Luchnia
You will never conquer golf.
Great point.
Dr Kwon (World Renowned Golf Biomechanics Expert) vs Shawn Clement
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Luchnia
You will never conquer golf.
From your post I think we share this in our swings. I cannot focus on my hands and arms too much. There are times when practicing that I play around with different things with my hands and arms, but on course I have to be careful of that.
I think when we use our weight better the results are better. From observing how Kwon teaches he immediately gets his students away from the "armsy" behavior and on to using the body better. It is as if he does not want them to have a mental focus on the arms and hands too much. In his instruction you rarely see him talking about them, but the swing and how to sequence the parts better.
It has always amazed me ! The greatest player of our era , Tiger Woods , explains that he focuses on his HANDS and that is considered as being something that only he can do . How did this come about ? How did we humans allow non- experts to convince us to ignore that Tiger Woods ? To ignore Ben Hogan ? To convince us that the ONLY part of your body that is attached / connected to the club / shaft you use for the task is the wrong thing to focus on when famous Neurologist tell us they CONTROL body movements?
Why have we allowed to happen ? What happened to our own skills of observation? How did we allow people to convince us not to believe what our eyes can clearly see?
Why have we allowed to happen ? What happened to our own skills of observation? How did we allow people to convince us not to believe what our eyes can clearly see?
I often wonder if some folks start out the game with better fundamentals and over the years fine tune them, while others start out with poorer fundamentals. The harder folks from the latter group work on improvement, the deeper those poor fundamentals become ingrained. By the time we seek help from a professional we’re facing an uphill battle. Not only are we tasked with learning something new, it’s very contrary to what’s already been deeply ingrained.
I don’t know… not looking for excuses just wondering why improvement is harder for some than others.
Luchnia
You will never conquer golf.
Another non-topic related post? In what Tiger has said as well as written there is nothing that supports what you state that he says. I have given you direct quotes from Tiger which you have trashed. Why do you imply he said something he did not? Would golfers believe you before they would Tiger's own words?
Now back to the topic...
I heard myself saying, "Got'cha."
As to Tiger and chipping above, chipping and partial pitches are a different game than iron and driver.
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Exactly correct about chipping. But, important to note, Tiger is on the far right side of the bell curve regarding hand eye coordination, what makes him successful is not going to make the middle of the curve successful.
At least Dr. Kwon understands this and gathers data and not dogma.
A quote from Chapter 5 Pg. 60 of Homer Kelly’s book * The Golfing Machine. * The most comprehensive and detailed instruction book ever written .
“The HANDS are the “Command Post “ for all Feel processing. As the Stroke proceeds , they dictate to the Feet as certainly as they dictate to the Club. No Negative ( Off Course ) Feedback can get to —-or from —- the Clubhead except through the Hands .Regardless of the amount of technical know-how and practice, uneducated Hands can nullify it all and never even be suspected. Monitor all three elements of the Club of the( 1-L ) by way of the Hands - never directly .”
“The HANDS are the “Command Post “ for all Feel processing. As the Stroke proceeds , they dictate to the Feet as certainly as they dictate to the Club. No Negative ( Off Course ) Feedback can get to —-or from —- the Clubhead except through the Hands .Regardless of the amount of technical know-how and practice, uneducated Hands can nullify it all and never even be suspected. Monitor all three elements of the Club of the( 1-L ) by way of the Hands - never directly .”
For me, chipping is even more of a lower body motion than hands. But I digress. I'm concerned about speed and consistency.
Same. Dr. Kwon's utilization of a pressure plate shows the importance of understanding ground force reaction and how to interpret that data
Luchnia
You will never conquer golf.
Yep, and no doubt chipping and putting are hardly comparable to a full swing and all its related parts. There are also many different swings for chipping from all hands/arms to rigid body chipping. They both have been proven to work.
Focusing on the hands is simply not going to fix every swing fault. Only a very poor instructor would apply that nonsense to every golfer and every fault. Of course, a very poor instructor can post crap on the internet with no proof, little science and zero accountability when it helps no one.
