Does Forgiveness Matter in Wedges?

H8tobogie

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Nice video Dan! I could use the forgiveness for sure and that full face option is really intriguing.
 

Dartgod

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This was pretty interesting given that I recently added the CBX2 to my bag in 54 and 58 degrees.

As a very high handicapper, wedges were an after thought for me. I generally used the gap wedge that came with my iron set around the green to varying degrees of success. I've only had the CBX2's out for 3 rounds and I'm already getting more and more comfortable with them. Depending on the situation, I am almost always grabbing one of them when I miss yet another approach shot. I love them and can't wait to get even more confident with them.
 

millsan1

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Gun to my head, I'm CBX2, but I'd be hard pressed to move away from Jaws.
 

bombs

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What if you play a set of cavity back irons that doesn't have a set GW? Also, if it's a player CB, what makes it more forgiving than the CBX2 wedge? Painting a rather broad stroke there, no?
The market that cavity back wedges are targeting would be better served by their set GW in almost all situations.

If someone is good enough to play cavity back irons they should not need the added help of a cavity back gap wedge.

I would never recommend using cavity back wedges for sand or lob wedges. These are clubs where touch and feel should be valued over full shot forgiveness.

I would also never recommmend mixing wedges i.e. a Set PW, 50 CBX then 54/58 zipcore. Too much variation in feel etc.
 

Mark_UK

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I would never recommend using cavity back wedges for sand or lob wedges. These are clubs where touch and feel should be valued over full shot forgiveness.
That would be a pretty poor recommendation then.
 
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Kenomikes

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Great content, guys. The Soft Feel combo with those wedges was really interesting to see. Feels like not enough club reviews use the ball (s) people who play particular clubs actually use. I really liked that. Interesting numbers as well.

I'm big on forgiveness in wedges for most people and have been screaming it this entire year. Hopefully a few more eyes have been opened. Good stuff.
I heard your screams, one of the main reasons I switched from Vokey to Glide 3.0’s.
 

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what do you mean by 'kept swings'? We didn't throw away anything - Would defeat the purpose.

Also; ball speed is a representation of strike quality in most conditions, no? If I'm hitting nearly identical profiles, it's not like I'll be swinging faster with one or the other. Is that not a perfect representation of the improved consistency of CBX2?
Disregard everything I’ve said. I was thinking the left column was club head speed bc low 90’s is what I’d expect from your swing out of a wedge seeing past videos. I didn’t even look up on that column to see it was ball speed. My bad.
 

pinseeker

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Great topic, and this is a comparison I've been wondering about for a while.

Question. Seems like the CBX2 is made for full shots while the Zipcore would be for working the ball a bit more. Would you think a good option for people who are creative around the green would be to get the Zipcore in a higher loft for greenside shots, then the CBX2 in a lower loft to pair more for shots that require a full swing? I see most people wanting the same set of wedges throughout, but this data might suggest going that route could have some benefits.

Great video!
I been thinking of this also. I recently bought an RTX-4 just before the zip core came out. I have it in 50/10-Mid. I still have Tour Edge 56 and 60. I will probably swap out the TE 56 with the CBX2 and more than likely full grind. (just the opposite of what this post suggests). I really cannot give you a good reason other than maybe for greenside bunker.
 

Canadan

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The market that cavity back wedges are targeting would be better served by their set GW in almost all situations.

If someone is good enough to play cavity back irons they should not need the added help of a cavity back gap wedge.

I would never recommend using cavity back wedges for sand or lob wedges. These are clubs where touch and feel should be valued over full shot forgiveness.

I would also never recommmend mixing wedges i.e. a Set PW, 50 CBX then 54/58 zipcore. Too much variation in feel etc.
These comments are a little bit baffling to me - Maybe because we perceive the game differently. Is there a skill threshold that says someone doesn't benefit from a cavity back product? Where does the line get drawn? Rickie Fowler used an SGI 4 iron last year on tour, should he turn in his tour card?

Also, if someone uses a CB iron in the PW, why does that automagically requires the next club in his bag to be a bladed wedge? I'll absolutely concede that there are benefits to set-based wedges, but I also think a lot of golfers like having three 'wedges' in their bag unique to their irons.

Furthering this, after hitting five shots with each, in a fairly small dispersion pattern on both faces, I saw better ball speed, tighter dispersion, and what I would potentially argue to be more enjoyable 'feel' using the CBX2 from a personal perspective.

I also have a better-than-scratch handicap based on GHIN at the moment. Am I ineligible to benefit from these, despite what the video presents?
 

shanewu

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Interesting numbers for sure. The CBX2 is a wedge I'd like to try one of these days.
 

pinseeker

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These comments are a little bit baffling to me - Maybe because we perceive the game differently. Is there a skill threshold that says someone doesn't benefit from a cavity back product? Where does the line get drawn? Rickie Fowler used an SGI 4 iron last year on tour, should he turn in his tour card?

Also, if someone uses a CB iron in the PW, why does that automagically requires the next club in his bag to be a bladed wedge? I'll absolutely concede that there are benefits to set-based wedges, but I also think a lot of golfers like having three 'wedges' in their bag unique to their irons.

Furthering this, after hitting five shots with each, in a fairly small dispersion pattern on both faces, I saw better ball speed, tighter dispersion, and what I would potentially argue to be more enjoyable 'feel' using the CBX2 from a personal perspective.

