consuming and costly. Moreover, I think it's made for and targeted at a certain level of skill. That said, if you have the skill and the time, I definitely think there's a lot of good stuff in there.

I'm not sure spending the time keeping all the stats would be that useful for an average golfer. Sure, it may tell him where he should aim, but if he's going to pull or push it 40 yards left or right of that supposed scatter pattern, or chunk it or thin it over the green a significant portion of the time, were the cost and effort really worth it? In my mind it's targeted more towards the really good player who realizes he can get an advantage by taking the 60% chance of hitting it past the bunkers to the wider spot rather than hitting the 100% chance of hitting 4-iron to lay short of the bunker. An average player can't be sure he'll get past the bunkers at all, not be in the bunkers, or not be in the wrong fairway completely. It sure would be interesting to hear from like a 16-handicap that's done it.
 
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Can't remember the name of the book, but I learned course management in part by using the following method. I suspect most of us do this intuitively and in our head, but the simple graphics in the book were a great help. One can actually record their shot zones as well as map a course using this method.

My poor attempt to paraphrase...

1. The first step was learning the shot zones for each club. Whether you actually measure them or just get to the point where you know, getting a feel for how long, how short and how wide you typically hit each club is essential. But it's only part of the method.

2. Once the zones have been defined, the next step would be to map a course using levels or shades of gray. Again, this could be done mentally while playing, but the idea was that something like short rough or a FW bunker would have a light shade of gray. Thicker rough or a fairway bunker might have a medium gray, and water, knee-high fescue, or thick woods would be a dark gray or even black. The darker the area, the more it is to be avoided.

If you believe the best strategy is to safely advance the ball as much as possible with each shot, identifying the levels of gray on a hole and knowing if or how much of your shot zones will intersect them is key.

For example, if one's driver shot zone is an oval 25 yards deep and 50 yards wide, and that zone intersects a light gray area of short rough, it's the driver all day long. But if instead of a light gray area, there was a pond or some brush - a black area - too much inside the shot zone, pulling less club would be wiser.

Approaches to the green would be mapped the same way... bunkers, hazards, safe misses just off the green - all mapped in grays. When combined with the shot zone of the club needed to get to the green, a target can be determined. There's a hole at my home course that I won't even try to approach beyond 150 yards because of how small the green and lighter grays are, and how black the surrounding areas are. But with my game, laying up from that distance and beyond is the smart move.

In my world, missing slightly on the correct side of the green is often an acceptable result... sometimes even a success. If I were a better player, my shot zones would be tighter and a miss might not be so palatable.

In all honesty, I've never been consistent enough to actually define shot zones with longer clubs. But it's easy to recognize a target that looks too tight.
 
JonMA1 said:
Can't remember the name of the book, but I learned course management in part by using the following method. I suspect most of us do this intuitively and in our head, but the simple graphics in the book were a great help. One can actually record their shot zones as well as map a course using this method.

My poor attempt to paraphrase...

1. The first step was learning the shot zones for each club. Whether you actually measure them or just get to the point where you know, getting a feel for how long, how short and how wide you typically hit each club is essential. But it's only part of the method.

2. Once the zones have been defined, the next step would be to map a course using levels or shades of gray. Again, this could be done mentally while playing, but the idea was that something like short rough or a FW bunker would have a light shade of gray. Thicker rough or a fairway bunker might have a medium gray, and water, knee-high fescue, or thick woods would be a dark gray or even black. The darker the area, the more it is to be avoided.

If you believe the best strategy is to safely advance the ball as much as possible with each shot, identifying the levels of gray on a hole and knowing if or how much of your shot zones will intersect them is key.

For example, if one's driver shot zone is an oval 25 yards deep and 50 yards wide, and that zone intersects a light gray area of short rough, it's the driver all day long. But if instead of a light gray area, there was a pond or some brush - a black area - too much inside the shot zone, pulling less club would be wiser.

Approaches to the green would be mapped the same way... bunkers, hazards, safe misses just off the green - all mapped in grays. When combined with the shot zone of the club needed to get to the green, a target can be determined. There's a hole at my home course that I won't even try to approach beyond 150 yards because of how small the green and lighter grays are, and how black the surrounding areas are. But with my game, laying up from that distance and beyond is the smart move.

In my world, missing slightly on the correct side of the green is often an acceptable result... sometimes even a success. If I were a better player, my shot zones would be tighter and a miss might not be so palatable.

In all honesty, I've never been consistent enough to actually define shot zones with longer clubs. But it's easy to recognize a target that looks too tight.
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This sounds like "Lowest Score Wins" (Barzeski & Wedzik). A lot of similar concepts to DECADE and Fawcett / Stagner.
 
TRA024 said:
This sounds like "Lowest Score Wins" (Barzeski & Wedzik). A lot of similar concepts to DECADE and Fawcett / Stagner.
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Yep. I haven't looked into DECADE, but LSW is a well-written book with a lot of good stuff beyond the course management section. Of course, my endorsement of any book or way of thinking should be the kiss of death. Hahaha.
 
I think you have to look at DECADE as more than just course management. It is a decision making system, trying to teach you to make the optimal decision in all situations. And then if/when your shot doesn't work out (because it doesn't always work out) moving on and making the best decision for your next shot from there.
 
Just sat through a coaches clinic and Decade was discussed at length by the head of instruction at Southern Hills. I’m convinced. I believe it can help me, and my HS kids.
 
Jman said:
Just sat through a coaches clinic and Decade was discussed at length by the head of instruction at Southern Hills. I’m convinced. I believe it can help me, and my HS kids.
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Yes!

YES!!!!

YES!!!!!

 
Jman said:
I’m eager to get started. Think I’ll do a thread documenting the journey.
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Excellent. I really think that you are going to love this. It is really going to help you as a coach, and your golfers are going to learn so much from it.
 
Jman said:
Just sat through a coaches clinic and Decade was discussed at length by the head of instruction at Southern Hills. I’m convinced. I believe it can help me, and my HS kids.
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I know the generally outline of the system and believe it can help most golfers. Excited to see how it works out for your players.
 
Jman said:
I’m eager to get started. Think I’ll do a thread documenting the journey.
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given your skill and commitment, it’s definitely going to be interesting follow to see if what DECADE promotes helps what you’ve already done a pretty damn good job yourself without it.
 
I have only looked quickly at the website and based on that I am not certain what the system does. I have been on calls and haven't watched any videos. It looks like stats tracking but there has to be more to it.
 
Chef23 said:
I have only looked quickly at the website and based on that I am not certain what the system does. I have been on calls and haven't watched any videos. It looks like stats tracking but there has to be more to it.
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It helps you strategize so that you can reach and commit to the correct target without letting emotion come into play. It helps you understand and accept that perfect rarely happens, and how to us that knowledge to give you the best chance of shooting the lowest score that you can.

There is some stats tracking, but you don't need to get super heavy into the stats to benefit from the system. I only collect a few stats, and they are definitely not the stats that you think I collect.
 
Chef23 said:
I have only looked quickly at the website and based on that I am not certain what the system does. I have been on calls and haven't watched any videos. It looks like stats tracking but there has to be more to it.
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It basically gives you a decision tree for each shot.
 
Alright I am convinced to give the free month a try.
 
Jman said:
I’m eager to get started. Think I’ll do a thread documenting the journey.
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That would be a great thread to follow along
 
I'm a firm believer. I did the trial, ended up joining, won a full elite membership from Scott on Twitter. A lot of info to absorb. Actually going back over the videos starting over just to help ingrain the thought processes.
 
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