Faster Backswing = More Club Head Speed?

That is exceedingly important.

The instructor in our classes this last summer I suspect was pretty good, but, being the engineering/scientist/analytical type I am: I need to know the "why" as much, or more than, the "how." He wasn't very good at the "why" part and I wasn't very good at learning the "how" from demonstration. Thus it's been a somewhat frustrating journey, at times, as I've slowly discovered "oh, that's what he meant" and figured out the "why" on my own.
Was listening to PGA Tour Radio a few years back-a Debbie Donnager conversation about learning...It went something like...she has discovered that students who have grown up playing video games are great with trackman data. Tell them to change their angle of attack, they do it. Less ball spin, they do it...Non gamers...they need to be shown...don't hit the tree on the backswing...
 
I've only gone through the first page of posts so if this has been mentioned before......

I think @pinseeker mentioned that speed and tempo are co-joined twins and I could not agree more. There have been fast swingers (example Nick Price) and those who seem to have a lazy/slow swings (example Ernie Els). What both had in common was tempo, a 3:1 ratio between backswing and downswing. For details on the science of that check out "Tour Tempo" (https://www.tourtempo.com/). I used that to great success years ago and had a stretch of my best golf ever. When I retired and started playing all the time and almost never practicing, I got away from it. It worked for me when I was adding a practice routine to my game. These days I don't even hit balls before a round.
Good post about rhythm. Martin Hall covers this really well. I would bet most of us swing the driver at about a 3:1 ratio or close.

 
I've only gone through the first page of posts so if this has been mentioned before......

I think @pinseeker mentioned that speed and tempo are co-joined twins and I could not agree more.

Speed/Tempo is an illusive thing. For example: I can get up in the morning, no warm up, cool temps outside and swing hard, out of my shoes and hit dead solid. I mean I can swing as hard as I want to. If I continue on, the wheels come completely off. Granted, some is due to fatigue, but if I continue throughout the day, I get to the point I can't really have good contact no matter what I do. Slowing down to half swings helps somewhat. If I quit altogether, and return in the late afternoon hours, I can hit decently again. I don't think it is all physical , but perhaps "mental" fatigue as well.
 
This is what I've found as well. when my back foot is comfortable, I can turn until I reach China but in the process I bend the left arm, move back off the ball, and have arms become disconnected from torso. In past 6 months, I have focused on getting that backfoot at 90degree angle to target line, then I worked on keeping left arm straight and recently on feeling connected ( I likely can hit balls with towels under my arm pits without dropping them).

what this has done for me (1) much shorter backswing with pressure on inside of right (back) foot. (2) my lower body naturally makes first move but unfortunately I find that this puts more pressure on my left knee and hip because I'm getting full transfer to the left side. That I played for years without any pain tells me I have changed. Much better contact with the ball across the bag.
I suggest doing some stretching VERY SLOWLY to the top, or as far as you can turn, but in doing so give yourself some reference point as to how far you're stretching during the process. Kinda like how you can bend to touch your toes and you can see how far the tips of your fingers are from your toes.

I put a driver under both arms with the club on my back with the butt end to my left side, then get into address position and slowly rotate back keeping my head facing forward. My right foot is absolutely straight in the first sets of stretches', then I'll pigeon toe my right foot to add more tension in subsequent sets. The more the right foot starts pointing to the left the ability to rotate to the top is less, and the stretch is achieved faster. This is just for stretching.

With the butt end on my left side I can see the butt end out of my left eye in relation to some point on the ground beyond the butt as it rotates, like a brown patch of grass or blades of grass. I rotate to a minor stress point, check where the butt is in relation to say the brown patch I pause, take several deep breadths, then continue in very small increments, all the way to my max. I try to go in about 1 inch increments and pause, hold, continue. Once I get to my max turn, I hold that position for about 30 seconds, then more deep breadths, then see if I can get the butt to move just a little bit more to the right. After reaching "max max", I VERY SLOWLY unwind back to address. I can feel my right glute and many other muscles and tendons quite noticeably as I reach the max. If I don't feel a glute stretch I'm doing something wrong.

