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Game Improvement or Players Distance

SuperStroke
jvbart

jvbart

2022 Quest Cup with Edel Golf
Albatross 2024 Club
Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Messages
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Location
San Diego
Handicap
17.0
I have been playing golf for 2 years now with a used set of Callaway X-14 pro series irons. I'm starting to improve (usually shoot in the mid 90s) and am looking to upgrade my Irons. I have no trouble with distance (105-110 mph swing speed with Driver) but struggle with accuracy. I tried my friends Burner 2.0 Irons and they felt huge and awkward to me. I know I should probably be playing game improvement irons but I'm worried that I will struggle with larger club heads now that I'm used to playing something a bit smaller for so long.

Anyone have some advice if it's worth going to a larger game improvement iron or if something in the players distance category offers similar forgiveness to some of those larger club heads? I'm looking to buy something a couple years used. Any advice would be a huge help as I really have no reference how much more forgiving game improvement irons are.
 
As @JB would say, you can have both. SO many good offerings out there.

I'm a high cap player (22.6 right now) and I play Callaway Apex Forged irons. Are they "too much club" for a player of my ability? I don't know. There are several trains of thought regarding this issue. I think we've all heard the arguments. I've always had one of them stick with me, though. I had a golf pro once tell me that, yes, GI irons will be more forgiving on mishits but if all you hit GI irons it will mask flaws in your swing that you might just get comfortable having. He said that he rarely recommended GI irons to his students because he wanted them to learn how to hit the ball correctly and that GI irons only served to further mask their swing flaws.

On the other hand, GI irons make the game more enjoyable to players who may not have the time or resources to fine tune their game.

I found THP when I first ordered my irons and I was looking for feedback on the model that I had ordered and I was a little nervous that I had bitten off a little more than I could chew as a high handicap. I explained that I had just come out of playing the original Callaway Fusion irons and I was hoping these would play similar or better. Many posters had the opinion that the transition between the two should be relatively smooth.

Once my irons showed up and I took them to the range there WAS a bit of a learning curve. That can be attributed to a couple of factors. First, I was just getting back into the game after a 5 year hiatus. Second, I had never played a club of this level before (but I couldn't pass up the deal because it was a great price AND I'm a card carrying Callaway fan boy). One thing that really DIDN'T change was my scores.

I played no better or worse with the new Apex Forged clubs. What DID change was the FEEL of my shots. With GI irons I could feel that MAYBE that shot was "a little off the toe". With the forged irons there was no doubt That was off the toe. A flushed shot with the GI irons felt pretty damned good. A flushed shot with the forged irons was absolutely blissful. I was in love.

I've gamed a couple of GI irons sets. Including Callaway X-12s (my first "real" set of irons), Nike Slingshots (I could never get past that whistling sound on the downswing) and the Callaway Fusions (though I'm not sure if those were actual GI clubs). I've never played a set of true blades but if I came by a lefty set at a great deal I'd buy them just to satisfy my curiosity of how much different they would actually feel to play.

I went to a PGASS not long after the new Apex CF19 came out and was pleasantly surprised that they had a lefty demo 7i to hit. I went into the bay and just started banging away. I was IN LOVE. I smacked it around for a good 30 minutes and figured it was time to move on. When I went to put the club back on the rack I saw a new version of an old familiar friend: the 2019 Big Bertha irons. I just HAD to give them a swing or twenty. When I saw it on the rack it was shafted witha Recoil graphite shaft. "Perfect", I thought. I'd been wanting to swing one of these for a long time. When I first picked the club up, I noticed immediately that this set up was LIGHT (I wish I would have paid more attention to the flex and weight of the shaft). I put a couple of swings on it without a ball just trying to gauge the feel and swing weight of the club. Finally, I dropped a ball on the hitting mat and bashed one into the screen. Nope. Another. Nope. I was hitting the ball decent and the numbers on the screen weren't horrible but NOTHING about that club felt even remotely good to me. Honestly, it was a little heartbreaking. It felt like I was abandoning an old friend. To be fair, that set up may have been all wrong for me. But, again, the numbers on the screen were solid but the feel of those shots were an absolute NOPE. I will almost guarantee that a pro or fitter would look at my handicap and say "Those Big Berthas are going to be better for your game" and I will disagree until the cows come home. That club instilled ZERO confidence. If I'm not confident with that club in my hand, nothing in the world will make it work for me.

Go out and hit some of these new offerings. Get fitted with an open mind and see what shakes out.
 
robrandalgz said:
As @JB would say, you can have both. SO many good offerings out there.

