Kwon never sleeps... Also, your head doesn't sway. But other than that, start about 9:20 where he talks about drawing the sword and wrist movement for speed, how the body moves fast at first, then slows down, and club speeds up with wrist motion.
Dr. Kwon youtube channel - before and after with 2 step drills.
I appreciate the desire to get the basics down first. I love Kwon's teachings because in my case I played golf in an unnatural way compared to any sport I have played. I froze over the ball and my muscles were tight. Kwon is helping me play in a manner that has free'd me up and sped up my swing. The results have been great both on the course and mentally. It is becoming an athletic movement.
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Oh no -
OH NO! Did Dr. Kwon illustrate how he uses his HANDS at the very first part of this video, by keeping his right palm facing upward ? Wow- what a novel idea !
Great post. Without getting too much into it, the book I'm listening to suggests we stop using the thinking mind and instead trust the intuitive mind. When I consider all the other sports that I'm decent at, that seems to hold true.
The author of the book asks and answers the question "Can you do something 10,000 times in a row without missing? Of course, you can. In the last several months, have you missed your mouth with your fork? You don't tell yourself, bend your elbow, turn your wrist just so, now open your mouth... careful, don't hit the roof of your mouth... "
Yet, that's the level of swing thoughts that occur when I'm getting ready to hit a golf ball. That has to stop.
I've done enough of Kwon's 2-step drills to feel like the golf swing should be more of an athletic move as you've described. The little bit I've tried has helped what I'm working on. I've only hit a few balls out in the yard, but so far, that feeling of an athletic, flowing move has held up. If I work on it enough, hopefully it will become one continuous movement instead of dissecting it into a series of smaller moves. All those other sports require nuances to perform well. But I'm not thinking about each of one of them individually.
Man, this really hits it on the head. I want to have a solid swing and focus on having fun.
What is the name of the book? I agree totally with what you wrote about the intuitive mind. I bet that kids who get into golf at a young age dont have these issues. Today's my 65th year on the planet. My present to myself is a kettlebell and a rope. And i couldn't be happier.
Zen Golf. I’ve heard other explanations about which parts of the brain are thought-based vs parts that are intuitive that are a little more science-based. But I agree with the concept of thinking while practicing and getting out of our own way when playing.
Desmond, Curious if you have tried Kwon's drill using the Stack system. i was thinking about using an Orange Whip just to see how if it helped.
Just ordered the book. Thank you.
Cool. I hope you get something positive out of it as I have. There’s some stuff that’s a little too much for me, but the majority of the suggestions seem worthy of a serious effort on my part.
I used to be so cynical about the mental aspect of the golf, but after so much of a struggle for even a small amount of improvement I had to consider this as a root cause.
Depending on the program, Stack has you do the second stage drill - the feet together, step forward, but not Stage 3.
Incidentally, had a lesson this morning. We spoke about Dr. Kwon and he said there are about 5 well known people who are like Dr. Kwon in studying the golf swing and speed, including Sasho Mackenzie (Stack System). He said Kwon is good, and although he says that he doesn't teach the golf swing, my instructor said he does cross the line. He takes his college and pro players to Kwon to get data measurements.
We worked on the start of the swing, right side bend, and club path, which was out of whack (too in to out). It seems that the lead side of my body - hips and shoulders don't want to go left unless I really focus on it. We worked on ways to do it without thinking. We spent the last 45 minutes of the 3 hrs on right side bend and the trail shoulder movement and shoulder turn. Also worked on before the club reaches the top, the lead hip is already turning to the left (for a righty).
All that means is that yes, most of us can conduct the Kwon drills and practice the motions but still need golf instructor guidance.
I see Dr. Kwon put up another vid over the weekend but it looks similar to others we've seen.
Over the weekend, I also took a look at Sean Clements and like some of his psycho stuff - the ball is not the target, swing to the target, pretend you are cutting grass with a weedwhacker, make it effortless, and releasing the club.
His downswing is a bit whacky,
so I ignore it. But his grip advice is solid, and his daughter is set up for a draw with her grip and setup, so you must be aware that may not work for you.
So at the range, I did try the weedwhacker imaging, swing to target, and effortless-ness.
This meant a slower tempo backswing, still continuous like Dr. Kwon, and a similar motion. But I also incorporated what my instructor and I worked on to make it more golf swing and not 3 and 2 stage drills. I went through the full continuous body-driven motion on the backswing at my pace - smooth and consistent so I could finish the swing - what fast tempo did was make me hurry and not finish the backswing. So I did a little more wind up in the backswing at my continuous pace and then incorporated the effortless part in Clements swing by relaxing or throwing the arms while moving the lead hip left and I released the club. I was keeping connected -arms to body - and trying to pin that lead arm against my chest, which meant that I had some separation - but that is something to work on.