I also have a better-than-scratch handicap based on GHIN at the moment. Am I ineligible to benefit from these, despite what the video presents?
and sometimes the reverse is true. I hit my Icon's better than my EXi's, my Titleist MB 5 iron better than either of the others. Granted, my skill level is not nearly as good as many, consistency varies, but I know which feel and play better. of course, we are really talking abut wedges here.
 

Canadan

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and sometimes the reverse is true. I hit my Icon's better than my EXi's, my Titleist MB 5 iron better than either of the others. Granted, my skill level is not nearly as good as many, consistency varies, but I know which feel and play better. of course, we are really talking abut wedges here.
I think the point is more about totally eliminating a segment of golfers from a product like this purely based on skill level, which i think is a reach.

What I do appreciate, is that we all have differing levels of perspective on what we 'can' or 'should' play. Whether it's mental, whether it's results driven, whether it's purely trying to look cool - I'm good with that at the individual level. But to eliminate based on skill? No thanks.
 

Jman

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I think the point is more about totally eliminating a segment of golfers from a product like this purely based on skill level, which i think is a reach.

What I do appreciate, is that we all have differing levels of perspective on what we 'can' or 'should' play. Whether it's mental, whether it's results driven, whether it's purely trying to look cool - I'm good with that at the individual level. But to eliminate based on skill? No thanks.
Stone cold truth.
 

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Great video, very interesting to see how consistent the CBX is. I'm a bit surprised at how close the 2 were in distance, I was expecting a blended set might cause gapping issues with wedges but they look pretty close. As a high handicapper this is just more evidence that I need to look at these for my next wedges set. I'm thinking about going with a blended set with 2 CBX wedges for full shots and a blade style wedge for short game.
 

Canadan

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Great video, very interesting to see how consistent the CBX is. I'm a bit surprised at how close the 2 were in distance, I was expecting a blended set might cause gapping issues with wedges but they look pretty close. As a high handicapper this is just more evidence that I need to look at these for my next wedges set. I'm thinking about going with a blended set with 2 CBX wedges for full shots and a blade style wedge for short game.
Thanks for watching!

I went in with mild expectations but an open mind, and was absolutely shocked. I thought ZipCore would have been my absolute.
 

Joshnoble01

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I’ve noodled around a thought for a while since I got the cbx2 and full face wedges. I think even better players would benefit from forgiving wedges more than they would irons. Don’t have any underlying data that proves me right. Just a thought I’ve had.
 

templeton80

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I watched the video a second time and i looked at your pictures of impact. With how consistent your impact is. Which is impressive.

with the consistency of impact are we testing forgiveness? Or just that a higher moi parameter weighted wedges may be more efficient?
 

Canadan

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I watched the video a second time and i looked at your pictures of impact. With how consistent your impact is. Which is impressive.

with the consistency of impact are we testing forgiveness? Or just that a higher moi parameter weighted wedges may be more efficient?
I think we're considering a specific threshold that doesn't get talked about enough, and that's the ability to hit the intended shot without it being at the 'cost' of something like perceived 'control' or direction.

I've always believed heavily in the perspective that you should play the absolute most forgiving iron that you can without feeling like it's costing you anything (whether assumed or experienced). Basically, a shape that supports your errors while still making you have confidence in your ability to hit 'your' shot.

In this case, I think CBX2 promotes that invisible level of 'forgiveness' as it relates to miniscule variances on the face (not extreme error). It really supports the idea that this wedge can be viable in a much deeper collective of bags than what may have been assumed after a century of bladed wedges being norm.
 

templeton80

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Your a better golfer than I am for sure. I don’t question that. And I agree that forgiveness is important in everyone’s game and that a “forgiving” club probably execute 95% or more any shot a more “precision” geared club could.

I agree with all of that. Just have some other thoughts and questions going through my small brain as well...

just don’t want them to come across challenging as they are not. Just curious to discuss..
 

JB

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Your a better golfer than I am for sure. I don’t question that. And I agree that forgiveness is important in everyone’s game and that a “forgiving” club probably execute 95% or more any shot a more “precision” geared club could.

I agree with all of that. Just have some other thoughts and questions going through my small brain as well...

just don’t want them to come across challenging as they are not. Just curious to discuss..
Discussion is good!
 

Canadan

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Your a better golfer than I am for sure. I don’t question that. And I agree that forgiveness is important in everyone’s game and that a “forgiving” club probably execute 95% or more any shot a more “precision” geared club could.

I agree with all of that. Just have some other thoughts and questions going through my small brain as well...

just don’t want them to come across challenging as they are not. Just curious to discuss..
I absolutely LOVE debating the crazy nuances of the golf game. Especially when they force us to think in a way that isn't normally presented. It's very fun for me.

Glad you're engaging in it.
 

templeton80

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I absolutely LOVE debating the crazy nuances of the golf game. Especially when they force us to think in a way that isn't normally presented. It's very fun for me.

Glad you're engaging in it.
Anything that challenges conventional thinking is good and I am for. I love these tech studio segments for that reason.

I am just wondering if 5 full swing with two clubs really shows what you are saying. Not that what you are saying is wrong. I don’t think it is. But, Where does the trade off or give and take start to show?

half shots? 3 quarter? If you wanted to flight one Up or down? Etc? There has to be something you are gaining or losing with one design or the other..
 

Newman21

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Great video. Impressive how well you hit the CBX wedge. I have the original CBX wedges (SW and LW) and they were great on full shots but touchy, partial shots were not great for me. I was not able to spin them as much as other wedges either on less than full shots (pitches and chips).
 

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