Does Forgiveness Matter in Wedges?

JB

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The new Cleveland RTX ZipCore wedges have been getting rave reviews as of late on the THP Forum. With many golfers using this end of their bag as extensions to their irons, we got to thinking about forgiveness and how it impacts full swings. Here is Cleveland RTX ZipCore vs CBX2 wedges.

Our content is about answering your questions and this is the number one question we have received about wedges…Does Forgiveness Matter? This is a pretty eye opening video showing the swings and data from two VERY different styles and let you decide which would be right for you.

The goal was simple, to show two very different wedge styles and what impact that would have for those that use them for full swings. When we began shooting, we genuinely had no idea what the outcome would be. There is no denying how solid both of the lines from Cleveland Golf are, but outside of being from the same company, stark differences exist.

Important to note that there will be some sole and versatility differences between these two lines. As you get into flighting, workability and some areas around the green other aspects become apparent. For this comparison however, we wanted to focus on the question we get asked the most. Does forgiveness matter in wedges and using Cleveland RTX ZipCore vs CBX2 wedges to demonstrate.



After watching the video above, which one is right for you and what style of wedge do you play? You can find more information about both ZipCore and CBX2 at their website here.

Continue reading...
 

DataDude

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Lower launch, more spin, little extra distance. Good work @Canadan and an interesting video.
 

gkeller813

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Great topic, and this is a comparison I've been wondering about for a while.

Question. Seems like the CBX2 is made for full shots while the Zipcore would be for working the ball a bit more. Would you think a good option for people who are creative around the green would be to get the Zipcore in a higher loft for greenside shots, then the CBX2 in a lower loft to pair more for shots that require a full swing? I see most people wanting the same set of wedges throughout, but this data might suggest going that route could have some benefits.

Great video!
 

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Great topic, and this is a comparison I've been wondering about for a while.

Question. Seems like the CBX2 is made for full shots while the Zipcore would be for working the ball a bit more. Would you think a good option for people who are creative around the green would be to get the Zipcore in a higher loft for greenside shots, then the CBX2 in a lower loft to pair more for shots that require a full swing? I see most people wanting the same set of wedges throughout, but this data might suggest going that route could have some benefits.

Great video!
I think it will depend on the person and how much sole differences they play with around the green for versatility. The CBX2 is more versatile than people think as Cleveland did a pretty darn good job with the sole. With that said, the ZipCore definitely has some merit there.
 

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I think it will depend on the person and how much sole differences they play with around the green for versatility. The CBX2 is more versatile than people think as Cleveland did a pretty darn good job with the sole. With that said, the ZipCore definitely has some merit there.
This this this, not to mention, they added the CBX full face which offers a more versatile grind in those touch shot realms to increase the ability to still manipulate shots as needed.
 

gkeller813

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I think it will depend on the person and how much sole differences they play with around the green for versatility. The CBX2 is more versatile than people think as Cleveland did a pretty darn good job with the sole. With that said, the ZipCore definitely has some merit there.
I really like the Zipcore around the green. Have an RTX-3 CB that I enjoy on full shots, but not really anything less that 3/4 swing. I havent considered the CBX2 because of this experience with the RTX-3 CB, but sounds like I may need to rethink that position and give it a try.
 

Kenomikes

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Do you think the numbers would change much if you used your gamer ball or a urethane ball?

This is a nice test, I too switched from a blade wedge (Vokey SM7) to a more forgiving wedge (Ping Glide 3.0).
 

baylrballa

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Great topic, and this is a comparison I've been wondering about for a while.

Question. Seems like the CBX2 is made for full shots while the Zipcore would be for working the ball a bit more. Would you think a good option for people who are creative around the green would be to get the Zipcore in a higher loft for greenside shots, then the CBX2 in a lower loft to pair more for shots that require a full swing? I see most people wanting the same set of wedges throughout, but this data might suggest going that route could have some benefits.

Great video!
The CBX2 was useless for me with full swings but pretty nice for chips and pitches. 🤷‍♂️
 

Jman

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Great video Canadan.

Having reviewed the CBX and CBX2, they’re eye openers in what they do and just how they feel. Maybe not the most versatile, but for straight forward golfers that flight and spin, but more importantly the consistency, is a potential boon for their games.

Well done!
 

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If you want more forginess on full swings then purchase the GW that comes with your iron set. It will be far more forgiving than any cavity back wedge.

If you need added forgivness on chip and pitch shots then practice more. The loss of feel and control is not worth the trade-off that comes with any cavity back wedge.
 

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Do you think the numbers would change much if you used your gamer ball or a urethane ball?

This is a nice test, I too switched from a blade wedge (Vokey SM7) to a more forgiving wedge (Ping Glide 3.0).
The urethane ball might have increased spin a bit, but as you get further away from the green and are hitting full shots, the spin difference isn't as high as some believe it to be. Compression would be similar to his regular ball.


