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Early morning golf...the right time to bring beginners out?

The lesson should've taken place on the driving range prior to the round if the circumstances were favorable.

Our course is busiest in the morning, from 6am to 11am. 11am to 2pm is the least busiest. Twilight, although not as busy as the morning, starts at 2pm till whenever the last player(s) are done, or dark. It's the second busiest time to golf, except on high triple digits heat days. I usually play after 2pm to save a few bucks on the green fees.

Beginners are probably better off playing during the least busiest times, if for no other reason than to save themselves from feeling rushed, and the grief that might accompany it. Golf need new players regardless of their talent level.

Me personally, I don't care who plays, or when they play. They paid their fees for a round of golf the same as me. Who am I to feel any different.

As for the slow play aspect, I'm no more a fan of it than any other faster player(s). I just don't worry that much about it. It is what it is. I don't think it will ever go away, unless wholesale changes are made in the way the current game is played.

Steven Wright took a class in "speed waiting". I might look into that. Might help with slow play.......lol
 
No, Early times are not for beginners. I always ask where are the starters?
I am not super good but can move along but there is nothing more painful than getting a early tee time only to see the round turn into a 5 hour round slugfest because someone who is new is getting a playing lesson in front of you.
 
The notion that beginners should somehow avoid certain times in deference to cranky “seasoned” golfers is absurd. All that matters is pace, not skill level. There are plenty of experienced golfers that are slower than snot, and don’t care whatsoever how bad they backup a course. That alone is a bigger problem than beginners IMO.

There is never a good time to be in front of someone in a hurry who thinks they are more entitled to be there than you are. My best memories are playing weekend mornings in elementary school with my Dad growing up. You wouldn’t believe some of the dirty looks I’d get from folks at 8-830 on a Saturday morning... and then I’d step up on the first tee with all my nine years of age and hit a better tee shot than most of the groups could muster between the four of them.

being clear and consistent and enforcing expected pace of play is the right answer.
 
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JB said:
It is a really tough line to stand on. On one hand, they are playing on a Thursday rather than a Saturday or Sunday, on the other hand yeah it's tough to play behind.

I am not in the camp that believes new golfers need to be relegated to bad courses or cheap courses or times that may not work for their schedule. Yet I am in the camp that pace of play is crucial to the sport growth long term.
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I agree. But pace is pace. I had a new golfer (first round on a real course, but had practiced all summer). He shot in the 90’s, I don’t know his exact score but a pretty darn good first round at 6600/130. He was slow and I was constantly pushing him to pick it up.

At a certain point he told me to shut it and let him play. Oh no. We played 18 in about 4 hours as a 2-some. SLOW by my standards but acceptable. But we had a 4 some behind us that kept pace and I kept pointing that out. They never pushed us, but they were there. No one in front.

After round lesson, hit the fracking ball. Just hit.
 
Don't think that was handled very well. If they are going to hold up others for "training" then they should let others go through.

The other day I was walking a round at my local course and it had quite a number of golfers so I was walking across the course and noticed 5 guys in 3 carts at a tee box. I hid behind a tree while the 5 of them tee'd off. Wow...it was clear they were either rank beginners, or the whole lot of them seriously struggled at the tee box.

They each hit at least 2 to 3 balls a piece and sprayed balls everywhere in the trees. After they were done I only saw 2 balls make the fairway! I mentally shrugged hoping no one was behind them. Once they were done and I was out of danger, I walked on over to the hole I was going to play to finish my round.
 
I'm relatively new, having returned to golf after a 30-year layoff. I'm finally at a point where I can hold my own. I would love to play an early morning round but I took it upon myself to leave those times for people with a bit more experience than me. I make it a point to play "ready golf", even if I'm playing by myself. I've found that I can usually get a tee time after 1 pm and play by myself, keeping my eye on those behind me. I have a member of my regular foursome that feels that he is the designated "Pro" and wants to give everyone "a few pointers", causing play to be delayed. Oddly enough, he's the one that gets most upset if we have to wait on foursomes ahead of us. Sometimes you can't win, lol.
 
OldandStiff said:
This is where I'm struggling. Where are you supposed to get someone off to a good start? After they start? I mean, if their time rolled past or into the next tee time that's one thing, but I'd definitely rather someone get sorted out on a couple things on the first than fight them the whole round. That's gotta be faster. And it sounds like it mostly worked for him/them.