I'm just getting to that part in the video - was sleeping then watching the game last night. The second half was more interesting.
Luchnia
You will never conquer golf.
In the last video with the young lady this was more evident than his previous videos because he showed the data for her swing of what was actually happening. I would so enjoy having this for myself, but no way I could fork out the bucks for it. It might be discouraging though to see just how poorly I use, or in reality what I don't use effectively.
Luchnia
You will never conquer golf.
It is more likely to create more swing faults to cover up what is already there. Kind of like what I posted in another thread where I was making an extra strong grip for my driver which was really compensating for a fault in my driver swing which needed fixing.
The one thing that stands out to me about good instructors/teachers is that they have a trained eye to see what each golfer needs and addresses those needs. Those that just throw out some crap such as "the hands control everything" or "you must do this hip move all the time" and don't explain why they are saying that have missed the boat. I might see what they have to say and in some cases play around with it, but put no credibility in their teaching.
You probably just slapped thousands of Pros in the face. Homer Kelly was considered to be way ahead of his time in knowledge and thousands of teaching pros all over the world attended his clinics and taught his methods.
Luchnia
You will never conquer golf.
When thinking about Kwon and Shawn Clements, it appears that Kwon can uncover things quickly while simply viewing swings. He watches someone swing a number of times and within seconds he has his target honed in. In each case I think Kwon nails it perfectly, but I am not sure that the golfers leave there and take that straight to work. I did notice in one video Kwon said you cannot get this in one lesson.
I have watched a lot of SC videos and I think he teaches more on concepts of comparisons. Like clipping the grass, or throwing the club, swinging the swing blade, swinging the hammer, driving the nail, and things like that to compare to more common things that we might be familiar with.
I have watched a lot of SC videos and I think he teaches more on concepts of comparisons. Like clipping the grass, or throwing the club, swinging the swing blade, swinging the hammer, driving the nail, and things like that to compare to more common things that we might be familiar with.
If you don’t agree with my posts maybe you should just ignore them. It makes no difference to me if you enjoy being a poor instructor.
Luchnia
You will never conquer golf.
Pros teach a full functional fundamental swing. Apparently you don't understand Homer Kelley's teachings as he taught hands pass line of sight of the golf ball, the swing plane, axis tilt, full movement in the swing, etc., but I digress as this is the Kwon and SC thread. Alex Sloan whom attended Kelley's first class explains Kelley's thesis pretty well. You can find the video on youtube which is around 40 minutes long. Also Pick up a copy of Kelley's book, The Golfing Machine if you want to know more about his teaching.
I can't remember who the online instructor was, but he used "striking the match" and that worked well with me.
Luchnia
You will never conquer golf.
It is interesting and surprising to me what can often "click" for us. I had the same experience with a video that showed how to target the "velocity" through the golf ball and not waste that before it. I think it was Clay Ballard, but don't recall right now. These are golden nuggets to me and might be found in Dr. Kwon, SC, or a number of videos.
It may have been someone else and not Clay, but I started taking my SwingRite trainer and focusing on that strike/velocity area and my swing became better almost immediately. Up to that point I was doubtful of my ability and questioned was golf even worth it.
The one thing I know is that stuck with me in a big way and made a monumental change in my golf swing especially in overall ball striking. It became a focus area. It is the type of thing that has stuck solid in the back of my mind and when applying it, it works for me.
Gary Player used that line famously as to bunker work. I like to use it in all swings.
I haven't watched all the videos of Dr. Kwon, but on an earlier one, he told the student to (paraphrasing) "pretend there is someone you really dislike standing here" (at followthrough) to get the student to maintain speed through impact.
I think that type of communication is one of many tools a quality instructor will use. Some students can simply be told what to do, others require more. A quality instructor can pick up on what type of student they are dealing with and modify how they teach what's needed.
I'm starting to as well on full swing practice.
Well - you certainly wouldn’t recommend striking a match with your HANDS, would you ?
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