Gatorade Drops Tiger Woods.

[dynarider]

Wasn't Gatorades slogan something like "is it in you?". Would that appropriate now since we know a lot of Tigers mistresses could say "sure is'.

 

[NikeGolf]

No sir. What you said was that we were "Morons". The whole concept of role models for kids, especially inner city kids is a good and worth while program. Yes, parents should be positive role models, but to make the statement that athletes should not be is simply not very intelligent, sorry. Ask President Obama if he supports the First Tee program. Ask child psychologists if positive role modeling by athletes is a good thing.

And I don't take the "moron" statement back either.

I said if you, as an adult, put Tiger in a "role model" light, or took him for someone that could do no wrong off the course, then yes, you did something that you shouldn't have done in the first place.

Pro athletes SHOULD NOT be role models. To me, that's not debatable.

Some of the orginizations, donations, and community work that some pro athletes do is great and should be applauded. But it stops there.

In the end, the kids aren't the pro athletes responsibility. But yet, we're going to get mad about it when they screw up as if hundreds of thousands of kids were let down and are now scarred for life?

C'mon.

 

[JB]

Can you say for sure that he WASN'T good for the kids, at least in some ways? (work ethic, relationship w/ parents, etc)

Look, I know the point being made here and there is no way to sugar coat it. Tiger screwed up badly, and now, everything he has ever done is looked at now as being very hypocritical. And I can't say that that line of thinking is incorrect, because it does have merit.

But, let's not persecute the guy to death because he was a "false idol" of sorts to some kids. A parent can instead use Tiger as a lesson to show kids that people screw up and do stupid things, even people like Tiger.

Would you rather have Tiger said NO to the program? Along w/ the donations from him?

I can say without a shadow of a doubt...YES!!!! They get money from tons of players and forget the money, they will get it from the PGA Tour. He was THE GUY for them and these kids were taught to look up to him. Heck, its their motto, and he embraced that.

Sure there was some good for the kids. But you could say the same thing about PacMan Jones, Mike Vick, etc...These guys all worked hard to get where they are. Im not comparing his issues with theirs at all, but those guys never TRIED to portray themselves like him. They never tried to be a part of group that was built on ethics, morals, honesty, and role models.

After leaving his previous rehab, Woods is now apparently in rehab to rid himself of his addiction to sleep aids and pain killers. I applaud him for that, but that is not exactly what he portrayed himself as.

Its one thing to be fake to the fans, which we all know WOods was. Its another thing to embrace a place like this charity and be a part of it, knowing you were the anti everything of what they stood for.

 

[JB]

Pro athletes SHOULD NOT be role models. To me, that's not debatable.

.

But the athlete should not CALL THEMSELVES ONE THEN!!! Get over it. He put himself in the FIRST TEE, which is all about ROLE MODELS.

You just said two posts ago that he brought good as a role model too. Good lord already.

 

[Harry Longshanks]

Okay, I didn't see these until someone quoted them and I know I'm going to regret stating the obvious, but I couldn't hold my tongue when I saw this.

IF a person puts a lot of stock into a pro athlete being a role model, and/or someone they want their kids to look up to, then that person is a moron who should have known better.

Any decent parent can show their kids who their real role models are.

I'll let you and everyone else guess who they should be.

No, NikeGolf, you tell us who the "real role models" should be. In your infinite and indisputable wisdom, if athletes should not be role models, then which human beings are so infallible that parents can designate them as role models to their children without any possibility of error?

Teachers? (Mary Kay Letourneau.) Astronauts? (Lisa Nowak.) Police Officers? (Stacey Koon.) Politicians? (Mark Sanford.) Priests? (does anyone really need a list here?) Or maybe only parents themselves are worthy of being a role model? (Andrea Yates.)

Of course Tiger was a role model. Of course he fostered that image for ego and profit. And of course parents and children looked up to him as a role model.

And your condemnation of anyone who allowed their children to look up to him as "morons" is perhaps the most absurd statement I've ever read here.

So tell us NG, if athletes are automatically excluded as potential role models, what category of people are worthy of being role models?