It only took two hours to finally get there. I was worn out. But it was effortless. The difference? In going back at my continuous pace, I could really move the clubhead faster through the ball when striking.
Oh, there is still more work to do as in can one do it consistently. But if this helps anyone, there ya' go.
Over the weekend, I also took a look at Sean Clements and like some of his psycho stuff - the ball is not the target, swing to the target, pretend you are cutting grass with a weedwhacker, make it effortless, and releasing the club.
His downswing is a bit whacky,
so I ignore it. But his grip advice is solid, and his daughter is set up for a draw with her grip and setup, so you must be aware that may not work for you.So at the range, I did try the weedwhacker imaging, swing to target, and effortless-ness.
This meant a slower tempo backswing, still continuous like Dr. Kwon, and a similar motion. But I also incorporated what my instructor and I worked on to make it more golf swing and not 3 and 2 stage drills. I went through the full continuous body-driven motion on the backswing at my pace - smooth and consistent so I could finish the swing - what fast tempo did was make me hurry and not finish the backswing. So I did a little more wind up in the backswing at my continuous pace and then incorporated the effortless part in Clements swing by relaxing or throwing the arms while moving the lead hip left and I released the club. I was keeping connected -arms to body - and trying to pin that lead arm against my chest, which meant that I had some separation - but that is something to work on.
It only took two hours to finally get there.
I was worn out. But it was effortless. The difference? In going back at my continuous pace, I could really move the clubhead faster through the ball when striking.Oh, there is still more work to do as in can one do it consistently. But if this helps anyone, there ya' go.
You do put in the effort. When you go from Kwon's drills to an actual golf swing what do you do to create a bit of motion on the front foot before you take the club back. Having started my swing in a static position forever I am looking for a trigger or movement to get the party started.I see Dr. Kwon put up another vid over the weekend but it looks similar to others we've seen.
Over the weekend, I also took a look at Sean Clements and like some of his psycho stuff - the ball is not the target, swing to the target, pretend you are cutting grass with a weedwhacker, make it effortless, and releasing the club.
His downswing is a bit whacky,
So at the range, I did try the weedwhacker imaging, swing to target, and effortless-ness.
This meant a slower tempo backswing, still continuous like Dr. Kwon, and a similar motion. But I also incorporated what my instructor and I worked on to make it more golf swing and not 3 and 2 stage drills. I went through the full continuous body-driven motion on the backswing at my pace - smooth and consistent so I could finish the swing - what fast tempo did was make me hurry and not finish the backswing. So I did a little more wind up in the backswing at my continuous pace and then incorporated the effortless part in Clements swing by relaxing or throwing the arms while moving the lead hip left and I released the club. I was keeping connected -arms to body - and trying to pin that lead arm against my chest, which meant that I had some separation - but that is something to work on.
It only took two hours to finally get there.
Oh, there is still more work to do as in can one do it consistently. But if this helps anyone, there ya' go.
Sir- the same trigger or movement is the same trigger you use to pick up a fork ( a lever ) to reach down to your dinner plate to bring food to your mouth. The same that teach out to unlock and open your car door - to comb your hair - to brush your teeth.
Your DOMINANT HANDS which control almost all body movements. Your feet have always obeyed their commands and ALWAYS will ! It is not necessary to think about those puppets and dummies below.
Gotta quit making something so simple - so difficult . These movements are built into your subconscious mind . It is not necessary to think about those !
My instructor and I spent about 10 minutes talking about that on Friday.
He had me stand on my lead foot only and asked me pressure it up and out (more to the left for a right-handed golfer), and then he had me stand on a frictionless wheel and do the same - it's almost counterintuitive. But the up and outward/to left with the lead foot has you spinning your lead foot opening it up on the frictionless wheel. Doing it on the mats or range has you really use ground force to get on to your back foot. It's a subtle move with pressure on the lead foot and then you put a lot of pressure on it as it gets you to the back foot.
So what I attempt is a Kwon-like but a golf swing as the rehearsal swing, and then address the ball, move the feet subtly and then to start the swing, apply (the up and out) pressure to the front foot which puts you on the back foot. You can't be stiff in the upper body to get the club back using your hips. As Kwon says - turn the hips and shoulders going back.
So I am subtly amending the Kwon approach for a golf swing, the lead shoulder points down a little more during the backswing, and before impact, I allow right side bend on normal shots (not pitches or chips around the green for which I stay taller).