I'm a high cap player (22.6 right now) and I play Callaway Apex Forged irons. Are they "too much club" for a player of my ability? I don't know. There are several trains of thought regarding this issue. I think we've all heard the arguments. I've always had one of them stick with me, though. I had a golf pro once tell me that, yes, GI irons will be more forgiving on mishits but if all you hit GI irons it will mask flaws in your swing that you might just get comfortable having. He said that he rarely recommended GI irons to his students because he wanted them to learn how to hit the ball correctly and that GI irons only served to further mask their swing flaws.

On the other hand, GI irons make the game more enjoyable to players who may not have the time or resources to fine tune their game.

I found THP when I first ordered my irons and I was looking for feedback on the model that I had ordered and I was a little nervous that I had bitten off a little more than I could chew as a high handicap. I explained that I had just come out of playing the original Callaway Fusion irons and I was hoping these would play similar or better. Many posters had the opinion that the transition between the two should be relatively smooth.

Once my irons showed up and I took them to the range there WAS a bit of a learning curve. That can be attributed to a couple of factors. First, I was just getting back into the game after a 5 year hiatus. Second, I had never played a club of this level before (but I couldn't pass up the deal because it was a great price AND I'm a card carrying Callaway fan boy). One thing that really DIDN'T change was my scores.

I played no better or worse with the new Apex Forged clubs. What DID change was the FEEL of my shots. With GI irons I could feel that MAYBE that shot was "a little off the toe". With the forged irons there was no doubt That was off the toe. A flushed shot with the GI irons felt pretty damned good. A flushed shot with the forged irons was absolutely blissful. I was in love.

I've gamed a couple of GI irons sets. Including Callaway X-12s (my first "real" set of irons), Nike Slingshots (I could never get past that whistling sound on the downswing) and the Callaway Fusions (though I'm not sure if those were actual GI clubs). I've never played a set of true blades but if I came by a lefty set at a great deal I'd buy them just to satisfy my curiosity of how much different they would actually feel to play.

I went to a PGASS not long after the new Apex CF19 came out and was pleasantly surprised that they had a lefty demo 7i to hit. I went into the bay and just started banging away. I was IN LOVE. I smacked it around for a good 30 minutes and figured it was time to move on. When I went to put the club back on the rack I saw a new version of an old familiar friend: the 2019 Big Bertha irons. I just HAD to give them a swing or twenty. When I saw it on the rack it was shafted witha Recoil graphite shaft. "Perfect", I thought. I'd been wanting to swing one of these for a long time. When I first picked the club up, I noticed immediately that this set up was LIGHT (I wish I would have paid more attention to the flex and weight of the shaft). I put a couple of swings on it without a ball just trying to gauge the feel and swing weight of the club. Finally, I dropped a ball on the hitting mat and bashed one into the screen. Nope. Another. Nope. I was hitting the ball decent and the numbers on the screen weren't horrible but NOTHING about that club felt even remotely good to me. Honestly, it was a little heartbreaking. It felt like I was abandoning an old friend. To be fair, that set up may have been all wrong for me. But, again, the numbers on the screen were solid but the feel of those shots were an absolute NOPE. I will almost guarantee that a pro or fitter would look at my handicap and say "Those Big Berthas are going to be better for your game" and I will disagree until the cows come home. That club instilled ZERO confidence. If I'm not confident with that club in my hand, nothing in the world will make it work for me.

Go out and hit some of these new offerings. Get fitted with an open mind and see what shakes out.
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I’m in the same line of thinking as above. I didn’t want to mask mishits. I wanted to learn how to strike the ball properly. I also tried a GI but didn’t like the bulk I was or the weight of it. I also chose the Apex 19. Wasn’t sure it was the right choice that first week. However it didn’t take long before I started to improve. I still have a long ways to go but my HC has dropped by 3 over the past 3 weeks. I wanted a club that I could grow into and the Apex felt great to me. Not to mention it is very appealing to look at.

Go test some clubs out and see what feels good to you. Also I’d suggest a fitting.
 
I think you answered your own question just by the way you worded it. Clearly you dont really love the look or thought of the larger GI irons, so it makes sense to go for something in a players distance that will likely fill you with more confidence.

Golf is so much about confidence and how you feel with a club. Some will be comforted with the larger club head and others will be put off. There is no right or wrong answer, and there is nothing that says certainly clubs are only for 'X' cap players.

Just going based on your post, I would suggest looking at something like the original P790s. Should be found at a discount now with the new release, and many golfers of all abilities have seemed to share positive feedback on them.
 
My one piece of advice is don’t buy irons that you “should play”, buy irons that you feel confident with and perform for your swing. The GI/Distance/Players iron moniker means nothing if you aren’t comfortable looking down on them.
 
ApexFan said:
I’m in the same line of thinking as above. I didn’t want to mask mishits. I wanted to learn how to strike the ball properly. I also tried a GI but didn’t like the bulk I was or the weight of it. I also chose the Apex 19. Wasn’t sure it was the right choice that first week. However it didn’t take long before I started to improve. I still have a long ways to go but my HC has dropped by 3 over the past 3 weeks. I wanted a club that I could grow into and the Apex felt great to me. Not to mention it is very appealing to look at.

