Does Forgiveness Matter in Wedges?

wristcock

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given most golfers (ballpark 20 and above handicappers) struggle with the higher-lofted wedges and often select them when they are unlikely to pull off the planned shot...I'd say forgiveness would be helpful indeed.
 

Badger_Golfer

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The new Cleveland RTX ZipCore wedges have been getting rave reviews as of late on the THP Forum. With many golfers using this end of their bag as extensions to their irons, we got to thinking about forgiveness and how it impacts full swings. Here is Cleveland RTX ZipCore vs CBX2 wedges.

Our content is about answering your questions and this is the number one question we have received about wedges…Does Forgiveness Matter? This is a pretty eye opening video showing the swings and data from two VERY different styles and let you decide which would be right for you.

The goal was simple, to show two very different wedge styles and what impact that would have for those that use them for full swings. When we began shooting, we genuinely had no idea what the outcome would be. There is no denying how solid both of the lines from Cleveland Golf are, but outside of being from the same company, stark differences exist.

Important to note that there will be some sole and versatility differences between these two lines. As you get into flighting, workability and some areas around the green other aspects become apparent. For this comparison however, we wanted to focus on the question we get asked the most. Does forgiveness matter in wedges and using Cleveland RTX ZipCore vs CBX2 wedges to demonstrate.


After watching the video above, which one is right for you and what style of wedge do you play? You can find more information about both ZipCore and CBX2 at their website here.

Continue reading...
In a word: nope! Ive played blade style wedges and Ive played cavity back wedges, Cleveland CBX included and noticed absolutely no difference in terms of performance or forgivness.
I wish that I could find a link for it but a while back I heard a podcast with Mizuno's club designer Chris Voshall where he said that cavity backs really dont matter in wedges because the extreme loft already makes them extremely forgiving and you really dont gain anything with a cavity back in a wedge.
IMO, cavity back wedges are nothing more than marketing fluff and a placebo effect. They tell people that theyre more forgiving and people believe it because why wouldnt cavity back wedges be more forgiving but it just doesnt hold true. Its yet another case of what golfers believe is true and what the real truth is can be 2 very different things.
 

JB

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In a word: nope! Ive played blade style wedges and Ive played cavity back wedges, Cleveland CBX included and noticed absolutely no difference in terms of performance or forgivness.
curious if you watched the video showing the data. 😀
 

brian7770

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That was certainly interesting data to support the CBX2. For full shots, I would imagine I'd prefer a good cavity back, but my new wedges are Mizuno T20s and were selected with the appropriate sole grind and bounce (for my game) for the partial shots I'm likely to be making a vast majority of the time with those wedges. Plus, when I was fitted, the T20s seemed to have good consistency for me.
 

TCB2010

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The video shows Dan hit the cbx2 pretty dang well, the numbers and control/playability showed better than the zip core.
I absolutely believe there’s a place for cavity back wedges.
For me I’ve struggled with a wider sole wedge and seem to have more confidence in a blade style.
The wedge game is always a work in progress though..
 

Desmond

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The video shows Dan hit the cbx2 pretty dang well, the numbers and control/playability showed better than the zip core.
I absolutely believe there’s a place for cavity back wedges.
For me I’ve struggled with a wider sole wedge and seem to have more confidence in a blade style.
The wedge game is always a work in progress though..
I went to a shop after seeing the vid - that CBX2 looked huge compared to the ZipCore or what I play - MP T20.

I can see it working for people who don't play much and it may even help peeps who won't use it because of its size. I am more likely to look at a Ping Glide 3.0 or WTH, a Mizuno ES21 - both CB-like and designed for more spin in damp conditions.
 

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I went to a shop after seeing the vid - that CBX2 looked huge compared to the ZipCore or what I play - MP T20.

I can see it working for people who don't play much and it may even help peeps who won't use it because of its size. I am more likely to look at a Ping Glide 3.0 or WTH, a Mizuno ES21 - both CB-like and designed for more spin in damp conditions.
I would argue that as the video shows, it can work for great ball strikers too.
Everybody misses, even a little and design can play such a large role there.
 

M2Giles

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So the only thing in my head that has me still curious about.

The CBX2 is a higher bounce and wider sole option. I don't think the sole geometry could be the overriding difference between the cavity vs muscle design, but it's still something Im curious about.

I'm still not sure if I'll run out and buy the CBX2 or MD CB, but it makes me think that I should be more open minded on what I use for my wedges.
 

Desmond

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I would argue that as the video shows, it can work for great ball strikers too.
Everybody misses, even a little and design can play such a large role there.
I'm not arguing against that, as I said, "it may even help peeps who won't use it because of its size."

