Drivers - Biggest and Best - Your thoughts?

[Rvick82]

I am in the market to get a driver in the next few months. I don't have one in the bag right now since I hit my 3 wood further than my current driver. One of the articles in the newest scorgolf newsletter got my attention. I read this article and it really got me thinking. I really think I feel the same way. As cool as it is to have the newest and best I really don't think there is that much "more" in the newest drivers. Although, if I had an unlimited budget, I'd definitely have the newest and best every year. However, it's not my driving distance that will improve my game, but much of the marketing today says otherwise. My next $400 golf purchase will be new wedges as that will help improve my game much more than hitting the ball further. Any thoughts?

Below is a link to the article but I will copy and paste it in the forum as well. Just wanted to give credit to the author for his work.

http://blog.scorgolf.com/2012/02/21/smoke-mirrors-of-drivers/?utm_source=SCORzone&utm_campaign=a04c9c03aa-2012_01_24_SCORzone&utm_medium=email

Article from link:

"OK, you all know that I’m “the wedge guy”, and that I’m a firm believer that your route to lower scores is going to be at the short end of the set rather than from the tee. But this industry is driven by the noise around drivers and big companies’ endless promises of hitting the ball further. I received an email the other day from Pat in Yorktown, VA, a reader who is trying to make sense of the claims by the driver makers. It is so good, that I’m going to re-print it here:

Recently, driver technology has been working on generating more clubhead speed to get more distance by improving aerodynamics to lighter clubs to shaft length, etc. If we look at the simple physics formula: F=ma (Force = mass times acceleration), by increasing clubhead speed of a standard driver head mass, I can see how distance can be increased. But if we can increase our clubhead speed by 3-4 mph with a mass that may be 25 grams lighter, I can’t see how the math works out to increase the force we put on the ball to get more distance. Besides that, swingweight would change and that can affect the rhythm, tempo, and timing to square the clubhead and strike the ball solidly and accurately. I hope you can elaborate on this topic before I run out and buy the latest and greatest driver with all the promises and marketing hype. Thanks.

Well, Pat, I think you nailed it pretty well here. If we make the driver lighter so you can swing it faster, we’ve also reduced the mass with which you are making impact, so what’s the gain? For weekend and other regular-guy golfers, I’m betting it’s not much. The driver market has been driven by technology for decades now, and they have all pretty much pushed the envelope as far as the USGA will allow. But they surely cannot admit that, can they? They have drivers to sell.

In my opinion, unless your current driver is over 5-6 years old, there’s not going to be much distance improvement available to you with the newest whiz-bang model. In fact, I’ll bet that each and every one of you hits drives with some frequency that are super-long, and that’s because every once in a while you get all the hitches and idiosyncrasies of your swing just right and make dead solid perfect impact. And it’s no secret that even with the most advanced drivers in the market today, a miss by ½” will cost you 7-9% of optimum distance. And a miss by ¾” will increase that loss to 12-15%.

But just for fun, you should see what 15 more yards would really do for your scores . . . if that was even “for sale” out there in the marketplace. The next time you play a recreational round, after each drive, pick up your ball and walk it 15 yards further down the line it was traveling when it came to rest. Whether it was headed straight down the fairway, or towards the OB stakes, water or bunker . . . 15 more yards, OK?

My bet is that it would not change your scores even one stroke for the better. But I’d sure like to hear what you guys find out with this little experiment.

Any takers?"

 

[Jaybanks9]

Good points you have. My thing with the 15 yard challenge is this. Wouldn't you drive on a different line for dog legs if you were expecting to be 15 yards farther? Meaning if I tried your challenge I might hit my exact line, but then have to walk it into the rough or drop it in a hazard that wouldn't have been an issue if I was expecting 15 more yards and didn't aim there. On a straight hole though id love 15 yards to have a club or two clubs less into the green. I agree though that this years driver will not give me 15 yards over last years model.

 

[Golf 'N Gator]

I'll take accuracy over distance. My brother in law outdrives me on every hole and I beat him score wise almost daily. Distance is great if you can still maintain control, but many can't.

