Faster Backswing = More Club Head Speed?

[GolfLivesMatter]

I can see where a faster back swing, delivering a faster club head into the ball has some merit. I just don't think it's the right way to go for all golfers.

When it come to swing speed I always go back to the old swing guru's opinion that an individual, amateur golfer can only swing so fast, and still maintain control of the club head at ball impact. In other words not everyone can swing a driver 100+ mph.

I think amateur golfers can learn to swing faster, but only to point that their body will allow. Everyone is different.

I get what you're saying but I also watched the long drive contest with junior girls and the winner hit a 250 yard drive. Amazing efficiency in their swing sequencing and club head speed for their age / size.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

When my backswing is faster I hit it farther but my dispersion goes up. It is a balance for me. I believe a faster backswing can make you hit the ball farther but I am not as accurate.

I do at times on the range look for more speed then at the end of the session throttle it back to something I can control.

When you think about it, why would, say, 5-10 mph faster club head speed result in loss of control? 5 to 10 mph faster at the club head is exponentially faster than the hand speed increase for which I don't know what the increase would be, but maybe 1/3rd of a mph faster. Seems like it shouldn't be an issue....but it is...I get it.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

Personally: I don't generally do that. I'm certainly not going to try to emulate BAD , except I did experiment with SPS and found it worked for me.

Trying to emulate something like Im's back-swing is more me wondering "Hmmm... I wonder what would happen...?" as much as anything else. I certainly wouldn't expect it to produce magical results. In fact: I suspect trying it may do me more harm than good. But, as I noted in the "Did Byson mess himself up...?" thread: I tinker a lot.

Besides, how often do we think we're emulating a swing then on video we're not. LOL!

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

Don't try this at home folks! Lexi Thompson driver....feet practically off the ground at impact. Plus, look at her left leg....straight and angled back well before impact. Have your chiropractor on speed dial if you try this.

 

[Chef23]

When you think about it, why would, say, 5-10 mph faster club head speed result in loss of control? 5 to 10 mph faster at the club head is exponentially faster than the hand speed increase for which I don't know what the increase would be, but maybe 1/3rd of a mph faster. Seems like it shouldn't be an issue....but it is...I get it.

For me it is a balance and timing issue. When I speed up my backswing my sequencing struggles and I can tend to lose control of the club in the transition. Also the extra speed at the end of the handle can pull you out of position if you get things off the right path.

 

[93civiccpe]

A faster backswing often results in an ugly slice for me.. Like others have said I focus on a centered strike and hitting fairways

 

[JY56]

I started golf later in life but have always had good speed and distance at about 105. I really struggle with swinging back too fast and am making a conscious effort to slow down the backswing. My own observations are that I hit it just as far with the slower backswing. I think swinging back too fast hurts my game as it makes me swing back too far, which affects my posture and spine angle, which then affects the strike and dispersion suffers. Even if it loses a few yards, I would prefer less errant shots.

 

[Snickerdog]

Don't try this at home folks! Lexi Thompson driver....feet practically off the ground at impact. Plus, look at her left leg....straight and angled back well before impact. Have your chiropractor on speed dial if you try this.

Love watching her swing, but amazes me how she does it. But has great control and power.

 

[WMac19]

I haven't "tried" it, but it happened anyway.

Long story short, I have a terrible back and first received epidural shots in early '19. They worked and over time, unintentionally as a byproduct, my backswing became faster and longer. Because prior I was short and controlled, any increase to both could have been a benefit.

Only, for me, it invited serious sequence/tempo issues and a downward spiralling of my game and scoring. I'm now working hard to slow myself down so as to recapture good tempo.

So, yeah it works. I gained 20 yards off the tee I'd say, easily. But I'm shooting 6 or 7 strokes higher now on average per round than I was in 2018 due to being terribly inconsistent all too often.

I know the whole premise of the backswing speeding up recommendation is while also stressing the need to maintain tempo. But that's easier said than done for some.

And once such a change gets rooted into muscle memory, it's a bear to break. So as always, use caution with any swing changes.