I don't know if it's still applicable, but I remember the discussion/analysis stating the CB is more forgiving but the Blade is more precise. It is a balance? What might be great is a smaller CB - I've seen the Edison from Terry Koehler, and we've seen the ES21, but I don't know how to classify that club. That's why I was pondering the Glide 3.0 - that insert in the back makes it feel forged soft. If they did not have a 2 month waiting period, I would have ordered.
 
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JB

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I don't know if it's still applicable, but I remember the discussion/analysis stating the CB is more forgiving but the Blade is more precise.
That is exactly why we did this test and genuinely with @Canadan expected different results. What happened was the wider sole and forgiving club lacked no precision. It surprised us
 

Canadan

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That is exactly why we did this test and genuinely with @Canadan expected different results. What happened was the wider sole and forgiving club lacked no precision. It surprised us
....and sort of haunts my thoughts, honestly haha
 

Desmond

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....and sort of haunts my thoughts, honestly haha
Yes, but you've got to think about playability through real turf, odd lies and rough - the bigger head and wider sole and longer heel to toe (? - if there) can get in your way.
 

Desmond

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That is exactly why we did this test and genuinely with @Canadan expected different results. What happened was the wider sole and forgiving club lacked no precision. It surprised us
So the old discussions may not apply? I can go with that. My next consideration would be playability on real turf, odd lies and rough.
 

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This was a great test; really enjoyed watching it. Generally, I’m a pro forgiveness in all clubs.

I try to get the max forgiving clubs I can stand to look at and feel comfortable with playing. My game is t good enough to leave forgoveness on the table! :ROFLMAO:
 

Canadan

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Yes, but you've got to think about playability through real turf, odd lies and rough - the bigger head and wider sole and longer heel to toe (? - if there) can get in your way.
get in my way how, exactly?
 

Joshnoble01

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I’m curious to see a similar test with shorter yardage swing inside 100/75/50. Is this something you’ll do too?

I’m sold on the cbx 2. I have them in the bag. I love them. The only thing not making them perfect is they aren’t in raw.
 

Desmond

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get in my way how, exactly?
Playability. Bigger club, moving through rough is more difficult. How is hosel designed? Club may be tougher through uneven lies. How does the bounce interact with my swing in lush and tight lies.

That's why I can't really test a wedge until it goes through real turf. Need to see how it reacts to my various swings dependent on the lie and the pin position.
 

Canadan

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Playability. Bigger club, moving through rough is more difficult. How is hosel designed? Club may be tougher through uneven lies. How does the bounce interact with my swing in lush and tight lies.

That's why I can't really test a wedge until it goes through real turf. Need to see how it reacts to my various swings dependent on the lie and the pin position.
I could see that argument greenside, I guess.
But then again, we'd all be playing blades if wider body profiles were brutal through the rough.

To me, the give and take is critical.
 

Desmond

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I could see that argument greenside, I guess.
But then again, we'd all be playing blades if wider body profiles were brutal through the rough.

To me, the give and take is critical.
Yes, with the 54+ lofts, one finds themselves in odd places near the green. I don't mind a smaller CB Wedge - Glide 3.0 for example. It's a balance depending on the player. If you're not a creative wedge player, a bigger CB may work if you know how to handle the bigger club and twisting or the odd downhill, uphill, and sidehill lies that you may encounter. It all depends on your skill level. Options are great, depending on your game and what you like to do around the green.
 

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Yes, with the 54+ lofts, one finds themselves in odd places near the green. I don't mind a smaller CB Wedge - Glide 3.0 for example. It's a balance depending on the player. If you're not a creative wedge player, a bigger CB may work if you know how to handle the bigger club and twisting or the odd downhill, uphill, and sidehill lies that you may encounter. It all depends on your skill level. Options are great, depending on your game and what you like to do around the green.
Yeah, and I think it's worth noting that not all wedges are greenside necessary. There's a lot that goes on with 3/4 full swings with a wedge that would highly promote at least some forgiveness.

I don't contest it around the green for the 'better' player.
 
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I was just wondering if the tested wedges having two different shafts may have caused the performance differences?
 

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What do you guys think? If I am a 15 handicap is it worth it to get the zipcore or is it not forgiving enough for me?
 

OldandStiff

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What do you guys think? If I am a 15 handicap is it worth it to get the zipcore or is it not forgiving enough for me?
What kind of irons do you play? Do you take full shows with wedges, and where do you struggle most in your wedge game?
 

fuffle master

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What do you guys think? If I am a 15 handicap is it worth it to get the zipcore or is it not forgiving enough for me?
I play the ZipCore 54° and 62°. The 54° I use all the time for full shots and have loved how smooth it plays. I believe there is plenty of forgiveness inside the club. I play around 18ish for handicap.
 

Sean

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I purchased a set of CBX2's over a year ago and haven't noticed much difference between those and my former "blade" wedges. Perhaps it's because I practice my short game a lot? Also, the fact that I rarely take a full swing with my wedges may also have something to do with it.

This is just my experience.
 

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