In your first line you say no driver in your bag because you hit your 3 wood further. This was once me as well, but I finally made the connection through a proper fitting. I hope you are able to get that worked out as well. There is a reason for that.

 

[SW]

We talking 15 more straight yards or 15 more yards of hook or slice? In reality the side to side won't be that much greater than the an older driver, heck it may be less because of advances in clubhead design. The distance traveled will be an overall 15 more yards, not exclusively tacked on to the end.

I think drivers have came a long way in the past few years, especially with ability to tweak settings to match your ideal set-up. So yeah, give me 15 more yards, then I can take a 8 or 9 into tricky green vs a 7 iron.

 

[KevvDogg]

its kind of up or down, I know for myself more distance could mean settign me up in between clubs, but for my experience, the more distance I have it makes for an easier second shot and I usually make the green in 2 if I have more distance off the tee, of course if I didnlt hit into trees or OB. but you can have mixed feelings for this and of course accuracy is more important, but with good accuracy and you add mor edistance to that, then like I said your GIR will go up and more chances for birdie putts, atleast that is the way it works for me.

 

[mrvandelay]

... give me 15 more yards, then I can take a 8 or 9 into tricky green vs a 7 iron.

I agree with this. Distance doesn't really improve your scores - but being able to hit an 8 or 9 iron into a green instead of a 6 or 7 may result in a better GIR% or reduce putts since you might be closer to the pin.

I bought my R11s for control more than distance. I struggle closing the face, the weights help. Not to mention I can strengthen the loft as I need and can move the weights around as I improve (rather than buying another $400 club).

 

[JF]

If you hit every green, you don't need to be able to chip! Lay up to 150 and knock it on...

I think 15 yards will definitely take at least a stroke off. If I'm out 220, I might hit the green one in ten times. If I'm out 205, I'll hit it four out of ten times. Saving strokes?

 

[Rusty]

There is no sense in quibbling over whether those extra 15 yards would be in the fairway or not. Generally, your errant shots are magnified with distance, so I think that's a fair point, but what he's really saying is that 15 extra yards will not materially impact your score.

I think it kinda depends on where you are in your game. A lot of high handicappers are losing a 5 - 10 strokes per round in their short game, and would see immediate benefit in just being able to hit wedge shots closer to the hole. That's why you see some teaching pros guaranteeing they can take 5 strokes off your game within 30 days. Conversely, if you top your 6 iron from 155, it probably wouldn't make much difference in your score if you topped your 8 iron from 140 instead.

Personally, I am pretty happy with my game from 150 and in. Of course there is room for improvement, but I think its more in my iron play than my short game. My last round I only hit 8 greens, but I got up and down 7/10 tries. I don't think I can improve on 70% saves. OTOH, If there were a couple holes where I was hitting a shorter iron into the green, my GIRs might have gone up, and I might have hit more birdies.

 

[GrantD]

I think I might just try this for the fun of it. Can I just pretend I am Bubba and move it 50 yds closer?

 

[golf4life]

Well, I think his whole F=mA arguement is very flawed to start with. I don't care how much force I'm generating when I swing a club, I care how far I hit the golf ball. Also, If you want to measure efficiency of transferring speed from the club to the ball, you look at smash factor. And personally, I've created as high (or higher) smash factors with the new light drivers, than my older, heavier drivers. So please, throw the F=mA equation out the window when you are looking at generating ball speed.

The author is accurate though, that if you hit it 15 yards further, you can hit it 15 yards more off line. But also, if you can generate that much more ball speed with a newer driver, you are free to use a shorter shaft or a more controlled swing to hit a more controlled, accurate drive that goes the same distance as one hit swinging out of your shoes with your old technology.

And personally, I'm seeing improvements in driver performance in this year's models over drivers that came out just LAST YEAR, let alone 6 years ago. I'm sorry, but Mr. Wedge guy seems to have a biased agenda here.

 

[Schweitzer_07]

Really interesting thoughts in here. I actually tee'd off with my 4 wood on the majority of the holes on Monday. It honestly had little impact on my scores being farther back in the fairway. My irons are the most inconsistent part of my game, and unfortunately right now I am just as inaccurate with a wedge as I am with an 6/7/8/9 iron. I can see where 15 yards can help or hurt one's game, but I think much of that depends on how far you can hit a lesser club (3 wood, hybrid, long iron, etc) and the length of the course/holes you are playing on.

