Does Forgiveness Matter in Wedges?

chile

Jive Turkey
Albatross 2022 Club
Joined
Oct 16, 2019
Messages
10,379
Reaction score
11,079
Location
Earf
Handicap
Hubris
forgiveness matters...period? that being said, i like the feel of the zipcores vs my cbx's...i use both and have no issue with either but if i HAD to choose, it'd be zipcore.
 

jdtox

The Peoples Captain
Albatross 2022 Club
Staff member
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
34,336
Reaction score
21,553
Location
Michigan
Handicap
6
Great video. Really eye opening actually. I wonder why more companies don't make this type of wedge?
 

MattyD-MPLS

Captain for The 2021 Grandaddy
Albatross 2022 Club
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
12,201
Reaction score
20,423
Location
Minneapolis, Minnesota
Handicap
+0.7
I was impressed by the consistency of the CBX 2. Golfers should try to take the most variables out and try to do the same thing. I am very interested in a CB wedge like CBX2 and the Mack Daddy CB in the gap(48-50*) and the sand wedge(54*).
 
Last edited:

OldandStiff

AlsoBald
Albatross 2022 Club
Joined
Jul 23, 2019
Messages
24,450
Reaction score
42,386
Location
AR
Handicap
+
I wonder if you and the spinner shaft do not really get along...
I wondered the same thing about the shaft. I'm not a big fan of the stock spinner and it shows up in my dispersion on full shots. I was surprised to hear Dan's been playing them for years. Wouldn't have guessed that from this video. All very interesting.
 
Last edited:

OldeDude

Still Alive and Well
Albatross 2022 Club
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
6,178
Reaction score
6,023
Location
Sierra Foothills, CA
Handicap
--18--
No, but the sole grind is super versatile. And I say that as one who loves low bounce in his LW (y)
I've absolutely seen that in my ZipCore Tour Rack wedge. The Full / S-Shaped sole is very similar to the sole on the CBX2 56*, and I've found it to be very forgiving on the 60* LW. The sole on my RTX4 60* is more of a C-Grind, and with only 6* bounce it is not very forgiving, but I trust the low-bounce on hard bunkers and tight hard-pan lies.
 
Last edited:

Mark_UK

Legal Alien
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
10,655
Reaction score
2,433
Location
Monterey, CA
Handicap
NCGA 12.8
I switched to the Ping glide at the beginning of the year, which I would assume is classed as a forgiving wedge. My short game has improved noticeably since the switch. Now I’ve switched, playing cavities in all the clubs then switching to a blade in the wedges seems crazy.
 

Snickerdog

Team THP 2019 Grandaddy Alumni
Albatross 2022 Club
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
Messages
33,839
Reaction score
31,009
Location
KS
Handicap
2.4
I will have to watch video at home tonight. That being said forgiveness matters in everything we play to a point. I believe there is a comfort point of feel vs forgiveness to many people. If you don't feel comfortable with a club you won't like it no matter what.
 

OldandStiff

AlsoBald
Albatross 2022 Club
Joined
Jul 23, 2019
Messages
24,450
Reaction score
42,386
Location
AR
Handicap
+
Great content, guys. The Soft Feel combo with those wedges was really interesting to see. Feels like not enough club reviews use the ball (s) people who play particular clubs actually use. I really liked that. Interesting numbers as well.

I'm big on forgiveness in wedges for most people and have been screaming it this entire year. Hopefully a few more eyes have been opened. Good stuff.
 
Last edited:

Jman

Golf Writer Guy
Albatross 2022 Club
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2010
Messages
144,525
Reaction score
43,512
Location
Oklahoma
Handicap
4.7
Just watched this again, props once more to the smoothness and content of this one. So good.
 

Gman79

Optimistic about golf in 2022!!!
Albatross 2022 Club
Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Messages
14,349
Reaction score
12,065
Location
The Land...OH-IO
Handicap
16
The standard deviation (read: variance) in dispersion, while small, was doubled with ZipCore over CBX2. My impression was that CBX2 was incredibly consistent, and the data stands to confirm that.

Also, does the conversation have to be about the full wedge spectrum? Considering I use my 58 exclusively around the green, why would I care that my 54 or 50 didn't have the same grind versatility?
Excellent video and discussion on these two great wedges.