 

[NikeGolf]

So tell us NG, if athletes are automatically excluded as potential role models, what category of people are worthy of being role models?

I will agree w/ the notion that many adults shouldn't be role models. Such as teachers, cops, etc etc.

My answer to the role model question is easy.

Family. Parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters, etc.

Not every family is perfect, and some family members can be downright bad role models.

Even in a bad family environment, I would like to think a kid can look up to and learn good things from at least one or two family members, no?

Look, this is such a pretentious and overall, difficult issue. I, nor anyone else, has all the answers.

I do believe that pro athletes have no business being role models. I can say that for sure.

I'll agree that Tiger put himself out there as one, and now, that looks unbelievably hypocritical. I get that. I even agree w/ that. Shame on him for that.

 

[JB]

I will agree w/ the notion that many adults shouldn't be role models. Such as teachers, cops, etc etc.

My answer to the role model question is easy.

Family. Parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters, etc.

Not every family is perfect, and some family members can be downright bad role models.

Even in a bad family environment, I would like to think a kid can look up to and learn good things from at least one or two family members, no?

Look, this is such a pretentious and overall, difficult issue. I, nor anyone else, has all the answers.

I do believe that pro athletes have no business being role models. I can say that for sure.

I'll agree that Tiger put himself out there as one, and now, that looks unbelievably hypocritical. I get that. I even agree w/ that. Shame on him for that.

I have to say with all of this, one thing is clear. You look up to Tiger Woods and have for some time. Would that not make him a role model of sorts to you?

What if someone comes from a broken home? What if they have bad parents or very little family. For you to think that role models should ONLY be family is flat out false and you and I both know that you dont believe that either.

What this is, is the case that you have had him as your role model for a decade and he screwed up. But you like many, want him to be the man he was.

I will tell you a story, growing up I idolized two people, my father and Larry Bird. I wanted to be both of them and took the good from them and I think it has made me who I am. Am I a moron for looking up to Larry Bird? Are my parents for "allowing" me?

Bird is not a saint and has had his own issues, but I still looked up to him. I knew his faults and chose not to follow those. But he was my idol and still is. Millions chose MJ as their idol. He was not the greatest idol either I guess. Yet he chose to market himself as one.

Tiger is a role model and has been for you and millions of others. He screwed up and screwed up bad. We are forgiving and fickle as fans and many will return to him. But others will not, and why you have such a problem with that, I will never know.

 

[Harry Longshanks]

I will agree w/ the notion that many adults shouldn't be role models. Such as teachers, cops, etc etc.

My answer to the role model question is easy.

Family. Parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters, etc.

Not every family is perfect, and some family members can be downright bad role models.

Even in a bad family environment, I would like to think a kid can look up to and learn good things from at least one or two family members, no?

Look, this is such a pretentious and overall, difficult issue. I, nor anyone else, has all the answers.

I do believe that pro athletes have no business being role models. I can say that for sure.

I'll agree that Tiger put himself out there as one, and now, that looks unbelievably hypocritical. I get that. I even agree w/ that. Shame on him for that.

No NG. You said an entire category of people should not be role models: pro athletes. Some who have overcome hardship, broken color barriers, and made successes out of themselves. You said they, as an entire demographic, should not be role models. Because some of them aren't good role models.

And you did it for one purpose only - to avoid addressing an argument against Tiger Woods. Because if he is a legitimate role model, then his actions have actual consequences and people have reason to criticize him.

Now I want to know, in your estimation, what entire category of people are worthy of being role models?

And of those, if you happen to be wrong and one of them is fallible, can you criticize them? Or will you again, in hindsight, point to the parents and say it was the parents' fault for making the person a role model?

And if so, then tell us NG, without the benefit of hindsight, what people would you point to as role models because you are so certain that they will never let you or your children down?

Alternatively, you can just admit that you were wrong and that you are in love with Tiger Woods.

 

[thedue]

I don't get this. There are many great Pro Athletes our there that make fantastic role models. My GF Liz, as a teacher, see's parents every single day who have no business being a parent let alone a role model.

