GolfLivesMatter
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- #51
This is true because while the club looks paused the lower body is creating a whip action and suddenly the club disappears past the ball.
Faster Backswing = More Club Head Speed?
For me a quick backswing is swing poison. When I think about swinging an orange whip my swing is at its best.
TrueMotionMatt
Well-known member
Technically it should translate...I'm someone who can swing a 7-iron 92 comfortably, 125-127 ball speed, and have a relatively slow driver swing around 111-112. Mostly because I come out of the shot a little and release things early. I always have, but it's something I'm working on. Meaning, I'm working on better technique and not trying to add speed via backswing speed. The speed for me will come around if I keep working on better technique.
braveheart
Well-known member
Interesting discussion here. I have always had a fast backswing. Too fast most of the time, using just arms with a poor turn has been my albatross. Seen on video and pointed out to me by instructors. Sure, I can make it work and get it it out there but it feels effortful and lacks consistency.
I have made more of an effort to turn slower in the backswing recently. This has made me focus on a deeper backswing (not a long one to start with) and this has improved my consistency in direction with no loss in distance. I think that if you have a fast backswing and can stay in sync (many of us can’t) you are fortunate and it’s great to do.
I have made more of an effort to turn slower in the backswing recently. This has made me focus on a deeper backswing (not a long one to start with) and this has improved my consistency in direction with no loss in distance. I think that if you have a fast backswing and can stay in sync (many of us can’t) you are fortunate and it’s great to do.
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It makes no sense whatsoever to me that a fast backswing means a faster swing.
GolfLivesMatter
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- #56
All I can think of is a faster backswing "loads" the shaft more during transition. Makes sense. If something is traveling at a high speed one way, and a sudden force is applied in the opposite way, a slingshot effect occurs. I just think it's very hard to manage.
Only works if you can take that increased momentum generated and load it into your downswing. Kind of like winding a spring.
If you know rally car driving/winter driving, the scandinavian flick is similar principal. Or think of a major league pitcher windup: upper body turns and moves away from the plate before transitioning towards the plate.
Right, but thinking about that pitcher, the velocity of his windup only changes how quickly the torque happens, not the volume of torque involved. At least that’s the way my mind is processing it.
It has some merits. I preferred a 360* swing. I could (dunno if I still can, haven’t tried) at one point knock the ball off the tee at the “top” of my backswing.
Lots of area to generate some speed. This one has its merits for sure. When I’m truly going after one I quicken it up. If keeping any semblance of control is a factor though I have about a normal backswing speed.
If I was banging 8 balls on the grid for pure distance, there’s going to be a lot different in my swing tempo wise mainly.
Lots of area to generate some speed. This one has its merits for sure. When I’m truly going after one I quicken it up. If keeping any semblance of control is a factor though I have about a normal backswing speed.
If I was banging 8 balls on the grid for pure distance, there’s going to be a lot different in my swing tempo wise mainly.
GolfLivesMatter
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I know what you're saying, but if a pitchers arm could endure a transition of a 70 mph backwards windup then support the generated torque into the transition into the throwing motion I have to believe the speed of the pitch would separate his shoulder and his arm would be laying on the mound. There's only so much torque the body can endure before injuries occur is my point, and it makes it very difficult to control.
uitar99
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My goal this winter: increase driving and long iron distance.
Tried the take it back faster route to increase the downswing. Its a change I know, but did not feel comfortable. Gonna stick with lower body: more explosive hip turn and use of the feet off the ground. Just feels better for me.
Tried the take it back faster route to increase the downswing. Its a change I know, but did not feel comfortable. Gonna stick with lower body: more explosive hip turn and use of the feet off the ground. Just feels better for me.
GolfLivesMatter
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- #63
I've been taking lessons for more distance. At setup, my pro has my right foot at 90* to the target line, and my left foot is flared to allow rotation on the down swing. The reason why the right foot is 90* to target line is because that limits my hip rotation to create tension / torque buildup, like a "base" if you will. Otherwise if the right foot is flared to the right my hips can easily rotate without any tension which doesn't create torque.
The initial move is a slight weight shift to my right foot, then I turn / rotate "over" my right knee. At the top of my backswing there's built-up tension over my right knee and in my right glute which wants to quickly unwind. Also, as I complete my backswing, my right hip has rotated up and away from the ball, not simply "around". He put an alignment stick in my belt loops to show how the hip rotation pointed the alignment stick down towards the ball at the top. Those popular guys "Me and My Golf" demonstrate this in several videos.
Upon playing yesterday I hit some drives up to 40 yards longer without trying to hit the ball hard, and directional stability was as good, or better, with a slight or medium draw vs. straight or slight fade. Iron distance also increased proportionately. I have zero thought about a fast back swing because the torque generation is far more powerful than trying to artificially create club head speed. The pro actually demonstrated this by taking his swing to the top.....stopping...then he hit a drive so far I couldn't see the ball. He said (like others on here) that proper sequencing will deliver the club head to the ball for much greater distance and to not work on speed so much as technique.