With that on consistent performance should people look at 50/56 for CBX2 and zipcore for the high lofted wedge? are you making that bag adjustment?
 

tequila4kapp

Well-known member
Albatross 2022 Club
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
36,638
Reaction score
5,855
Location
Tigard, OR
Handicap
USGA 13.5
Very interesting video. I’m tempted by a certain driver but my game would be helped most by changing the other end of the bag to have more forgiving wedges on full swing shots. This is great info for that consideration.
 

fuffle master

Shaft it Up!!
Albatross 2022 Club
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
11,090
Reaction score
7,557
Handicap
17.3
Really interesting and I am a bit surprised by the numbers.

I went from the RTX-3 CB to the ZipCore and was seeing a bit more distance and a ton more spin. But, it looks like the CBX2 for Dan was crushing it. Almost 2000 more spin, less variance, longer distance. All great numbers.
 

maxw72

Well-known member
Albatross 2022 Club
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
1,522
Reaction score
1,727
Location
Northern Utah
Handicap
17.8
Before I picked up the Cobra MIM wedges I was using the CBX2 in a 52 and the Full Face in a 56 and 60. Cleveland has made some great wedges and looking at them they just put that little bit of extra confidence as you address the ball. My issue is I'm a "scooper' of the ball with my wedges so I found myself taking big divots with my TItleist wedges. The Cleveland wedges just give you the feel of a GI iron which is awesome! They are great wedges....but I do love those MIM wedges :)
 

camden_kid

Well-known member
Albatross 2022 Club
Joined
Oct 24, 2020
Messages
1,460
Reaction score
1,098
Location
London
Thanks. Very interesting. I'm nowhere near appreciating the differences but the CBX2 seemed pretty good.
 

mtbloco

Go Blue!
Albatross 2022 Club
Joined
Jul 15, 2019
Messages
9,906
Reaction score
16,416
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Handicap
If you want more forginess on full swings then purchase the GW that comes with your iron set. It will be far more forgiving than any cavity back wedge.

If you need added forgivness on chip and pitch shots then practice more. The loss of feel and control is not worth the trade-off that comes with any cavity back wedge.
I do both. I have the "gap" wedge from my iron set which is my 110 yard club and then go to the CBX2 in 54* which is my 100 yard club Rather good yardage gaps IMO for full shots. I really enjoy its forgiveness just as Dan pointed out.
 

Hackapotamus

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
100
Reaction score
9
Location
PA
Handicap
6.2
Enjoyed this video a lot. Would be interesting to run a similar test with a 15 handicap. My gut tells me that the dispersion difference would be at least as great and maybe moreso.
 

Sox_Fan

#FreemanEra
Albatross 2022 Club
Joined
Feb 10, 2012
Messages
47,744
Reaction score
11,000
Location
South Georgia
Handicap
Varies
I play the blade style (ZipCore) and think that is right for my game. I do flight my wedges quite a bit. I was kind of surprised the launch angle was 2.5 degrees higher with the ZipCore. I would have thought it would have been reversed.
 

WMac19

Well-known member
Albatross 2022 Club
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
6,664
Reaction score
1,274
Location
Clayton, NC
Handicap
8.0
I've always bought into a more forgiving wedge. While I haven't quite liked the feel of many of the CB wedges that I've tried over the years, I have long preferred larger wedges.

Whether their's was real or perceived forgiveness, I much prefer the psychological comfort that a larger wedge provides me.

Lately it's been two iterations of the PM Grind, the Hi-Toe, CBX, and currently I'm back to my Fourteen RM-22J wedges.
 

-CRW-

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 5, 2013
Messages
9,966
Reaction score
1,540
The standard deviation (read: variance) in dispersion, while small, was doubled with ZipCore over CBX2. My impression was that CBX2 was incredibly consistent, and the data stands to confirm that.

