Extending Clubs

[kevin81002]

My boss is 6'5" and stands pretty tall at address. He has always just taken a standard set of clubs and had extensions added to make them 1 1/2" long. He told me a couple weeks ago about how tired he is after a round of golf. I asked him if he had the shafts butt weighted at all to compensate for the extra length, and he replied no. I haven't actually put any of his clubs on a scale yet but I imagine with them being 1.5" long they're going to feel pretty head heavy. Fast forward to today... he asked me to build a driver for him (using some of my garage surplus for this.) I took my Srixon Z565 head, installed a Black Tie 60g shaft and cut it to 46 1/2" long. With a Tour Wrap midsize installed, SW was E3. The only way really to retain that length and bring the SW down is to install a heavier grip, or install a counterweight, correct? Looking for advice from some of the club building gurus here. I'm thinking I'm going to have to install a 40g counterweight, or cut it down another 1/2" and install something like an MCC+4 midsize (should make up about 9-10 sw points that route.)

 

[DG_1234]

My boss is 6'5" and stands pretty tall at address. He has always just taken a standard set of clubs and had extensions added to make them 1 1/2" long. He told me a couple weeks ago about how tired he is after a round of golf. I asked him if he had the shafts butt weighted at all to compensate for the extra length, and he replied no. I haven't actually put any of his clubs on a scale yet but I imagine with them being 1.5" long they're going to feel pretty head heavy. Fast forward to today... he asked me to build a driver for him (using some of my garage surplus for this.) I took my Srixon Z565 head, installed a Black Tie 60g shaft and cut it to 46 1/2" long. With a Tour Wrap midsize installed, SW was E3. The only way really to retain that length and bring the SW down is to install a heavier grip, or install a counterweight, correct? Looking for advice from some of the club building gurus here. I'm thinking I'm going to have to install a 40g counterweight, or cut it down another 1/2" and install something like an MCC+4 midsize (should make up about 9-10 sw points that route.)

I question whether he should swing a 46.5" driver. Even for a 6'5" tall player 45" finished driver length is good.

 

[kevin81002]

I question whether he should swing a 46.5" driver. Even for a 6'5" tall player 45" finished driver length is good.

With back issues, he doesn't want to bend over as much as he would need to with a 45" driver. So this is what I have to work with. I'm not looking to debate about what length driver "should" be played.

 

[Alez367]

My boss is 6'5" and stands pretty tall at address. He has always just taken a standard set of clubs and had extensions added to make them 1 1/2" long. He told me a couple weeks ago about how tired he is after a round of golf. I asked him if he had the shafts butt weighted at all to compensate for the extra length, and he replied no. I haven't actually put any of his clubs on a scale yet but I imagine with them being 1.5" long they're going to feel pretty head heavy. Fast forward to today... he asked me to build a driver for him (using some of my garage surplus for this.) I took my Srixon Z565 head, installed a Black Tie 60g shaft and cut it to 46 1/2" long. With a Tour Wrap midsize installed, SW was E3. The only way really to retain that length and bring the SW down is to install a heavier grip, or install a counterweight, correct? Looking for advice from some of the club building gurus here. I'm thinking I'm going to have to install a 40g counterweight, or cut it down another 1/2" and install something like an MCC+4 midsize (should make up about 9-10 sw points that route.)

i'd dry weight a MCC+4 midsize first then maybe try the counter balance weight.

 

[kevin81002]

i'd dry weight a MCC+4 midsize first then maybe try the counter balance weight.

MCC+4 midsize is 66g, which is an increase of 14g (roughly 4sw points.) So by going that route and not shortening the shaft, I'd need a 20g counterweight roughly. That's do-able.

 

[Sox_Fan]

To keep that length and get it down to a more normal D3 or so swing weight, I believe the counterweight and heavier grip would be the only way to go. Not sure if that weight in the back of the sole is removable or not. If so, taking that out would be another way to reduce swing weight and static weight of the club. Not sure that adding another 50 or so grams of static weight with the counterweight and heavier grip will solve the problem regarding the tiredness. The swing weight will come down but the driver will likely be quite heavy overall.