If you want more forginess on full swings then purchase the GW that comes with your iron set. It will be far more forgiving than any cavity back wedge.
I'm curious if you watched the video?
Because I don't necessarily agree with this and it would be completely dependent based on the set of irons. A good example of that is the new JPX-921 lineup.
 

gkeller813

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The CBX2 was useless for me with full swings but pretty nice for chips and pitches. 🤷‍♂️
I'll just have to do some testing haha. Truth be told, I dont use many full wedge shots, unless its PW, during a round. This was more observations I had while at the range or practicing in the backyard.
 

Jman

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The CBX2 was useless for me with full swings but pretty nice for chips and pitches. 🤷‍♂️
I struggled in the GW until I put the same shaft I played in my irons into it. That said, not everything fits everyone in this crazy game of ours haha (y);)
 

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If you want more forginess on full swings then purchase the GW that comes with your iron set. It will be far more forgiving than any cavity back wedge.

If you need added forgivness on chip and pitch shots then practice more. The loss of feel and control is not worth the trade-off that comes with any cavity back wedge.
I think that’s an old path that with the advent of clubs like the CBX2 and even now Callaways CB wedge option is going away. These give the best of both worlds potentially and bridge a gap that needed bridging.

It’s always easy to say practice more, and it’s usually true, but why do we still refuse to believe that a club design can aid in that and make the game more enjoyable as well?
 

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I really like the Zipcore around the green. Have an RTX-3 CB that I enjoy on full shots, but not really anything less that 3/4 swing. I havent considered the CBX2 because of this experience with the RTX-3 CB, but sounds like I may need to rethink that position and give it a try.
Such a different beast for sure. (y)
 

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Have always used blade wedges; cb wedges have never been on my radar. It seems they are growing in popularity. Excited to try them out and compare against my Jaws
 

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@JB this video and others like it, are they available in the THP app?
 

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Great video - love that a player of Dan’s caliber would fit into the more forgiving profile in this instance. Perhaps we should stop labeling clubs as “player” vs “forgiving” - I am sure someone on this forum can come up with something.

I have had very good experiences with the “forgiving” wedges - I have CBX, HiToe, and HiToe Bigfoot in the bag. I think I will stay in that profile wedge for the foreseeable future.
 

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Interesting stuff. I haven’t hit the CBX. Zipcore 54mid and 60low in the bag are so far my dream wedges. I like to create shots around the green, and these give me consistency and control. I am comfortable with full swings as well. I also know I haven’t liked wedges with wider soles. Now gap wedge I might consider other options. Currently playing a JAWS 50S there and it does the job. Not sure what I would gain with a change. I mostly hit full and partial swing shots with GW. I also use it to flight down little pitches and occassionally for chips.
 

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I think that’s an old path that with the advent of clubs like the CBX2 and even now Callaways CB wedge option is going away. These give the best of both worlds potentially and bridge a gap that needed bridging.

It’s always easy to say practice more, and it’s usually true, but why do we still refuse to believe that a club design can aid in that and make the game more enjoyable as well?
I’ve always thought it strange that so many golfers play GI or SGI irons and automatically go to a traditional muscle back design for their wedges. Obviously something like the CBX2 would leave many of us closer to the hole after our approach. If these have tighter dispersion for a plus index like @Canadan, it stands to reason they could help a bogey golfer even more.

I gamed a CBX SW for a few years and cavity back Taylomade ATV LW & SW when my index was at it’s lowest point in decades about 7 years ago. After watching the video I may have to revisit my thinking and add a couple of CBX2 wedges to my bag. I’ll throw my old CBX GW in my bag for my rounds this weekend and see how I hit it.
 

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Having played both wedges in the past (and currently), I also saw launch and spin results similar to what Dan experienced.

@Canadan: if you had to put one of those in your bag right now, which would it be?
 

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Oh man I swear I haven’t done anything wrong, but I’m definitely in need of some wedge forgiveness! Definitely curious to see how I’d adapt around the green, but I had some success with my PW earlier this year so I’m sure I could adjust. Great video!
 

Canadan

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If you want more forginess on full swings then purchase the GW that comes with your iron set. It will be far more forgiving than any cavity back wedge.
What if you play a set of cavity back irons that doesn't have a set GW? Also, if it's a player CB, what makes it more forgiving than the CBX2 wedge? Painting a rather broad stroke there, no?

If you need added forgivness on chip and pitch shots then practice more. The loss of feel and control is not worth the trade-off that comes with any cavity back wedge.
What if you don't need forgiveness, you need straight line distance to fill a gap? I am happy to show my dispersion on the face representing a fairly similar area of contact - and the CBX2 was pretty much unanimously better in both feel and control.
 

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