Go test some clubs out and see what feels good to you. Also I’d suggest a fitting.
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Agreed, brother. I know this may sound "campy" but I've really kind of been into the whole "journey" of improving as a golfer. Don't get me wrong, I've broken my own heart several times with this game. Been on the verge of quitting a couple of times the past few years (one being a mere week ago) but the highs and lows of figuring this whole thing out has been oddly satisfying (even when it isn't satisfying at all, at least from a scoring standpoint).

I shot a legit PB 82 this season and it was one of the most satisfying things that I've experienced in I don't know how long. And that's the great thing about this game. To some, they'd come home after an 82 and be completely pissed that they totally blew it that day. For me? I was walking on cloud 9. We all have a swing that uniquely our own. Our own goals and expectations. Our own highs and lows. Our own walk with the game. I love it all so damned much.
 
I
jvbart said:
I have been playing golf for 2 years now with a used set of Callaway X-14 pro series irons. I'm starting to improve (usually shoot in the mid 90s) and am looking to upgrade my Irons. I have no trouble with distance (105-110 mph swing speed with Driver) but struggle with accuracy. I tried my friends Burner 2.0 Irons and they felt huge and awkward to me. I know I should probably be playing game improvement irons but I'm worried that I will struggle with larger club heads now that I'm used to playing something a bit smaller for so long.

Anyone have some advice if it's worth going to a larger game improvement iron or if something in the players distance category offers similar forgiveness to some of those larger club heads? I'm looking to buy something a couple years used. Any advice would be a huge help as I really have no reference how much more forgiving game improvement irons are.
Click to expand...

guess I’ll ask a couple of questions before potentially responding.
1: what are you trying to achieve with new irons / equipment?
2: what are you most comfortable with now? Currrent day
3. Have you invested in lessons in the two years you’ve been playing?
4. Have you ever been professionally custom fit?
 
Yeah, you answered your own question.

If you regularly shoot mid 90s with old pros and are looking to improve I don't see any reason to go to a full GI iron. The forgiveness with modern players distance irons should be plenty. If you go full GI you probably won't like the soles. Those X 14's are pretty thin. Which newer irons would suit you really depends on your game and there are lot of really good people here with a lot of experience with them throughout the years to help guide you. robrandalgz 's answer alone kind of makes me proud to just be a member here. So you came to the right place!
 
Thanks for the responses guys!

1) As far as equipment, right now I'm really trying to improve my accuracy and consistency in my iron game. I wouldn't mind sacrificing some distance for accuracy if necessary. I still have plenty of mis-hits and slices and some occasional shots fading left.
2) I feel comfortable with my current set and my dads mizunos which are player distance, haven't played much else other than the burner 2.0s which I was not comfortable with. I'm going to start trying some demos but was just hoping to narrow it down.
3) My dad helped me with my swing quite a bit at first and I have been to a few group lessons where I get 5 min blocks of coaching/advice from a pro.
4) I have never been custom fit. I bought my set used. I'm 6ft so I figured a standard length set would be fine to get started.

I guess one of the things I was wondering is should I be picking an iron category to test based on my handicap or what I have been playing with and am used to? If GI really offer a lot more forgiveness is it worth me going with those and just playing them until I get used to it or should I stick with what I feel good with now.
 
Just got through all the responses, thanks again guys it's all very helpful! I don't have a huge budget to spend on clubs so it's really nice to get some feedback. First ones I want to demo are the callaway apex and the mizuno lines. I may try to find some GI's with smaller club heads but I havent quite recovered mentally from how rough my round with the burner 2.0s was.
 
jvbart said:
2) I feel comfortable with my current set and my dads mizunos which are player distance, haven't played much else other than the burner 2.0s which I was not comfortable with. I'm going to start trying some demos but was just hoping to narrow it down.
3) My dad helped me with my swing quite a bit at first and I have been to a few group lessons where I get 5 min blocks of coaching/advice from a pro.
4) I have never been custom fit. I bought my set used. I'm 6ft so I figured a standard length set would be fine to get started.

I guess one of the things I was wondering is should I be picking an iron category to test based on my handicap or what I have been playing with and am used to? If GI really offer a lot more forgiveness is it worth me going with those and just playing them until I get used to it or should I stick with what I feel good with now.
Click to expand...