 

[Divebell]

I am with the others that agree that 15 yards would probably help your game. I think it would/has helped mine. If you have a shorter club into the greens, then you are more than likely to hit the ball on the green more often, thereby lowering your scores. I just switched drivers last week and gained 15-20 yards on average. Hitting a shorter club into the greens has helped me. Just my two cents...

 

[Danilo]

If you hit every green, you don't need to be able to chip! Lay up to 150 and knock it on...

I think 15 yards will definitely take at least a stroke off. If I'm out 220, I might hit the green one in ten times. If I'm out 205, I'll hit it four out of ten times. Saving strokes?

I don't think a lot of recreational golfers are even that accurate from 200+.
The extra 15 yards would be nice, but like others have said 15 yards down the fairway is a good thing, 15 yards into the woods is not. I think it would be more useful on a long par 4 where you can play a driver then a short lay-up onto the green instead of a par 5 where you would play driver and then a long iron shot onto the green, where there would be quite a bit of missing going on, leading to another shot to try to get on, but from a possible green side trap or the rough.

 

[Rvick82]

I'm sorry, but Mr. Wedge guy seems to have a biased agenda here.

Oh yeah, I agree 100%. Although, I agree with his overall point that 15 yards more on my driver doesn't mean anything if I can't get up and down or I can't hit more GIR, etc. With my game as it is now, I waste more strokes on my short game (inside 100 yards). I will admit that if I had a great short game and very accurate iron game my game would improve a little with the increased distance. My main point is that 15 yards off the tee box doesn't impact a score near as much as a good short game.

I am really enjoying reading all the thoughts though - great stuff!

 

[Golf 'N Gator]

Oh yeah, I agree 100%. Although, I agree with his overall point that 15 yards more on my driver doesn't mean anything if I can't get up and down or I can't hit more GIR, etc. With my game as it is now, I waste more strokes on my short game (inside 100 yards). I will admit that if I had a great short game and very accurate iron game my game would improve a little with the increased distance. My main point is that 15 yards off the tee box doesn't impact a score near as much as a good short game.

I am really enjoying reading all the thoughts though - great stuff!

I agree. Todays marketing has everyone chasing distance. That sells drivers. The truth is, there are millions of players worldwide that can buy a new driver every six weeks and never hit the ball anywhere near the distance of the 200 best world class players. Never going to happen, yet marketing says it is possible. Over all, try to be more accurate and worry less about distance.

I have a decent game and I'm one of the shorter hitters at my course for my age, and I outscore most of the guys in my age group day in day out and I'm always first to hit from the fairway. 15 more driver yards would be ok, but I'm not chasing it either. Been there, done that.

 

[superhawk]

I would LOVE to get a new driver....and hope to by the end of the year. But I'm FAR more interested in keeping it on the fairway than anything else. With my current driver I'm hitting 240 right down the middle 85% of the time.

My biggest issues are the second and third shots.

 

[Kobey]

O.K., I am officially confuddled now. I see that most people don't feel that an extra 15 yards with a driver is that important, but people are drooling over the RBZ irons because of added distance. What am I missing here?

 

[Adam0304]

O.K., I am officially confuddled now. I see that most people don't feel that an extra 15 yards with a driver is that important, but people are drooling over the RBZ irons because of added distance. What am I missing here?

Irons are the scoring clubs. Added distance can mean and 8 iron instead of 6 iron based on the lofts of the irons. Driver on the other hand (IMO) should focus on finding fairways so that we can use our scoring clubs from the fairway.

I guess I look at the driver as a point guard who sets up the rest of my bag to score. Therefore distance < accuracy.


Tap before talk.

 

[Kobey]

Irons are the scoring clubs. Added distance can mean and 8 iron instead of 6 iron based on the lofts of the irons. Driver on the other hand (IMO) should focus on finding fairways so that we can use our scoring clubs from the fairway.

I guess I look at the driver as a point guard who sets up the rest of my bag to score. Therefore distance < accuracy.