I'm with most others saying weekday morning is better than weekend, probably could have let the group through sooner, etc. There's no great general answer or time that's right though. Depends on the course and player and beginner imo.

Honestly, some of those early guys are the worst to deal with on any change or change of pace thing, so I think it's probably good for them to have to be around it. The ones that are out there to break a speed record to start their day can be a crabby bunch and part of the problem.
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I’d guess they were on the first tee (not hole) for 10 minutes before the starter finally walked up and said something. And that was with groups all lined up behind them watching/waiting. Again, they ended up doing fine, just was a bad start and a worrying one as we feared we’d be in for a 5 hr round of waiting all day.
 
I brought some new people out for my normal tee time of 7:30am on a Saturday. I definitely made a mistake and felt bad for slowing the following group up.
Next time I will make sure it is later so the round is slower
 
Lions81 said:
I’d guess they were on the first tee (not hole) for 10 minutes before the starter finally walked up and said something. And that was with groups all lined up behind them watching/waiting. Again, they ended up doing fine, just was a bad start and a worrying one as we feared we’d be in for a 5 hr round of waiting all day.
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Yeeeahh... that should be done differently. Lol. I can appreciate the growing feelings of concern there.

I'd take the fact that they didn't have to be instructed to move faster again the rest of the round as a good sign though. I like that. I'm sure the course personnel thought they'd have to deal with them all day too.
 
I'm not one who gets upset at other peoples pace of play - I just enjoy the fact that I get to be out on the golf course. That said, I don't want to hold anyone up myself so will keep tabs on any groups behind and keep pace. And I do get a little annoyed when it's clear someone is brand new and getting a lesson on the first tee. That should have been done on the driving range beforehand.

Now, if they let groups play through I'm completely okay with fair access to tee times. We all had to start somewhere.

Interestingly enough, I'd say that the best time for a beginner to be out on the course around here is during the morning of a weekday.
 
Oh that's such a tough situation. On one hand, a tee time is open to anyone who is capable of making the booking so you can't really "block off" a section of times for experienced golfers. On the other hand, the first few groups of the day are responsible for setting the pace of play for the day. Actually, as I typed those two sentences it hit me that the golfer who was giving the lesson is the one at fault - chances are they have played the course before and know this. They didn't do the beginner any favours by booking them in that early; if anything they made it more uncomfortable of a situation than it needed to be. They should know that there will be other regular golfers who play early for a reason standing behind the tee/in the fairway/etc. waiting for the majority of the round. If I was a new golfer that would make me very nervous and self-conscious.

I can remember a few years back I took my boss out for a late-afternoon round, and he plays maybe once a year. We started out on the range so he could get a feel, and then we moved to the tee. I don't think I'll ever forget that at certain times he was afraid to hit because there was a group playing an adjacent fairway. He kept commenting on how "we could get hit out here". I had to try and explain that it's like driving on the freeway - you have your lane, they have theirs.

Given that a lesson was occurring on the first tee box, an attentive starter should have picked up on this, and probably pulled the experienced guy aside and suggest something along the line of "hey, I've got an opening at 8:15 where a time is empty - perhaps your friend would be more comfortable without a group breathing down his neck". It would benefit everyone without seeming insensitive or off-putting.
 
So at our course in Mississippi they would allow first timers - especially kids to tee off on the back nine early in the morning. That way by the time they got through nine holes they were ready to go home.
 
Maybe I'm just a jerk, but I don't think the course is the place to be getting your introduction to golf.
 
You can't learn to play golf on a golf course. Its not fair to other golfers, or the person learning. Driving ranges, and open fields do serve a purpose. On top of that some advice about golf etiquette should be required.

Excuse my awful comparison but - would you let someone who just got their driving permit drive on the NJ Turnpike, or some other major highway without first giving some lessons in a parking lot, or from a driving instructor?
 
GenErr said:
You can't learn to play golf on a golf course. Its not fair to other golfers, or the person learning. Driving ranges, and open fields do serve a purpose. On top of that some advice about golf etiquette should be required.