What I forget to do until about an hour into the swing, is that push off the front foot right before impact where you kind of go backwards - Kwon does it, my instructor tells me to do it. You get more speed.
Still working on club path.
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Luchnia
You will never conquer golf.
- Thread starter
- #116
I was watching the last couple of Kwon videos and noticed he was very much against using the hands and arms to control the swing. Fascinating how good the swing looks after a little as one hour. His last student is a 73 year old guy and his swing came together toward the end of the lesson.
Another thing that stands out about Kwon's teaching is that he really caters to what the individual needs, but he implements his phases of drills to correct poor lower body movement. So far almost every person that has come to Kwon has been way too armsy/handsy and needed to start making the swing work from the lower body to become a consistent work.
Really some great teaching and I am enjoying watching his methods and starting to learn how to apply it better.
Another thing that stands out about Kwon's teaching is that he really caters to what the individual needs, but he implements his phases of drills to correct poor lower body movement. So far almost every person that has come to Kwon has been way too armsy/handsy and needed to start making the swing work from the lower body to become a consistent work.
Really some great teaching and I am enjoying watching his methods and starting to learn how to apply it better.
Luchnia
You will never conquer golf.
- Thread starter
- #117
Kwon gets into that with each golfer. Some he has make a small movement. He says it is critical[problem to not keep the tempo/rhythm and trigger properly. Every time one of them started the swing too static he would get them to effect a trigger of some type. That is something I am working on as I can see how I get too rigid and not keep the trigger so the swing is the same.
I explained what my instructor and I did on Friday above, which I thought was practical and Kwon-like but maybe not for everyone. He's only been telling me to do that for 2 yrs. lol. We went into it in detail. He did say it was a tough concept for students - starting the swing.
Kwon does something similar but I don't think a golfer is going to do that up and down movement at address, or whoosh, whooooooooooosh, and whoosh.
Kwon is great at getting us into the body driven swing - which I've been trying to do without knowing it - for a few years - it's just that Kwon explains it so well.
But I still need to make subtle changes to the Kwon guidance to take it to the golf course. Each one of us has a tempo we can handle. We must find our own - I will never be quick and I accept that but the swing is continuous and smooth with more intensity on the downswing.
But starting the swing - take a stage 2 or 3 rehearsal swing, setup, move feet subtly, I push all of my breath out, and then push out (to the left for a righty) and up aggressively on that front foot to move it back without people really noticing the first move.
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OMG! It’s like Kwons seen my swing. I’m stiff like a board.
Thank you! I’m trying to figure out the pressure up and out part but got the gist of it.
With your left foot (for a righty) - go more forward and to the left but it is more to the left than up.
While you are setting up to your address position, keep on subtly moving to maintain athleticism. Whether you are over a putt or a drive, keep subtly moving with the feet.
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Luchnia
You will never conquer golf.
- Thread starter
- #122
Here Kwon shows were someone is pulling down on the club instead of allowing the arms to go through - stuck elbow. I like Kwon's "let it goooooo.." Her finished swing is a nice release at 110 mph. I have seen golfers do this exact same thing with elbow jammed up into the body trying to correct a bad club path.
Thank you so much.
What's funny is that I was noticing that yesterday. I had viewed Sean Clements vids on Friday night where he likes that right elbow leading on the downswing, which is great.
For years, I've had a flying elbow that gets stuck as in Kwon's video and he's correct, it screws up everything.
People say, "Oh, you can have a flying elbow." BUT I cannot. It makes golf even more difficult. Maybe you can get away with it like Jack if you want to play a fade all the time.Towards the end of yesterday's range session, I was pulling that elbow in on the backswing so I could easily slide it along the body - big difference. Yuge.
Good vid.
More about flying elbow - I think for me it starts flying because my right hand loosens up off the grip going back. Keeping the meat of the right hand tight to the grip should help, but to be sure it stays on the grip I want to make that pulling in of the right elbow going back a habit. When I say "pulling in," I mean the right elbow is pointing in front of my right side at the top and then keeping it shallow on the downswing instead of jerking it against your side which makes your swing steeper. I don't want that - I want it shallow and in front with the elbow leading.
Like Dr. Kwon says, the right elbow pointing and staying in front will improve your club path, which has been an issue because that elbow in the past has gotten stuck and club goes right when you want it to go left with your hand path.
Like Dr. Kwon says, the right elbow pointing and staying in front will improve your club path, which has been an issue because that elbow in the past has gotten stuck and club goes right when you want it to go left with your hand path.