Then I'll do the same for the down swing into impact position where the left leg is straight, shoulders tilted down, and there's a fairly significant stretch of my left side / glute. I strive to be in a pro-like position at impact during the stretch to ensure the proper tendons / muscles understand that position. Then stretch to the finish. Again, all done VERY SLOWLY, in increments, and with SLOW unwinds back to address position.

It's very similar to doing the toe touch stretch. When I first go to touch my toes, my fingers reach about 2 inches below my knees. But, as I let my arms hang, take deep breadths and let gravity work, within about 2 minutes I've stretched another 2 inches down. I was surprised how far I could actually turn to the top after several sets of stretching. I'm one of those guys who tightens up very quickly but I "think" I'm ready to play! LOL.
 
Speed/Tempo is an illusive thing. For example: I can get up in the morning, no warm up, cool temps outside and swing hard, out of my shoes and hit dead solid. I mean I can swing as hard as I want to. If I continue on, the wheels come completely off. Granted, some is due to fatigue, but if I continue throughout the day, I get to the point I can't really have good contact no matter what I do. Slowing down to half swings helps somewhat. If I quit altogether, and return in the late afternoon hours, I can hit decently again. I don't think it is all physical , but perhaps "mental" fatigue as well.
Interesting. Reminds me of what would happen to me during rounds if I just went straight to the first tee and swung away. I think what happened to me is my muscles / tendons were actually being slightly damaged from not stretching prior to play, and thus as the round progressed they "didn't want to play anymore".
 
Interesting. Reminds me of what would happen to me during rounds if I just went straight to the first tee and swung away. I think what happened to me is my muscles / tendons were actually being slightly damaged from not stretching prior to play, and thus as the round progressed they "didn't want to play anymore".
If that were the case, and I am not in disagreement; if you were to go to the first tee and just dialed everything back for several holes, you would achieve the same degree of muscle conditioning as the pre-round stretching does. But, who does that?
 
If that were the case, and I am not in disagreement; if you were to go to the first tee and just dialed everything back for several holes, you would achieve the same degree of muscle conditioning as the pre-round stretching does. But, who does that?
Pre-round stretching, and even during a round is the only path for me. Swinging on the course to stretch out would probably take me about 12 holes vs. 15 minutes before the round.

If for some reason I hit the 1st tee without any stretching I will dial back my swing somewhat to avoid injury, injury meaning I don't know it at the time, but later during the round inflammation / fatigue develops. I can't think of any sport that doesn't require some form of stretching before playing. I actually "over-stretch" vs. the regular swing movements. The golf swing is more athletic than not if done correctly. I know guys who get tired after hitting a large bucket.
 
Pre-round stretching, and even during a round is the only path for me.
I would strongly agree with this.

I've mentioned in a couple places that my driver performance had gone right in the crapper, lately. Well, yesterday I got serious about figuring out why and fixing it. And one thing I did, which I used to do religiously and had fallen out of the habit, was pre-practice/-round stretches.

I'm certain most of what led to me getting my drive back was figuring out the major swing flaw (standing up on down-swing), but I'm equally certain those pre-practice stretches helped a lot, too. Unlike when I went to the range a couple days ago, I didn't feel all stiff and awkward. I was able to swing smoothly. To "flow" through the swing.

I think I also figured out something else about which I've written here in THP before: Why working out with an Orange Whip seemed to hurt my swing, rather than help it. And I think it was the same reason my drive had gone to scheisse: I was standing up during the down-swing with the OW. That's probably what led me to start doing it with my clubs, and esp. with my driver. Why that's germane to this thread is I feel the OW is a terrific warm-up tool.
 
yah, I think you guyz is right about stretching. I have been remiss at doing it much on the first tee, just going through the motions with a driver. I am going to start taking my "Golfers' Tool Box" with me. It is heavier, longer, and stores my alignment rods in case I do decide on a rare visit to the practice range. It also gives me a handy place to hang a head cover whilst I swing with driver or fairway metal. The tool box will provide a much longer range of motion than a driver would.
 
inb4 "Sung-Jae Im and Hideki Matsuyama have slow backswings!"