 

[skujan]

I like Im's example: take it back delibertly but then transition to a swing.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

Then there's the complete opposite line of teaching.....found this video. He says to let your hands stay back upon the down swing. This guy is more interested in ensuring the weight is transferred to the left side at impact. After seeing the two videos, and in my own experience I think this is a better approach, and more in line with how I swing anyway. My problem is often not loading over my right knee on the backswing, or I don't push into the ground to unleash torque on the down swing. I can easily lose 10 mph from one swing to the next.

Anyone else's head spinning? LOL.

 

[Duffer Seamus]

Anyone else's head spinning? LOL.

Not really, because, just as I don't try to emulate pros' swings from watching PGA tournaments, I don't put a lot of stock in many YouTube videos. You start watching a bunch of YouTube videos and, next thing you know, you're chasing multiple, conflicting recommendations on how to fix this-or-that and end up not being able to hit diddly.

I did watch a couple Kirk Junge and Todd Graves videos on SPS to learn how it's done. I've found a couple videos that promote a slower, more controlled back-swing helpful.

To me: The small amount of yardage to be gained by some of these promised club head speed improvements isn't worth the potential cost.

 

[Typhoon]

There is merit to it, absolutely. I saw that same clip from the OP a few months back and looked into it. Don’t look at the guys on the PGA tour for this, they play for shot shaping. This is more about flat out speed. Instead, take a look at people like Kyle Berkshire, Joe Miller, Eddie Fernandes, Justin James, etc... the WLD guys. Nobody has a slow backswing.

You do have to be faster going back to create more speed coming down. It’s too much to try to create high speed from moving back too slow.

I’ve worked on it this year myself. You can’t just whip it back as fast as you can and expect miracles. It also doesn’t happen overnight.... I’ve increased my speed going back and got used to the overall faster tempo in my swing so I’m back to keeping it in play and there are no worries when I play that I’m out of control.

 

[Tevenor]

Personal opinion: You lose more distance from hitting off center by trying to swing harder than you gain from actually swinging harder.





Unless you can time it right and do both and then BAM, you wreckin some sh!t.

 

[TrueMotionMatt]

I think for 90% of golfers, their technique is so bad that any sort of speed training is less productive than making sure that they are efficient. And the pony tailed success story started the video with a perfect example...I can swing my 7-iron with 95mph club head speed, but my driver is only 111, so he's a perfect candidate for this type of exercise because he's already a good golfer as the Doc described.

A hacker swinging 95, hitting massive banana slices, would have more success...way more, by getting a full turn and not throwing angles early.

 

[Tevenor]

I think for 90% of golfers, their technique is so bad that any sort of speed training is less productive than making sure that they are efficient. And the pony tailed success story started the video with a perfect example...I can swing my 7-iron with 95mph club head speed, but my driver is only 111, so he's a perfect candidate for this type of exercise because he's already a good golfer as the Doc described.

A hacker swinging 95, hitting massive banana slices, would have more success...way more, by getting a full turn and not throwing angles early.

Interesting statement Matt. Do you feel there's an expected increase in Driver speed from a given iron speed? For example, if you are swinging your 7iron at 95mph, given the assumption that your dynamics/sequencing doesn't cause issues when hitting a driver, that you should be in the X MPH range with a driver? And if you under that, then you have swing dynamics issues?

Thinking of someone I know who swings a 4i 98 mph but driver is only 105 mph which seems odd given the speed of the 4iron, for example.

 

[Duffer Seamus]

A hacker swinging 95, hitting massive banana slices, would have more success...way more, by getting a full turn and not throwing angles early.

A hacker? Ha! I aspire to hackerhood

I used to hit massive banana slices. Not so much since I switched to SPS. I'm working on the full turn thing--or will be when the season resumes. I'm starting to get there with my irons. Not so much with my driver.

But what means "not throwing angles early"

 

[TrueMotionMatt]

A hacker? Ha! I aspire to hackerhood

I used to hit massive banana slices. Not so much since I switched to SPS. I'm working on the full turn thing--or will be when the season resumes. I'm starting to get there with my irons. Not so much with my driver.