Also, does the conversation have to be about the full wedge spectrum? Considering I use my 58 exclusively around the green, why would I care that my 54 or 50 didn't have the same grind versatility?
For the first part, you were spinning the CBX’s more. That would account for the small improvement in consistency. But you kept swings in the results that were several mph faster with the CBX versus the RTX so you can’t suggest the head caused that, regardless of what @Jman or others may see. All things being equal, an increase in club head speed will increase spin. So to confirm the head added spin you'd need to keep shots in your results that are consistent between both clubs. You’d really need the same shafts as well, but that’s not likely to help the average consumer who will opt for the stock shaft and I get that.

As for the second part, the lack of options may not matter to you, but may to others. So it should be in the conversation, but not as a deal breaker for everyone. Some may want more grind/bounce options and they have that with the Cleveland traditional wedges. It’s just my opinion, but I see no real benefits in the numbers from this test to justify giving up options for the CBX.
 

Nate<80

Well-known member
Albatross 2022 Club
Joined
Feb 24, 2020
Messages
3,392
Reaction score
2,365
Handicap
14.3 Grint
Great swinging @Canadan, awesome comparison.

I am shocked that the ZipCore was outperformed in most categories, specifically the spin. I have noticed the spin with my ZipCore to be better than any other wedge I have played. That is just out on the course as I have not done any comparisons on a simulator.
 

IceyShanks

NiceyThanks
Albatross 2022 Club
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
52,704
Reaction score
2,376
Location
Nebraska
For full shots, say through the SW I would say yes, if it's 58* or more I don't think I'd worry about it as much
 

Canadan

You Are Great
Albatross 2022 Club
Staff member
Joined
May 16, 2010
Messages
118,070
Reaction score
49,296
Location
Ohio
Handicap
**
For the first part, you were spinning the CBX’s more. That would account for the small improvement in consistency. But you kept swings in the results that were several mph faster with the CBX versus the RTX so you can’t suggest the head caused that, regardless of what @Jman or others may see. All things being equal, an increase in club head speed will increase spin. So to confirm the head added spin you'd need to keep shots in your results that are consistent between both clubs. You’d really need the same shafts as well, but that’s not likely to help the average consumer who will opt for the stock shaft and I get that.

As for the second part, the lack of options may not matter to you, but may to others. So it should be in the conversation, but not as a deal breaker for everyone. Some may want more grind/bounce options and they have that with the Cleveland traditional wedges. It’s just my opinion, but I see no real benefits in the numbers from this test to justify giving up options for the CBX.
what do you mean by 'kept swings'? We didn't throw away anything - Would defeat the purpose.

Also; ball speed is a representation of strike quality in most conditions, no? If I'm hitting nearly identical profiles, it's not like I'll be swinging faster with one or the other. Is that not a perfect representation of the improved consistency of CBX2?
 
  • Like
Reactions: JB

Canadan

You Are Great
Albatross 2022 Club
Staff member
Joined
May 16, 2010
Messages
118,070
Reaction score
49,296
Location
Ohio
Handicap
**
Enjoyed this video a lot. Would be interesting to run a similar test with a 15 handicap. My gut tells me that the dispersion difference would be at least as great and maybe moreso.
Based on the strike pattern (hopefully not ego), I think having a finite variance is a great representation of the differences in the head. And while I absolutely agree it'd be fun to have a variety of players hit the heads to showcase the differences, you start to fall away from what matters most (the head performance) and rely more heavily on the strike quality (the player).
 

Hackapotamus

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
100
Reaction score
9
Location
PA
Handicap
6.2
Based on the strike pattern (hopefully not ego), I think having a finite variance is a great representation of the differences in the head. And while I absolutely agree it'd be fun to have a variety of players hit the heads to showcase the differences, you start to fall away from what matters most (the head performance) and rely more heavily on the strike quality (the player).
That’s a great point. Would just be curious to see how five toe strikes on each head would compare, for example. In any event, I appreciate the thought and nuance that went into this.
 

Nerdy_81

Winter golf season
Albatross 2022 Club
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
7,472
Reaction score
3,672
Location
Marysville, Ohio
Handicap
14
Good stuff as always. The last set of Cleveland wedges I had (RTX3's) I found to be great around the green, but a little more difficult on full shots. I think for me, if I went the Cleveland route again, I'd probably do a bit of a combo with the CBX in the 50/52/54 slot and then the Zip in the 56/60.
 

Welcome to The Hackers Paradise

Don't just play golf, live it!

Register Log in
Top