Excuse my awful comparison but - would you let someone who just got their driving permit drive on the NJ Turnpike, or some other major highway without first giving some lessons in a parking lot, or from a driving instructor?
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So, if you are bad at golf you lose a few golf balls and roll a few drives....if you screw up on the turnpike you die and possibly take people with you. You're right "awful comparison"
 
AndyL0711 said:
So, if you are bad at golf you lose a few golf balls and roll a few drives....if you screw up on the turnpike you die and possibly take people with you. You're right "awful comparison"
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I said it was an awful comparison, and in no way did I mean to insinuate that driving on a major highway was comparable to a golf course. I appreciate your feedback and will try to be more careful in the future so as not to offend anyone.
 
JB said:
It is a really tough line to stand on. On one hand, they are playing on a Thursday rather than a Saturday or Sunday, on the other hand yeah it's tough to play behind.

I am not in the camp that believes new golfers need to be relegated to bad courses or cheap courses or times that may not work for their schedule. Yet I am in the camp that pace of play is crucial to the sport growth long term.
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I'm with you 100% on this one. It's a tough line to walk and, honestly, I wobble on either side of it. Again, at least it wasn't on a weekend. 🤷‍♂️
 
gkeller813 said:
Right now, I don't know the right time to bring beginner golfers out. I'm trying to get my boys out, but even afternoon/evening times are busy each and every day of the week. A buddy and I were going to get out tomorrow afternoon and are having difficulties finding a tee time as the courses we usually go to . As a decent golfer I don't want to get out on a course that takes a while to play. As a beginner, I too wouldn't want to hold up others on a course that packed.

An interesting conundrum right now with the influx of new golfers is this very aspect. When can you get out on course if you are learning the game without negatively impacting the rounds of others. One thing my neighbor, who doesn't golf but once or twice a year will do, is basically hit every tee shot, but after that pick up and move to where I hit my shot if his wasn't so good. So as a twosome we basically play a scramble, he has fun and gets to hit shots, and we keep moving.
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Honestly, this might be the best way to integrate a beginner. It keeps the pace moving and motivates them to get better so that they can start using their own shots plus the bonus little victories for them when they hit a shot well enough to play their own ball.......
 
Anyone should be able to make any te time they want. However, for pace fo play purposes i know of a few courses that strictly disallow anyone over a 15 hdcp to play before 11 am. that seems harsh......but i also get it as i absolutely loathe slow play. tough call. during the week, early morning, i don tthink it would bother nor would it affect m very much
 
This is a tough one in some ways as everyone has to start somewhere, it just depends on how much of a beginner this person really was, although it sounds like they can't be that bad if they had a fairly decent pace after they eventually teed off

PKorf said:
Anyone should be able to make any te time they want. However, for pace fo play purposes i know of a few courses that strictly disallow anyone over a 15 hdcp to play before 11 am. that seems harsh......but i also get it as i absolutely loathe slow play. tough call. during the week, early morning, i don tthink it would bother nor would it affect m very much
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I can't get behind that statement at all - handicap and pace of play are definitely not tied together as everyone knows, all you need to do is look at the pros on TV to see that. And I have played with plenty of people with low handicaps who take a lot longer than higher handicaps, so if I came across a course with that policy I would more than likely avoid it unless I really wanted to play there

Jen is still a relative beginner (WHS index 40+) so I am guessing there would be a lot of people who would roll their eyes if they were stuck behind us on the course, but we went out after work the other night, walked 8 holes, looked for balls after errant shots, hit multiple balls at times when a shot didn't go how we planned it and were still done in under 90 minutes without rushing, following a 4-ball ahead of us
 
I have no problem at all with beginners being on the course at any time. I know what it is like to be starting out and it is intimidating. I do have an issue with this guy’s buddy giving him a lesson on the tee box. Make your tee time 20-30 minutes later if you can’t get there until then and do that on the range. There are many reasons courses have tee times but of course they are spaced so it doesn’t get so backed up. When it is your time, you should be hitting the ball not getting a lesson.

When I play with a beginner or someone struggling, I tell them to relax and not worry about it. Starting out, they can play from where my ball is or just drop one in the fairway somewhere if they are not in play off the tee box. This eliminates the pressure and keeps them up to pace. They aren’t recording official scores for a handicap at that point anyway, they are out there to learn and have a good time.
 