 

[kevin81002]

To keep that length and get it down to a more normal D3 or so swing weight, I believe the counterweight and heavier grip would be the only way to go. Not sure if that weight in the back of the sole is removable or not. If so, taking that out would be another way to reduce swing weight and static weight of the club. Not sure that adding another 50 or so grams of static weight with the counterweight and heavier grip will solve the problem regarding the tiredness. The swing weight will come down but the driver will likely be quite heavy overall.

The tired comment was more just me giving him a reason for his fatigue after a round. He knows no matter what we do, he'll be swinging a fairly heavy club regardless at the length he choose to play his clubs.

The weight in the head is removable, and comes in at 9g, which puts the swingweight as is without the weight at D9. My worry with doing that is A, how's it going to sound/feel without that head weight, and an open hole to the club cavity. and B, will removing that 9g from the lower back part of the head change the forgiveness of the club drastically?

 

[DG_1234]

To keep that length and get it down to a more normal D3 or so swing weight, I believe the counterweight and heavier grip would be the only way to go. Not sure if that weight in the back of the sole is removable or not. If so, taking that out would be another way to reduce swing weight and static weight of the club. Not sure that adding another 50 or so grams of static weight with the counterweight and heavier grip will solve the problem regarding the tiredness. The swing weight will come down but the driver will likely be quite heavy overall.

"Too heavy" is the common problem with over length clubs. Another problem is that the short irons and wedges are too long shafted with which to play shorter yardage shots.
These reasons are why exceptionally tall Tour pros a usually adopt their address posture to fit their clubs, rather than use over length shafts. I've talked to Phil Blackmar about this, who is about 6'5" and played the regular Tour for decades. Blackmar chose to stand relatively close to the ball and bend from his hips. Another tall pro, the late George Archer used excessive knee bend as address to get the club head down to the ball. He too was about 6'5".

 

[Sox_Fan]

The tired comment was more just me giving him a reason for his fatigue after a round. He knows no matter what we do, he'll be swinging a fairly heavy club regardless at the length he choose to play his clubs.

The weight in the head is removable, and comes in at 9g, which puts the swingweight as is without the weight at D9. My worry with doing that is A, how's it going to sound/feel without that head weight, and an open hole to the club cavity. and B, will removing that 9g from the lower back part of the head change the forgiveness of the club drastically?

Not sure how removing the weight would impact those aspects without trying it. Will likely hurt launch a little without that back weight in the head.

 

[kevin81002]

"Too heavy" is the common problem with over length clubs. Another problem is that the short irons and wedges are too long shafted with which to play shorter yardage shots.
These reasons are why exceptionally tall Tour pros a usually adopt their address posture to fit their clubs, rather than use over length shafts. I've talked to Phil Blackmar about this, who is about 6'5" and played the regular Tour for decades. Blackmar chose to stand relatively close to the ball and bend from his hips. Another tall pro, the late George Archer used excessive knee bend as address to get the club head down to the ball. He too was about 6'5".

You're comparing 2 pros who probably weighed 240lbs max to my boss, a probably 25 index golfer who is up there in age, weighs in at over 300 and has back issues. Come on man. The comparison is ridiculous and unwanted. I told you I'm not looking to debate about the proper club lengths. There's probably 3 dozen other threads already where you can go do that.

 

[Release]

It's more than just the swing weight issue.
As mentioned, the overall heavier static weight from added length and more effort to power a longer golf club is the fact no matter how tall or short a golfer is.
He needs to have his posture looked at, mostly trying to flex more in the knees and the hips instead of the shoulders and the back..... but that needs strong lower body to work .

If he just want to band-aid the issue with equipment fix. I'm guessing he also has larger hands, so have him try mid sized or jumbo sized grips , that will add some weight to the back. Do not get the expensive light weight jumbo grips.
removing the weight screw from the head is a good idea if, it does not change the design of the head for weight distribution.
Old method is to wrap lead tape under the golf grip. You can add or remove the lead tape later easily and it does not cost an arm and a leg to experiment this. Easy to make adjustment if, you use air to install / remove the grip. You can make adjustments in minutes in the future for optimal feel.