But what means "not throwing angles early"

flipping, releasing, standing up, early extension, goat humping...all terms for throwing angles. It's what happens when you swing out of balance. Some call it losing lag, but Lag is a byproduct of moving your body correctly. You can't hold lag or hold your angles to create lag, but you can throw them early and lose lag...if that makes sense? Technically, you don't even need lag to hit with power and consistency, because as I mentioned, it's a byproduct of the correct body movements.

 

[TrueMotionMatt]

Then there's the complete opposite line of teaching.....found this video. He says to let your hands stay back upon the down swing. This guy is more interested in ensuring the weight is transferred to the left side at impact. After seeing the two videos, and in my own experience I think this is a better approach, and more in line with how I swing anyway. My problem is often not loading over my right knee on the backswing, or I don't push into the ground to unleash torque on the down swing. I can easily lose 10 mph from one swing to the next.

Anyone else's head spinning? LOL.

When you look at body track and other similar force plates, there are three forces. In the video, Chris is illustrating two of them that Rotary Swing really talks about in their teaching. Ironically, their namesake force isn't really taught in their program as Chuck teaches how to get speed through a shift (horizontal) and post up (vertical), but doesn't really discuss with his students the value of rotational forces coming from the feet. Torque/Rotation & Vertical are the most important forces in our opinion, and the simplest to use to create a repeatable & powerful golf swing.

Here's how we create speed with our body, all things that are measured with force plates:

• Rotational forces or torque.
• Horizontal forces (left to right)
• Vertical forces (up & down)

 

[ddstanford]

After watching Im at the Masters I went to the range today and tried a slow backswing with good results, certainly no loss of distance.

 

[Desmond]

Well, kind of.

A pause at the top of the back-swing means it takes less energy to get the club head moving in the direction of the down-swing, so less club head speed. Faster back-swing, no pause, is almost like slingshotting the club head. Problem there, of course, is control, since it takes more force to change the direction of the club head than to start it moving from a stop.

If you've got yesterday's 4th round of The Masters recorded, go to the 8:30 mark and watch Sungjae Im's swing. It's fascinating. He moves very slowly through about one-third of the way into his back-swing, even pausing slightly, then completes his back-swing and goes into the down-swing without pause.

I'm going to try that

Conversely: Watch DeChambeau's swing. He is really moving during his back-swing.

But it's not a pause at the top. Your lower body is always going. You are sequencing even with a fast swing and you must sequence. Sequencing in order means the clubhead is the last thing to go on the downswing.

 

[TrueMotionMatt]

After watching Im at the Masters I went to the range today and tried a slow backswing with good results, certainly no loss of distance.

Yeah, I don't think it's a problem if you make better contact, have a more consistent path, and hit more greens. Hidecki seems to do just fine with it. This is precisely why I said be careful with the approach of faster backswing.

 

[Duffer Seamus]

After watching Im at the Masters I went to the range today and tried a slow backswing with good results, certainly no loss of distance.

The thing about Im's back-swing is it isn't slow throughout the back-swing. He starts out slowly--looks very studied, perhaps even briefly pauses, then accelerates, hits the top, then begins his down-swing without pause.

As an aside: Our class instructor was always on us about doing our back-swings more slowly. His position was a fast back-swing did nothing to aid the down-swing. I can see both sides to that debate.

 

[Sooner21]

I was on page two thinking "wtf are the true motion guys??" And then you appeared. I haven't been able to practice one time in the last five years, but hoping that changes next season. Between work and kid if I have time I'm playing. As soon as I can actually practice I'm hooking up with True Motion - you guys have been impressive since you showed up.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

When you look at body track and other similar force plates, there are three forces. In the video, Chris is illustrating two of them that Rotary Swing really talks about in their teaching. Ironically, their namesake force isn't really taught in their program as Chuck teaches how to get speed through a shift (horizontal) and post up (vertical), but doesn't really discuss with his students the value of rotational forces coming from the feet. Torque/Rotation & Vertical are the most important forces in our opinion, and the simplest to use to create a repeatable & powerful golf swing.

Here's how we create speed with our body, all things that are measured with force plates:

• Rotational forces or torque.
• Horizontal forces (left to right)
• Vertical forces (up & down)

Agree....makes sense.