#1: get custom fit before you do anything. Theres no point in picking one or the other on a hunch that may or may not help you at all You may be surprised at the findings when an expert does the fitting. DONT DO IT AT GOLF GALAXY. Unless their head pro is the one fitting you. Go somewhere like clubchampion. Or a local fitter if theres one available.
#2: rather than potentially buy new gear without getting fit, why not go get some individual one on one lessons with the equipment you do have first. If hes good at what he does (lessons) he will probably recommend the fitting at some point.
#3: regardless of what anyone thinks, you should try and play what is fitted for you and within that realm what looks the best for you. Not what you "should play" because of progression or where you started out. None of that matters. Can equipment help your game? SURE! Can it hurt your game if you make a switch without substantiated evidence of it being right for you? Even more so.

Best of luck and keep us posted on what ya decide!
 
usaf_giles said:
My one piece of advice is don’t buy irons that you “should play”, buy irons that you feel confident with and perform for your swing. The GI/Distance/Players iron moniker means nothing if you aren’t comfortable looking down on them.
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This is a really good point and shouldn’t be overlooked. I’m firmly a midcap and I don’t spin the ball a lot, so a lot of the “GI” clubs out there just flat out don’t work for me. Last year I put 718 AP2s in the bag and I was very successful with them with the added loft and spin.
For the same reason that’s why I went with the Apex combo set this year. Yes, the pros are above my play grade, but I love looking at them and they work for me.
My advice, try everything. Even irons that maybe you think might be above your play grade. You might be surprised!
 
When I was fit, I was a little concerned when the fitter handed me a "players" club, but he demonstrated how missing the center is not my swing issue, nor do I need help with spin or launch, and that while the 'handicap formula' might suggest GI/SGI clubs, those designs in general are going to go too high with too much spin.

I'd suggest going into a fitting with an open mind to anything you're ok looking at. Finding a good fitter helps a lot too, although I'll admit it's tough to recognize one until you have the good luck to encounter them.
 
jvbart said:
I may try to find some GI's with smaller club heads but I havent quite recovered mentally from how rough my round with the burner 2.0s was.
Click to expand...
Can I just pull this line out for a second?

If you are basing your preferences on a single round with unfamiliar clubs, possibly one where you may have a huge disparity in shaft weight and flex, lie and length before you even get to the actual heads and head size/weights in comparison to your Callaways you've been playing for a couple of years, I'd suggest that the biggest crime the Burners commited was solely that they were not your Callaways.

If it were me, before I spent too much/anything on it, I'd do a couple of things first:-
1. find out the differences (where possible) between my current and those other clubs that didn't work so well for me, and
2. play another couple of rounds / range sessions with those other clubs to get acclimatised properly, in case I worked out what was causing the issues and then had an Excalibur moment.

That's just me though. Good luck however you decide to go.(y)
 
I went from SGI Ping G30s to Forged CF19s (not sure what they fall into) this year, and our experience and abilities seem similar.

The difference between the two are night and day. I hit further and straighter on clean contact shots. On poor contact shots, the ball goes much worse.

I LOVE the forged irons and do not see myself going back to a GI or SGI any time soon.
 
Just to throw something out there, you might also consider some Srixon Z585s. They look and feel awesome but do have some more help. They have also been out a while so you could probably find a decent price.
 
If you have a 105-110 mph swing speed, I would question if you need any distance help at all. Very good players aren't playing distance irons for a reason. Having reasonable gaps and consistent distances allows you to get good scores. There are a lot of forgiving, non super distance irons out there that would probably give you the most repeatable shot locations with good gaps. Ping's irons come to mind (i200, i210, i, i25, i20). The Srixon z series mentioned too.
 
I have a friend whose swing speed is in the 120 range. He played TM M2 irons. Earlier this season he switched to the Mizuno MP-20s. He doesn't hit them as far as the M2's, but the lofts are much weaker, however he is much more accurate and can work the ball a lot easier with them. I have always seen irons as scoring clubs, not distance clubs. The scorecard doesn't care what number is on the bottom of the club.
 
Id go with the most forgiving irons that you can stand to look at. We all want to play pretty clubs but sometimes you have to go with whats right for you game, even if that means club with oversize heads, offset, thick soles and deep cavities.
 
If you swing 105-110 with the driver and struggle with accuracy I would suggest looking at the shafts in your irons first. The X14PS was a great iron (I shot my best round ever with them) but frequently came with the uniflex Callaway shaft. For your swing speed that would likely be too loose and could lead to inconsistency.

I am not sure what clubs you would lump in players distance but something line a T200, Ping i210, Srixon 585 could all be good matches for you.
 
Awesome thanks guys! My current irons have stiff steel shafts. I had heard Mizuno makes very forgiving irons so I wanted to give them a try along with the callaway apex just because I have been using Callaway for awhile now. That said I'm open to any iron that works well for me.
 
Check out Golfworks.com and "Maltby" clubs,,, I purchased a set of PTM Forged Irons (heads) and love them and with a fraction of the price of what you spend on name brand clubs...They also have a catalog to help. ( I installed Kura Kage shafts which I had installed on my previous Callaways )
 
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