What happens if the only time that person could play for the week is that specific start time? I'm not saying it's right to give a lesson on the course, but we don't know the full scale of information. There are also coaching sessions that they involve the person they are paying for a lesson to take them on a course for a round or a few holes or whatever.

Part of, in my opinion, what hampers people sticking with this sport is when you have people who complain about the new players because they are not good enough and fast enough. Then they hide behind key terms such as pace of play and etiquette as a rationale to treat people poorly either in person or online. If someone who's just starting out goes and reads this forum and looks at different threads about how beginners are terrible and they shouldn't play unless it's x, y or z time or date - if they are already self-conscience or have anxiety issues there's a chance (albeit small but still there) they'll never play again because they always assume people think the worst about them, and then people just proved that on the internet where people go for validation.

So, my personal thoughts are shame on those individuals, the ones that take away from the community, for thinking it's okay to treat others poorly. Everyone starts out bad at new things they try and probably are not up to snuff to what the better players, the only way to get better is to practice, did they do it the right way for you - apparently not, but that may have been their only opportunity.
 
The problem is slow play has become so normal that we have a generation(or two) of golfers that think 4 hours is a fast round. When I started playing golf I was shooting in the 60’s for nine holes and would still play 9 in about 90 minutes walking with other similar scoring junior golfers. My daughter played in the state high school tournament two weeks ago and her rounds took just under 6 hours both days. Something needs to be done to teach ready golf, shorter pre shot routines, and not treating each putt like it’s to win the US Open. The only way for me to have my normal 3 to 3.5 hour foursome pace of play at a public course is to play very early in the morning or late in the evening when the course is not busy.

I don’t know what the solution is as the public courses near me get slower each decade. I haven’t played golf in Europe but my buddies who have tell me pace of play is faster than in the U.S. I know many golf courses in Sweden restrict play to those with a minimum handicap(usually 36 or lower). That might help at some courses but we have plenty of golfers at my home club that shoot over 100 that have no trouble playing fast. In my experience, the private courses attract faster golfers even though their average index isn’t much lower than those who mostly play public golf. My current club allows fivesomes and it’s very normal to have 25% or more of the groups on a full tee sheet weekend going out as fivesomes and we still finish in under 4 hours.
 
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jdtox said:
New influx of golfers thanks to Covid. Great for the game, bad for securing tee times, pace of play and maybe the courses as I have seen so many divots and ball marks not being fixed. This morning @Lions81 and I arrived for our 7:30 tee time and was told there was a foursome in front of us which is fine as we were paired with another twosome. We stood there for a solid 10 mins and watched a guy who clearly had never played golf before get a lesson from his buddy on the first tee:oops:. At 7:30 AM on a track that isn't really conducive to beginner players. Eventually the starter walked over and told them to get moving and to be fair they did ok after that and eventually on the turn they let our foursome pass which saved us quite a bit of time on the back 9.

As a seasoned golfers we know better than to do such things don't we? I mean muni's are great for beginners as is twilight or afternoon golf? I'm just not sure that would even be fun for the guy who was struggling. Am I just being too get off my lawn?
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I don’t really mind it as long as pace of play is kept up. It get a bit perturbed when no one is ahead and they won’t let you through. But other than that - keep em swinging‘.
 
tahoebum said:
The problem is slow play has become so normal that we have a generation(or two) of golfers that think 4 hours is a fast round. When I started playing golf I was shooting in the 60’s for nine holes and would still play 9 in about 90 minutes walking with other similar scoring junior golfers. My daughter played in the state high school tournament two weeks ago and her rounds took just under 6 hours both days. Something needs to be done to teach ready golf, shorter pre shot routines, and not treating each putt like it’s to win the US Open. The only way for me to have my normal 3 to 3.5 hour foursome pace of play at a public course is to play very early in the morning or late in the evening when the course is not busy.

I don’t know what the solution is as the public courses near me get slower each decade. I haven’t played golf in Europe but my buddies who have tell me pace of play is faster than in the U.S. I know many golf courses in Sweden restrict play to those with a minimum handicap(usually 36 or lower). That might help at some courses but we have plenty of golfers at my home club that shoot over 100 that have no trouble playing fast.
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Where I am in the UK, 4 hours walking is considered slow, although for competitions it can get towards the 4 hours at times
 
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