He said the fast backswing if done correctly by working from a SOLID baseline of good torque generation will generate more torque like long drive contest guys, but he said all too often the guys who try this lack the basic fundamentals to create any torque in the backswing, so they get into wild, out of control upper body swings. Then he took my 7 iron up to the top, stopped, and proceeded to hit it probably 190 yards, then said "any questions?". LOL.
braveheart
Well-known member
Did you already have an adequate or long enough backswing turn before he advocated you placing your right foot perpendicular to the target line ? I understand the building of torque idea but if one truly lacks a sufficient backswing does he/she need to flare the back out some?
I naturally toe out and this assists my turn but I am willing to experiment. Look forward to seeing further explanation.
GolfLivesMatter
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- #65
I can turn to about 90* with my shoulders with a straight right foot. That said, if I could not I would resort to 3/4 swing with torque vs. a "fake" 90* with a flared right foot because that makes it hard to build torque. I've seen some pro's play with shorter backswings and in my experience even a well-struck 3/4 swing is superior to a "fake" torque-less backswing. If that makes sense. Good question!
braveheart
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It does make sense. I am going to experiment with this. Appreciate the informative reply.
GolfLivesMatter
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- #67
Just make sure you shift slightly right....then turn OVER the right knee....AND keep the club handle in front of your chest as much as possible.
I could be wrong but I think this is very similar to what I teach my softball players in hitting about feeling the load. Pressure should be on the ball of the big toe on the back foot and you should feel tension in your quad as energy stores.
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What's funny is the broadcast did a comparison of Bryson's swing against Sungjae Im's - Bryson was finished with his swing before Im even finished his backswing
They mentioned the faster backswing was one of Bryson's techniques for faster overall swing speed, so I tried it at the range on Sunday afternoon and felt like I was swinging a bit faster. Lost a bit of accuracy though. After watching OPs video, the science makes sense and I'll keep that in mind next time I hit the range.
razaar
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Jon Rahm has a fast backswing and like Bryson he keeps the club in front of his body and doesn't let his arms out pace his body rotation. Recreation golfers generally use their arm swing to assist or even power their body coil where elite golfers use their wrists to fling the club head up with the arms following to the top. The arm action is separate to the body coil.What's funny is the broadcast did a comparison of Bryson's swing against Sungjae Im's - Bryson was finished with his swing before Im even finished his backswing
They mentioned the faster backswing was one of Bryson's techniques for faster overall swing speed, so I tried it at the range on Sunday afternoon and felt like I was swinging a bit faster. Lost a bit of accuracy though. After watching OPs video, the science makes sense and I'll keep that in mind next time I hit the range.
It is important to sequencing between backswing and downswing, that slack is kept out of the swing. If there is slack the body will be cut out and the forward swing will be driven by the arms.
If the arms outpace the body coil during the backswing the player loses control of the club with the right elbow acting as an anchor.
It is difficult enough controlling all these elements with a moderately paced backswing let alone a fast one.
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Key comments in the video.
#1 - "Longer" increasing the length the hands move while staying wide creates a longer runway to pick up speed on the downswing. Also, the potential for more stored energy to increase SS. But the latter is potential. If your arms collapse or you lose balance, you'll never achieve the potential.
#2 - "Your sequencing got better". That of course is not true for everyone and if your sequencing degrades all bets are off.
#1 - "Longer" increasing the length the hands move while staying wide creates a longer runway to pick up speed on the downswing. Also, the potential for more stored energy to increase SS. But the latter is potential. If your arms collapse or you lose balance, you'll never achieve the potential.
#2 - "Your sequencing got better". That of course is not true for everyone and if your sequencing degrades all bets are off.
skujan
Active member
Torque is something one can feel so good idea to experiment with the angle of the right foot.
Acesteve
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I think the question is really 2 part. (1) can a faster backswing increase speed and (2) can I make quality contact if I swing back faster. I can see a physics based argument for #1 related to momentum. Practically I see my swing getting better and longer when I do exactly the opposite. Something about a relatively slow backswing like IM makes me get a full turn (instead of sway) and must help me let the club start to drop before I intentionally make a motion to the downswing.
my dentists of many years was club champ at his club for about 10 years. He told me once to observe the women on tour not the men. His point was many of the guys are magicians that are hard to emulate. this idea of swinging back faster seems for me to be trying to emulate a master magician.
my dentists of many years was club champ at his club for about 10 years. He told me once to observe the women on tour not the men. His point was many of the guys are magicians that are hard to emulate. this idea of swinging back faster seems for me to be trying to emulate a master magician.
GolfLivesMatter
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Interesting. Yes, the load is on the ball of the right foot and the inside of the right heel. A pro used to put a ball under the outside of my right foot, in the middle of my foot to amplify the feel. Sometimes he would add a ball under the outside of the middle of my left foot to promote staying more centered during the swing.
Our instructor showed us a trick using alignment sticks to help learn to maintain centeredness: Stick one of those sticks in the ground on both sides of you.