I am a believer that the "swing slow enough that the ball goes straight" teaching hurts more golfers than it helps.

Swing fast, get distance, then dial in accuracy. Golf instruction is too focused on getting beginners hitting it straight.

More people need to swing faster.

bryson, welcome to the board!
 
I think tempo of back swing is VERY individual. Take a look at some classic long hitters like Ernie Els and Fred Couples. Looks very slow. Then you have Olazabal who is very quick but does not hit the ball very far. If you can take a quick back swing and remain in full control, then it may help you to keep up the momentum, like DeChambeau. But the slightest you move out of position, you will loose distance.
To second that, I played with a guy today who hit every shot off his back foot. A faster backswing would ruin him!
 
If that were the case, and I am not in disagreement; if you were to go to the first tee and just dialed everything back for several holes, you would achieve the same degree of muscle conditioning as the pre-round stretching does. But, who does that?
I've done that! Did it today. No range and due to unforeseen circumstances did not have the opportunity to warm up with stretching or anything else. The first hole has a narrow fairway with trees lining the left and a pond that stretches all the way to the knee of this dogleg right. Took one more club and dialed it back. Did that for two more holes then I was warmed up. (I carry my clubs, which helps too.)
 
Especially on the back nine, I will take a minute or two to stretch, lightly , two or three times, while waiting for the group ahead or our own group to hit.
 
Especially on the back nine, I will take a minute or two to stretch, lightly , two or three times, while waiting for the group ahead or our own group to hit.
Me too, and if I actually swing correctly or make full turns and build torque, my glutes and core start to fatigue after about 13 holes, so I have to stretch more as the round progresses.
 
Although I seem to be able to sync fairly well and can pretty much hit as hard as I wish to, it is deceiving. I consistently hit the target panel on a net dead center, but since I am only hitting from ten feet or so, I have no way of knowing how much side spin was imparted. In actual play, there is plenty of time for the ball to slice, or hook. We shall see how it works out next round. A net is great for mechanics, but not so good for determining trajectory. OTOH, from 45 feet or so, I can swing easy and still shape shots somewhat. Using an almost golf ball, I can swing a bit harder, introducing a bit more spin, and get a pretty good idea of what the ball is doing. Unfortunately, I am not able to get in full rounds often enough. I maybe get out only twice a month.
 
i experimented with the faster backswing idea a couple of years ago and now can't remember why I stopped ! I'm a 72 year old short knocker ( 200-220 yards ) so unlike the gorillas here could use a bit more distance, and this works for me. In Winter conditions hard to estimate the gain but I would reckon 3-5%, plus tighter dispersion and more consistent quality of strike.
Been pondering why and come up with 3 possible explanations:
1. Speeding up automatically energises the body - maybe a little adrenalin flow ?
2. There's less time for things to go wrong
3. It feels like I'm stressing the shaft more and starting the downswing before I've completed the backswing - which I'm told is a good thing.
 
i experimented with the faster backswing idea a couple of years ago and now can't remember why I stopped ! I'm a 72 year old short knocker ( 200-220 yards ) so unlike the gorillas here could use a bit more distance, and this works for me. In Winter conditions hard to estimate the gain but I would reckon 3-5%, plus tighter dispersion and more consistent quality of strike.
Been pondering why and come up with 3 possible explanations:
1. Speeding up automatically energises the body - maybe a little adrenalin flow ?
2. There's less time for things to go wrong
3. It feels like I'm stressing the shaft more and starting the downswing before I've completed the backswing - which I'm told is a good thing.

All of the above. Also, If I add just a little more wrist cock with the tiniest bit of pause at or near the top the distance is in creased dramatically (and I am 78 yrs old hacker). I have not as yet opted for the super swing speed training protocol other than making my own speed stick, but it works well enough for my purposes.
 
