do you expect to mishit the ball ?

[JonMA1]

By the way, there is a name for the foible you described. It's called "Everyman's Syndrome".

And it seems as though golf not only brings a lot of that about, but it's brought on so often based on factoids (assumption or speculation that is reported so often that it becomes accepted as fact).

For years it was the adage "drive for show, putt for dough" that was given to everyone as though that was the biggest reason we don't score low. Then, someone collects a bunch of data refuting that belief and the next thing you know advice is being given to practice the full swing more than the short game - as though everyone has that exact same issue to fix. In my little world and with my game, both are equally poor.

This particular thread comes from a larger misbelief that every high or mid capper needs only to develop better strategy to experience better golf. I would gladly pay someone money and admit I was wrong if a different strategy or mental frame of mind would save me any more than a couple of strokes per round.

I think most agree that pulling a club based on the longest distance ever achieved with that club is not wise. Most of the responses indicate that is not what's happening. Yet, the message remains "pull more club".

 

[DG_1234]

I think most agree that pulling a club based on the longest distance ever achieved with that club is not wise. Most of the responses indicate that is not what's happening. Yet, the message remains "pull more club".

That's golf. It's like the "slow play" topic. Ask a dozen players if they are slow on the course and all 12 of them will reply "not me".
Ask a dozen players if they know their carry yardages and all 12 will reply yes (yet all day long courses are filled with players balls coming up 10 to 20 yards short of the greens).

 

[Stryker]

You've used the words "asinine" and "ridiculous" a couple of times now. Have you considered that is is well known (apparent at any regulation length golf course) that most amateur players leave their golf balls well short of the green. And that when asked the number one fault they see during Pro Am play Tour players reply "amateurs don't take enough club for the shot at hand".
The OP is about club selection, and if it's common for players to come up short with approach shots to the green , suggestions for a way to improve that situation is not "asinine" or "ridiculous".

I am well aware and that is not at all what you are discussing. As usual, another post by you that is “asinine” or “ridiculous”.

 

[dAS0]

Given those variables, I'd club up. If mishits are common and I have no information on trouble around the green, then being behind the green is just as good as being short, but hitting a 6i will increase my chances of hitting the green if I slightly mishit it.

I know there are more variables such as a 6i may go more of course than a 7i if mishit, but I'd hit what would give me the better chance of getting a GIR.

 

[JonMA1]

That's golf. It's like the "slow play" topic. Ask a dozen players if they are slow on the course and all 12 of them will reply "not me".
Ask a dozen players if they know their carry yardages and all 12 will reply yes (yet all day long courses are filled with players balls coming up 10 to 20 yards short of the greens).

Edit: Maybe we can just agree to disagree.

 

[V14_Heels]

I think the term mishit is what's holding up a lot of agreement. Exchange it for 'less than perfectly flush' and it might be easier. Either way, in this scenario, it just seems to be a roundabout way of asking if you play to the most likely outcome or the most hopeful one.

I mean that's fair, but that's not how DG has framed this post. I gotta be honest, I'm a rather new member and the way in which DG frames his post it's almost like he does it intentionally to stir up drama. If DG is truly a 2 handicap, well then he is WELL AWARE of how many different types of mishits there are...he's calling a SERIOUS mishit in his OP 15 yards shorter but basically assuming it's still straight. I just don't see how that can be categorized as a SERIOUS mishit by really any stretch. I can send you guys some videos of some serious mishits...I have dozens to choose from in any given round.

A good shot that is less than perfect is NOT a serious mishit in my opinion. It's just a good shot...that's not GREAT. These pro shots you all are talking about that are 5 yards shorter then they had drawn up or maybe don't quite fade perfectly aren't mishits in my mind. They're good shots...and heck at +/- 5 yards I'd still call that a GREAT shot.

Mishits are badly thinned balls, fat balls, topped balls, slices, hard pushes, and to say that people that often mishit...hit greens...that's just NOT a true statement. I feel like we've really tried to reframe a MIShit into something it just isn't. Those players are still making relatively good contact in the center of the iron face. Is that really a "mishit"?

