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Driver vs Mini Driver

SuperStroke
rbarthle17 said:
JB,

You and others talk about cutting down a shaft like it's this super simple easy thing that any golfer can and should be doing. If that's so, then how come I never hear fitters talking about doing that? All I hear is try a different stiffness of shaft, or a different club. Never modifying the shaft length of the club.

I believe that for 99% of all golfers, this is not something that they could, or likely would, want to DIY. They would want it done for them. Choking up on a driver is one thing, but I think some here are making the idea of cutting down a shaft something far easier to do than most people would have time or patience for as a DIY thing.
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Nobody said anything about DIY (that would be up to the user). Although I would say if you never hear fitters discuss length, you need to quickly find another fitter. It is one of the basic fundementals in ANY fitting.
 
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JB said:
Nobody said anything about DIY (that would be up to the user). Although I would say if you never hear fitters discuss length, you need to quickly find another fitter. It is one of the basic fundementals in ANY fitting.
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When i have been fit lenght of shaft is one of the first things they look at
 
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JB said:
Nobody said anything about DIY (that would be up to the user). Although I would say if you never hear fitters discuss length, you need to quickly find another fitter. It is one of the basic fundementals in ANY fitting.
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That's good to know. Never heard anyone other than on here talk about it. Hence my stance on its ease of doing.
 
JB said:
Nobody said anything about DIY (that would be up to the user). Although I would say if you never hear fitters discuss length, you need to quickly find another fitter. It is one of the basic fundementals in ANY fitting.
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Sooooo true. When I got fitted my fitter advised me to play at 45" with the driver. he said that at 44.5 I was hitting too close to the heel and at 45.5 I was hitting towards the toe 3/10 times. I am not the longest hitter but when I hit it on the screws I can get out to 270 with roll out. After I got fitted I will never EVER buy a golf club off the rack again. My fitter went through about 10 different heads and at least 20 shafts. I was sore afterwards. And even after I got fitted he was able to work with my budget. Ended up with a brand new R1 black head and a new (old) NV 65s shaft for much less than I expected to pay. All for about 80 bucks that went towards the club cost.
 
I was fit for a Titleist 913 D3 9.3 driver last year with a stock stiff Diamana D+ and a Proforce Axivcore green stiff and hit it all over the face due to the 45" length , I went to a TM 12* mini ( reg flex ) and am killing it . I am actually wearing the center of the club face out of it as I hit it so well . I play a lot of golf with Bulldog and can keep up with his drives with my mini . I actually cut the Axivcore to 43&1/2" and still can not hit the Titleist 913 driver further then my mini .
I hit the smaller headed clubs better then a big headed club as I like the looks of a smaller head and feel I can swing more aggressively . Plus the TM mini has a great overall feel to it in my hands . I say go with what you feel the most confident with .
 
I have not. Bigger is better for me.
 
JB said:
But that goes back to the question. If it is the shaft that is giving you better performance, why not use a larger club head and cut the shaft down if this is only for a tee game.

In your case you "smoked" one from the deck, so it is not exactly just a driver replacement for you compared to most.
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Answering your first question, not everybody likes the bigger heads. Bigger does not always equal Better. The face of my mini does not lie, I hit that thing in the middle more than I ever did a big headed driver. I know not everyone is the same, I am just speaking for myself. The last time I tried out a full size driver was the SLDR in Indy. It felt ungainly to me. It was too big. Couldn't control it. Grabbed a mini to compare, was like night and day difference.

I am just glad the option is out there for us that prefer the smaller head.
 
rbarthle17 said:
Answering your first question, not everybody likes the bigger heads. Bigger does not always equal Better. The face of my mini does not lie, I hit that thing in the middle more than I ever did a big headed driver. I know not everyone is the same, I am just speaking for myself. The last time I tried out a full size driver was the SLDR in Indy. It felt ungainly to me. It was too big. Couldn't control it. Grabbed a mini to compare, was like night and day difference.

I am just glad the option is out there for us that prefer the smaller head.
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I said from the very beginning that personal preference would play more a role here than most would want to admit actually. But like I have said over and over, you are debating two different things. I have never said take a SLDR and the TM Mini and see which one is more accurate (both lack forgiveness laterally actually). You are looking no different than taking a PW and a 5 iron when seeing it like that.

What I said was that if you took the driver with the same length shaft as the Mini, you would be hitting the center the same amount and the misses would find more forgiveness due to sheer mass. This based strictly on those that are finding more accuracy with a shorter shaft.

Im not trying to tell someone what to play or what they are seeing, but you are not comparing apples to apples, but rather apples to oranges. TM is just choosing to call it an apple.
 
Driver vs Mini Driver

I don't think it's just shaft length that you have to account for. The head on the mini is smaller and therefore lighter than an oversized head would be, right? Simple physics states that something smaller and lighter would be easier to control. So I wonder if you only take one part of that whether a shorter but heavier club would give the same results?

You're right that more head size equals more room for error.
 
rbarthle17 said:
I don't think it's just shaft length that you have to account for. The head on the mini is smaller and therefore lighter than an oversized head would be, right? Simple physics states that something smaller and lighter would be easier to control. So I wonder if you only take one part of that whether a shorter but heavier club would give the same results?