Driver is unlike the irons which is teed up and without turf contact. I don't see an issue with golfers over 6' swinging a std driver in length.

Another thought is, back when everyone is experimenting with longer driver shafts ( commonly to 47" ), the usual way is to use a lighter driver head with lighter shaft weight. Most use one flex softer to enable the fell of the kick form a longer shaft but I like to use one flex stiffer. If you're going to build a driver 47" long, check with some of the component dealers, these light weight heads are still available.

I would try to wrap lead tape under a mid size grip to start.

 

[Sean]

I am 6'5" with relatively short arms. My irons/wedges are +2-inches. I was told by more than a couple of fitters not to add more than one inch to a club. The last set of irons I had with steel shafts had a swing weight of E6. I switched to graphite and the SW is now D5. Each inch adds about one flex. For example, a club at +2-inches in stiff flex is approximately the equivalent of senior flex.

 

[DG_1234]

. The last set of irons I had with steel shafts had a swing weight of E6. I switched to graphite and the SW is now D5.

Shaft weight typically impacts swing weight by 1 point for every ten grams of weight. In other words, dropping 11 swing weight points (due to shaft change only) would mean a change of more than 100 grams of shaft weight. If you have an iron set that dropped 11 swing weight points (E6 to D5) alot more than shaft weight change must have happened.

 

[aljaklaw]

1. bigger heavier grip (which he probably needs anyways) -5pts
2. counterbalanced (maybe lighter as well) shaft -2pts
3. take 9g weight out of the head (cover hole with tape) -3pts to -5pts

lots of sw points easy right there, with Option 3 being the easiest and Option 2 being the hardest

 

[mski]

Run a piece of lead tape the length of the grip under the grip.
I experimented doing this this past summer on all my irons and love it. The lead tape is installed straight up the shaft on the bottom of the grip area. I use Winn Excel oversized grips so I don't feel the tape but if your boss is using midsized and not a wrap type grip he might feel the tape which placed in the bottom length of the grip will act as an align for his fingers.

 

[CBaker]

My boss is 6'5" and stands pretty tall at address. He has always just taken a standard set of clubs and had extensions added to make them 1 1/2" long. He told me a couple weeks ago about how tired he is after a round of golf. I asked him if he had the shafts butt weighted at all to compensate for the extra length, and he replied no. I haven't actually put any of his clubs on a scale yet but I imagine with them being 1.5" long they're going to feel pretty head heavy. Fast forward to today... he asked me to build a driver for him (using some of my garage surplus for this.) I took my Srixon Z565 head, installed a Black Tie 60g shaft and cut it to 46 1/2" long. With a Tour Wrap midsize installed, SW was E3. The only way really to retain that length and bring the SW down is to install a heavier grip, or install a counterweight, correct? Looking for advice from some of the club building gurus here. I'm thinking I'm going to have to install a 40g counterweight, or cut it down another 1/2" and install something like an MCC+4 midsize (should make up about 9-10 sw points that route.)

Like Sox said, it’s probably going to end up being a very heavy club. If you’re going to just use what you have lying around, yes the heavier grip and counter weight is going to be about all you could do other than taking the head weight out of the club and potentially altering some characteristics.

if willing to buy stuff, aren’t there “women’s” versions of some clubs that should function the same but come in lighter weights? Could be an option If I’m remembering correctly. A bonded driver might also save a few grams in the overall build as well. Again, if willing to buy anything

 

[kevin81002]

Like Sox said, it’s probably going to end up being a very heavy club. If you’re going to just use what you have lying around, yes the heavier grip and counter weight is going to be about all you could do other than taking the head weight out of the club and potentially altering some characteristics.

if willing to buy stuff, aren’t there “women’s” versions of some clubs that should function the same but come in lighter weights? Could be an option If I’m remembering correctly. A bonded driver might also save a few grams in the overall build as well. Again, if willing to buy anything

I chose that head and shaft because the head was the lightest head I had laying around (196g) and the shaft is the lightest uncut shaft I had. I have some other ideas on the weight. I am going to take another 1/2" off of it. Between that and a heavier grip, I should be able to get it down in the D6 range. I might throw the butt weight in the mill and machine some of the weight out of it. If I can get that weight down from 9g to 5g, there's another 2 SW points.