A pure 7i for me is 155. I see it one out of every 30 shots. A well struck 7i for me is 140. A good 7 iron for me is 130. A fatter 7i but still decent contact is 120. A mishit...who the heck knows. I play my 7i in about that 130-140 yard range.

 

[rumstove]

Your ball lay in the fairway, 150 yards from a center of the green hole location. Good lie, level terrain, no wind. Front edge of the green is 140 yards, back edge of the green is 165 yards.

A seriously mishit 7-iron carries 120 to 130 yards.
A slightly mishit 7-iron for you carries 130 to 140 yards.
A well struck 7-iron carries 145 yards.
A very well struck-pure 7-iron carries 155 yards.

Your game is at a level where seven swings out of ten you either slightly mishit or seriously mishit the ball. Do you club yourself hoping/expecting for one of the three out of ten swings that will carry 145 to 155 yards? Or do you club yourself expecting a mishit and carry the ball 130 yards ?

I've read the OP a few times now and I've read all of the responses. In the OP scenario, and assuming I hit my 6-iron the same as my 7-iron, there's a 7 out of 10 chance a 6-iron will go the distance I'm looking for with a 3 out of 10 chance of me hitting a 6-iron and saying "whoa I really got a hold of that one and crushed it over the green."

Unless there's a bunch of trees or other hazard behind the green I'll play a 6-iron rather than the 7-iron. If there's no room at all behind the green then I'll hit a 7-iron and hope for one of my 3-outta-10 well struck shots, but if I come up short 7-outta-10 times then at least I avoided the hazard behind the green.

 

[DG_1234]

I've read the OP a few times now and I've read all of the responses. In the OP scenario, and assuming I hit my 6-iron the same as my 7-iron, there's a 7 out of 10 chance a 6-iron will go the distance I'm looking for with a 3 out of 10 chance of me hitting a 6-iron and saying "whoa I really got a hold of that one and crushed it over the green."

Unless there's a bunch of trees or other hazard behind the green I'll play a 6-iron rather than the 7-iron. If there's no room at all behind the green then I'll hit a 7-iron and hope for one of my 3-outta-10 well struck shots, but if I come up short 7-outta-10 times then at least I avoided the hazard behind the green.

Remember, the OP reads pure-perfect strike with a 7-iron carries the ball 155. The back edge of the green is 165 so it is unlikely a pure-perfect strike 6-iron would carry past the back edge of the green and, or, that the player "crush it over the green".
On a related subject, in this thread there seems to be lots of concern about "trouble long" (as a justification for under clubbing ). I've played hundreds of golf courses and can't remember more than a few holes where the back of the green butted up against OB stakes or some sort of hazard. I guess 99.999% of all golf holes offer some sort of playable lie within 10 yards of the back edge of the green.

 

[greenOak]

If I flush an iron shot, it will finish at the back of just off the back of the green. If it finishes in the middle of the green or shorter, I didn't take enough club. If it finishes 15+ yards over the back, I took too much club.

Missing short is an epidemic among amateurs.

 

[JonMA1]

My stats...

GW: Left 10%, Short 12%, Long 4%, Right 12%
9i: Left14%, Short 13%, Long 5%, Right 13%
8i: Left 13%, Short 18%, Long 8%, Right 11%
7i: Left 13%, Short 13%, Long 0%, Right 0%

Other than with the 8i, other misses can occur at the same rate.

With the longer clubs it gets ugly. Why? Is it because I abruptly stop taking enough club? No. It's because as the clubs get longer, the ball striking gets worse. So when I pull a 6i for a 7i distance, there's a greater chance that it's going offline. If I flush it it'll go even further off line or, if I'm "lucky", straight over the green and into the creek or woods behind.

Maybe I'm outside the skill level this thread was intended for??? But the difference between my mishit, slight mishit (typical), well-struck and flushed shots is greater than 10 or 15 yards.

In my world, leaving an approach short isn't a problem while hitting one out of bounds is. The root cause has little to do club selection and everything to do about inconsistent ball striking.