You're right, keeping everything connected is probably the most difficult issue for lots of folks. I watched some guys who were working with the Tour Striker Ball on the range yesterday and they had a very hard time keeping the ball between their forearms. It looks easy but it's not so simple because a LOT of the guys didn't realize how much their arms were out-pacing their shoulder turn on the back swing, then how much their shoulders out paced their arms on the down swing which caused right hand flipping to catch-up. And these were easy, half swings. Imagine the disconnect on full swings? I tried the ball and found I was slightly out-pacing the butt of the club on the downswing which I'm pretty sure results in the dreaded thin or sometimes bladed short game wedges. [EDIT]. I forgot to add that some of the guys actually started topping the ball because they were so used to flipping the right hand to save the shot.

I added a really great TaylorMade video of Tiger, Rory, and Jason D on the course hitting short shots. Watch how they all keep the butt of the club in front of their chest. And for fun, watch how Tiger lifts a ball with his wedge then hits the ball backwards towards the other guys. Talk about club face control...LOL. Imagine spending all day with these guys watching and learning.





I love that short game video. Jason Day is great as kind of the host asking questions. They all seem a bit in awe of what Tiger is able to do from a short game perspective. 15 years ago I couldn't see Tiger doing this video.
 
speed and tempo are co-joined twins
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Totally agree, to get perfect tempo, the backswing has to be part of it. Too slow or fast it can screw up tempo on regular folks. The reason I'm swinging at pro/medium, not pro/fast is because I cannot do the backswing fast enough for good tempo. I can do the downswing fast enough, but my tempo would already be shot.
My perfect tempo is .8 seconds on backswing, and .27 seconds on downswing. The .7 sec on backswing needed for the faster tempo is something I can work into next year after working with super speed golf over the winter... we'll see I guess.
 
I love that short game video. Jason Day is great as kind of the host asking questions. They all seem a bit in awe of what Tiger is able to do from a short game perspective. 15 years ago I couldn't see Tiger doing this video.
It's like being out there with them practicing. I think I learned more by watching and listening to what they are saying vs. reading 10 books on the short game. Rory's drawing the lines in the sand is so simple yet so effective.
 
It's like being out there with them practicing. I think I learned more by watching and listening to what they are saying vs. reading 10 books on the short game. Rory's drawing the lines in the sand is so simple yet so effective.

I liked that bit from Rory also and am going to use it next time I am practicing in the sand.
 
I liked that bit from Rory also and am going to use it next time I am practicing in the sand.
I actually drew lines in the sand yesterday and it was pretty interesting how my brain liked seeing a line to hit vs. more "guessing". All the balls came out much easier....no where near Rory's accuracy, but the difference is pretty amazing to see and feel. I also watched his body turn and wrist position during the swing and tried to duplicate. Now I don't know what I was doing prior to this? :unsure:
 
All of the above. Also, If I add just a little more wrist cock with the tiniest bit of pause at or near the top the distance is in creased dramatically (and I am 78 yrs old hacker). I have not as yet opted for the super swing speed training protocol other than making my own speed stick, but it works well enough for my purposes.
Interesting suggestion thanks, will give that a try in my continual quest for eternal youth !
 
Problem is taunt muscles are slower then loose muscles. Most people tense up and attempt to “muscle” it when trying to swing faster at any point in their swing. This is part of the reason they lose control in my opinion. This is also why they are actually slower when they “swing for the fences”.
 
Problem is taunt muscles are slower then loose muscles. Most people tense up and attempt to “muscle” it when trying to swing faster at any point in their swing. This is part of the reason they lose control in my opinion. This is also why they are actually slower when they “swing for the fences”.
That's a really good observation about muscling the club. I have been on the course many times playing 2 or more balls each hole. I will make one driver swing the "whack it hard" swing, and the other is what I term "simple connected rotational" swing for which I say to myself "hit this 150 yards". Most often the "150 yard" swing distance is farther, and sometimes MUCH farther than the "whack it hard" swing. Same with 17-24 degree hybrids and 3W. Plus the dispersion is much better for all. It's not easy to relax AND swing faster but that's what's required.
 
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