Thanks for all the ideas guys. It's much appreciated.

 

[CBaker]

I chose that head and shaft because the head was the lightest head I had laying around (196g) and the shaft is the lightest uncut shaft I had. I have some other ideas on the weight. I am going to take another 1/2" off of it. Between that and a heavier grip, I should be able to get it down in the D6 range. I might throw the butt weight in the mill and machine some of the weight out of it. If I can get that weight down from 9g to 5g, there's another 2 SW points.

Thanks for all the ideas guys. It's much appreciated.

FWIW, my driver actually specs out at D6 right now. While everything else is around D2-D3. I actually like it like that and it felt the same, but the swing weight scale was interesting to see haha

 

[MagicSpell]

I don't want to derail this thread, but does anyone have any good sources of information that I can learn about swing weights? I'm 6 foot 6 and play irons that have been custom fit to +1 inch (previous set was +1.5 inches). I do play standard (off the rack) driver and fairway woods. I've wanted to get my 56 degree wedge lengthened (it's standard length) to match the length of my irons but will that mess up the swing weight?

 

[OGputtnfool]

I chose that head and shaft because the head was the lightest head I had laying around (196g) and the shaft is the lightest uncut shaft I had. I have some other ideas on the weight. I am going to take another 1/2" off of it. Between that and a heavier grip, I should be able to get it down in the D6 range. I might throw the butt weight in the mill and machine some of the weight out of it. If I can get that weight down from 9g to 5g, there's another 2 SW points.

Thanks for all the ideas guys. It's much appreciated.

I thought you were trying to lower swing weight. If you grind weight off the butt weight, you'll add swing weight (or just not lose as much).

 

[kevin81002]

I thought you were trying to lower swing weight. If you grind weight off the butt weight, you'll add swing weight (or just not lose as much).

Sorry.... butt of the clubhead. The Srixon 565 has a 9g weight on the sole of the club that's all the way back on the sole. That's what I meant by "butt."

 

[Sean]

Shaft weight typically impacts swing weight by 1 point for every ten grams of weight. In other words, dropping 11 swing weight points (due to shaft change only) would mean a change of more than 100 grams of shaft weight. If you have an iron set that dropped 11 swing weight points (E6 to D5) alot more than shaft weight change must have happened.

The graphite shaft is 72 grams. I don't recall the weight of the steel shaft. But, the fitter did say it would be like swinging a sledge hammer, lol.

 

[denverd1]

I'm 6'3" and have always played longer clubs. I see 1" mentioned above as an acceptable length to extend irons, how much does swing weight change with 1/2" or 3/4" extension?

 

[DG_1234]

I don't want to derail this thread, but does anyone have any good sources of information that I can learn about swing weights? I'm 6 foot 6 and play irons that have been custom fit to +1 inch (previous set was +1.5 inches). I do play standard (off the rack) driver and fairway woods. I've wanted to get my 56 degree wedge lengthened (it's standard length) to match the length of my irons but will that mess up the swing weight?

1) Adding an inch of shaft length will increase swing weight by 6 points.
2) Adding weight to the club head will increase swing weight by 1 point per every 2 grams of additional head weight.
3) Adding weight to the grip (butt) end will decrease swing weight by 1 point for every 6 grams of additional grip weight.

The above points 1 and 2 are consistently accurate. Number 3 can vary a bit , depending on where exactly the added weight is added to the grip (butt) end of the shaft.

 

[DG_1234]

I'm 6'3" and have always played longer clubs. I see 1" mentioned above as an acceptable length to extend irons, how much does swing weight change with 1/2" or 3/4" extension?

Adding .5" to shaft length will increase swing weight by 3 points.
Adding .75" will increase swing weight by 4.5 points.

* the above assumes no change to grip weight.