Tap before talk.

Still not quite getting it. Let's say a new set of irons could give me 15 yards more than my old ones. I would be using a club shorter than normal on my second shot. Now if instead I bought a driver that gave me 15 more yards, wouldn't it also cause my second shot to be one club shorter?

 

[#Cookie]

Still not quite getting it. Let's say a new set of irons could give me 15 yards more than my old ones. I would be using a club shorter than normal on my second shot. Now if instead I bought a driver that gave me 15 more yards, wouldn't it also cause my second shot to be one club shorter?

Yes, it would. But I *think* the problem is that many people gain yardage but at the cost of accuracy. If you can gain 15 yards and still keep your percentages of FW hit, then it is a no brainer IMO.

 

[Kobey]

Yes, it would. But I *think* the problem is that many people gain yardage but at the cost of accuracy. If you can gain 15 yards and still keep your percentages of FW hit, then it is a no brainer IMO.

O.K., thanks, that explains it. Now I need to find a putter that goes one foot longer than my old one.

 

[Mckinlay14]

I beleive that you first of all have to be able to hit the fairway! From there you can fit your clubs and tune them for distance. Getting fit is by far the most important part when looking at a new driver as it will not preform to what potential it has built into it. You do not sacrifice accuracy for distance!

 

[Super Tuna]

So please, throw the F=mA equation out the window when you are looking at generating ball speed.

I'm with you on most of your posts but throw out the law of physics that determines your distance? Neigh, I think not good sir.

The difference here is that A is the equation is not in proportional lockstep with M. Thus with a lower weight you can increase your accereration in a higher ratio then one is removing mass from the striking object. Further more, if lighter lets one hit the center of the face more frequently there is no degredation on A where it is independant of M thus allowing more force to be imparted on the ball.

Besides, I already have fitted clubs for 150 and in that work so a more accurate driver is the best place to help out.

 

[golf4life]

I'm with you on most of your posts but throw out the law of physics that determines your distance? Neigh, I think not good sir.

The difference here is that A is the equation is not in proportional lockstep with M. Thus with a lower weight you can increase your accereration in a higher ratio then one is removing mass from the striking object. Further more, if lighter lets one hit the center of the face more frequently there is no degredation on A where it is independant of M thus allowing more force to be imparted on the ball.

Besides, I already have fitted clubs for 150 and in that work so a more accurate driver is the best place to help out.

OH, I know physics are integral to golf, and I was a little dramatic in that proclamation, but the argument presented in the article is very misleading. Because of the limit of COR already established for driver performance, extra mass in the driver head does not effect transfer of energy to the ball in any significant way. Granted, on off center hits, more mass will aid in helping the clubhead maintain stability and thus transfer energy to the ball. But on center contact, as you stated, the mass does not appreciably affect the ball speed with more mass.

BUT the real way to look at F=mA for driver distance is this: Force is a constant (golfer's technique and strength), and the time (well, really, the space) to accelerate is also constant, so the only way to generate more speed is to increase acceleration. The best way to increase acceleration is then to remove mass (or to get golf lessons). a= F/m

So for me, for instance, I can swing the new light drivers about 5 mph faster than my current driver. But despite the 30 or more grams of weight I'm "losing", my smash factor remains the same. Thus, the author stating that removing mass doesn't help you hit the ball further is, at least in my experience false.

 

[Rvick82]

Wow guys that's way above my head! I just want to hit the ball straight where I'm aiming. Lol! Seriously though, pretty interesting stuff.

I wasn't trying to "open a can of worms" with this. Just wanted to see what everyones reaction to the article would be like and if people agreed or not.

Im in the market for a driver soon and have hit a bunch lately. I love all the new ones esp the R11S, Razr fit, rbz, and the Titleist. But I just can't see myself paying 300-400 for a club. Maybe I'm cheap - well I know I am. Lol! But I just don't see where the performance is worth the extra money from last years or two years ago models. I mean I can hook a ball into the woods with the R9 just as easily as I can with the R11S! Lol! All kidding aside, I do love the new drivers I just don't see where they are worth the money for me to spend on them - especially with my game right now. I know I could start paying close to the single digits once I get my short game down.