You're right that more head size equals more room for error.
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Actually the driver head is the lightest club head in your bag. I also think your physics about lighter equal more control is off as well, you can't control something you can't feel.
 
rbarthle17 said:
I don't think it's just shaft length that you have to account for. The head on the mini is smaller and therefore lighter than an oversized head would be, right? Simple physics states that something smaller and lighter would be easier to control. So I wonder if you only take one part of that whether a shorter but heavier club would give the same results?

You're right that more head size equals more room for error.
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Actually this is not completely accurate.
 
I tried going the mini driver/strong 3 wood route with the 2 deep and last year's version and not carrying a driver. It was a fun experiment but at the end of it I found im better off with the driver. While some misses aren't as penal with the woods for my courses I'm better off with the driver. But if I played on very tight courses I would still consider leaving the driver in the car but that plays more into course management. I am going to cut a driver down to 43.5 and give that a shot like many have suggested.
 
If full-sized driver heads with shorter shafts are so much better, why aren't the manufacturers offering them as stock options to the public? If this is really the better way for the best combination of consistency and length, why does that need to be a custom request by the golfer to get it? It would seem to me the manufacturers are missing something big here no?
 
Got a shaft from niteowl this morning but I will cut down and put into the bio cell plus driver after the Morgan cup.

After this morning's round I'm really looking forward to trying this, I think it will be a really good fit for an off the tee club when driver is not needed.
 
rbarthle17 said:
If full-sized driver heads with shorter shafts are so much better, why aren't the manufacturers offering them as stock options to the public? If this is really the better way for the best combination of consistency and length, why does that need to be a custom request by the golfer to get it? It would seem to me the manufacturers are missing something big here no?
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Because when most golfers have a driver in their hands, they want maximum distance. A shorter shaft will not give you maximum distance.
 
rbarthle17 said:
If full-sized driver heads with shorter shafts are so much better, why aren't the manufacturers offering them as stock options to the public? If this is really the better way for the best combination of consistency and length, why does that need to be a custom request by the golfer to get it? It would seem to me the manufacturers are missing something big here no?
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I think you are missing the point I was making.
A longer shaft equals more distance all other things being equal. There is no iffs or buts about it, its pretty much fact.
To say that manufacturers dont offer it is just not true. They absolutely offer it and each of them recommends getting a fitting because there is science involved with making sure length is great for a specific golfer.

But its a whole lot easier to take off length than to add length. Start long and fit to person. I personally play mine at 45" and have been fit for that 3 straight years. Add to that a driver is being sold and used for maximum distance. As heads grew larger to 460cc and had so much forgiveness across the face, it was very easy to lengthen the shaft and still get great results.

The entire thing was not driver longer than mini, because outside of fitting, there is no question its longer. The entire thing was based on the mini "driver" being talked about as more accurate and the reason for that is the shorter shaft.
 
Wow what a debate I started
 
I think the obvious is being overlooked when discussing the evolution of the driver. While I am sure every company wants to have the longest distance driver I think their main goal is to fit the most golfers with their stock offerings. The reason golf clubs have gotten longer (shaft length wise) is component parts have gotten lighter and to keep the swing weight at traditional values the club shafts must be longer. Pure and simple. The companies followed the path of least resistance.
 
JB said:
No debate at all brother. We always want to make sure that people have accurate information.
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It's been interesting to follow and learn. Hoping to get to an event you are at next year man
 
I haven't made the switch, but I have added a mini driver to my bag in addition to carrying a driver. For driver I put in a shorter 3w shaft and it has been amazing the control I have with it now vs using a longer shaft, with not much distance loss. I attribute the lack of distance loss to being more confident being able to square the face and hit the center of club face now which yields better results over the longer shaft and lack of center face contact. With the mini I use it on shorter par 4s where I want to shape a shot as it is much easier to shape a shot with the mini over a driver or just need that little bit more of an accurate tee shot. I have used the mini off the deck but rarely, used it once yesterday on a par 5 for the second shot as we were dead into the wind and wanted as much distance as possible for the second shot, pulled it off beautifully. I find off the deck isn't much more difficult over a traditional wood, just a tad more focus on the shot. I find I do lose a little bit of accuracy with the mini off the deck vs a traditional wood though.
 
I've made the switch to a 14 degree SLDR-S mini driver about 2 months ago (although I was lucky enough to recently win an SLDR-S full-size driver from THP that will definitely be used). I went from a TM R11S set to about 13.5 degrees. When my swing was "on" it went great. The mini driver, due to its shorter shaft, is much more accurate and consistent for me, and not too much shorter.
 
So you are saying the 12° mini is or is not a driver? I apologize for being dense, now I'm lost as to what the intended point is.

If it is classified as a driver, and I and others have taken a liking to it, then why wouldn't they take a next step and make this with the full size head and the mini shaft? Or am I truly in the minority that prefers this club off the tee to a full size driver?

I get that longer shaft = longer distance. But it also leads to less accuracy. Is the general public not being properly educated that distance is not the only thing that matters? Or not even the most important thing? Or do they not care?
 
Without hitting both clubs with the same length shaft, its hard to do a comparison in accuracy. Comparing apples to oranges.
People have preferences all the time in size. That wont change and really has nothing to do with performance. If someone likes small, all the power to them. It does not mean a club that is less forgiving wont work for them. It could work great.
 
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