 

[greenOak]

My stats...

GW: Left 10%, Short 12%, Long 4%, Right 12%
9i: Left14%, Short 13%, Long 5%, Right 13%
8i: Left 13%, Short 18%, Long 8%, Right 11%
7i: Left 13%, Short 13%, Long 0%, Right 0%

Other than with the 8i, other misses can occur at the same rate.

With the longer clubs it gets ugly. Why? Is it because I abruptly stop taking enough club? No. It's because as the clubs get longer, the ball striking gets worse. So when I pull a 6i for a 7i distance, there's a greater chance that it's going offline. If I flush it it'll go even further off line or, if I'm "lucky", straight over the green and into the creek or woods behind.

Maybe I'm outside the skill level this thread was intended for??? But the difference between my mishit, slight mishit (typical), well-struck and flushed shots is greater than 10 or 15 yards.

In my world, leaving an approach short isn't a problem while hitting one out of bounds is. The root cause has little to do club selection and everything to do about inconsistent ball striking.

These are extremely low miss rates all across the board for someone with a "high" handicap. Are you really hitting the green >50% of the time with these clubs?

Also, you will miss short a lot on longer approaches, but I think your misses should probably be more balanced with these shorter clubs.

 

[leftshot]

Maybe I'm outside the skill level this thread was intended for???

Yeah, it's not about your skill level, but rather about the skill level of the person described in the OP. The idea is to put yourself in their shoes.

Also, I lived many years in Michigan. I assume you are not on the upper peninsula as people who live there usually use that term. Do you live more over by Traverse City, Mackinaw City, Gaylord, or Alpena? In the summer I spent time in all those areas.

 

[JonMA1]

Do you live more over by Traverse City, Mackinaw City, Gaylord, or Alpena? In the summer I spent time in all those areas.

Wexford County (Mesick, just south of Traverse City).

These are extremely low miss rates all across the board for someone with a "high" handicap. Are you really hitting the green >50% of the time with these clubs?

Maybe with my GW or 9i, but overall, no way. My overall GIR was closer to 25% last year, and has been as high as 33% in 2017. There are a lot of weaknesses beyond approach shots with wedges and short irons. I don't hit a lot of penalties with these clubs but they are not factored in.

These stats are from the GameGolf app and measure approaches to a 15yd target area. They are not an indication of GIRs but rather proximity to the green - which I thought was relative to the discussion. They can be sorted by club or distance. I have several years of data, but I used 2020 with the set of irons I'm currently using for the numbers listed above. Probably less than half my rounds were recorded and are a little worse compared to the complete data set. I average close to 100 on shorter easy courses and my unofficial index is somewhere around 25.

Also, you will miss short a lot on longer approaches, but I think your misses should probably be more balanced with these shorter clubs.

You're right in that it probably "should" be more balanced but it's not even close. Definitely a huge weakness in my game with lots of penalties. (@lil'mike you want to weight in? Lol.) What I'm most impressed with watching better players is their ability to control contact and dispersion with long irons and hybrids.

Back to the topic, I don't have a problem pulling a 7i for an approach to an elevated green 120 yards away. But it is less because I anticipate poor contact and more because it's just the right club. If I do make poor contact and it stays short - which will happen at times, it was still the right club to pull.

 

[Gus R]

No to me that is just looking for a bad outcome.

 

[robrandalgz]

I never plan for a mishit regardless of how I'm swinging for the day. A set up for failure.

 

[greenOak]

@JonMA1 - these look like very good club selection to me. You miss >15 yards short a lot more than you miss >15 yards long (aside from blading wedges it’s usually quite hard to miss big long), but your median shot seems to be finishing close to pin high which is what’s really important.

 

[RecGolfer]

No. I try to always pick a shot I know I can hit.

 

[RecGolfer]

At my home course, a majority of holes have big trouble long. I've never seen the sense in planning a shot where, if struck well, would result in a lost ball or other similar trouble.

Hogan said to figure out what club would carry the green then take one club less than that.