My own daughter developed diabetes at 8 years old and one of the KC Chiefs came to meet our family, sent us to many games, visited her in the hospital. She looked up to him like a God and so did I. I'm certainly glad he was a role model.

Role models are a must have in the inner Cities for obvious reasons.

 

[Harry Longshanks]

I don't get this. There are many great Pro Athletes our there that make fantastic role models.

Because if pro athletes can't be role models, then Tiger Woods wasn't a role model (or if he was, then it was the "moron[ic]" parents' fault and, therefore, people can't criticize Woods for his actions.

 

[NikeGolf]

I have to say with all of this, one thing is clear. You look up to Tiger Woods and have for some time. Would that not make him a role model of sorts to you?

What if someone comes from a broken home? What if they have bad parents or very little family. For you to think that role models should ONLY be family is flat out false and you and I both know that you dont believe that either.

What this is, is the case that you have had him as your role model for a decade and he screwed up. But you like many, want him to be the man he was.

I will tell you a story, growing up I idolized two people, my father and Larry Bird. I wanted to be both of them and took the good from them and I think it has made me who I am. Am I a moron for looking up to Larry Bird? Are my parents for "allowing" me?

Bird is not a saint and has had his own issues, but I still looked up to him. I knew his faults and chose not to follow those. But he was my idol and still is. Millions chose MJ as their idol. He was not the greatest idol either I guess. Yet he chose to market himself as one.

Tiger is a role model and has been for you and millions of others. He screwed up and screwed up bad. We are forgiving and fickle as fans and many will return to him. But others will not, and why you have such a problem with that, I will never know.

For the record, MJ was my guy growing up (do I have to use the word, "role model"?). I'm a bit late to the sport of golf, and a bit too old to hold Tiger in a light other than an awesome golfer.

That being said. I've come to hate this subject of "role models". Like I said, no one has all of the answers, and from what I remember about being a kid, I honestly don't know if I would have really cared if I knew MJ screwed around on his wife (which, come to find out, he did). I was a ten year old kid who loved to watch the guy play basketball. I would then go outside and shoot hoops and dunk the ball on the hoop that my dad built for me.

I wanted his shoes, shorts, shirts, etc etc. That had everything to do w/ him as a basketball player, not a person.

I got into golf about five years ago and liked Tiger, as a golfer. I didn't know him as a person, and I really didn't care. I still don't. I liked his golfing ability and the fire for the game that he has. MJ shared the same similar traits on the basketball court. That's what drew me to both guys. Not what kind of person they were off the course/court. I couldn't have cared less.

Does that not make sense? I mean that seriously. Can a ten year old kid not like an athlete because of what they do in their respective sport, rather than what kind of person they are?

I really believe it's the parents and adults making this a much bigger deal and problem than it really is. Ask little Johnny why he likes Tiger, or Lebron, or Kobe. I really doubt he's going to say, "because he is a good person", I bet it will go something more like "because he's awesome".

Why can't we leave it at that?

Yes, I know, in a way, Tiger put himself out there as someone the kids can model themselves after, and I already said that's a bad on him. It is. But to think the kids are going to be scarred by it is foolish.

 

[JB]

For the record, MJ was my guy growing up (do I have to use the word, "role model"?). I'm a bit late to the sport of golf, and a bit too old to hold Tiger in a light other than an awesome golfer.

That being said. I've come to hate this subject of "role models". Like I said, no one has all of the answers, and from what I remember about being a kid, I honestly don't know if I would have really cared if I knew MJ screwed around on his wife (which, come to find out, he did). I was a ten year old kid who loved to watch the guy play basketball. I would then go outside and shoot hoops and dunk the ball on the hoop that my dad built for me.

I wanted his shoes, shorts, shirts, etc etc. That had everything to do w/ him as a basketball player, not a person.

I got into golf about five years ago and liked Tiger, as a golfer. I didn't know him as a person, and I really didn't care. I still don't. I liked his golfing ability and the fire for the game that he has. MJ shared the same similar traits on the basketball court. That's what drew me to both guys. Not what kind of person they were off the course/court. I couldn't have cared less.

Does that not make sense? I mean that seriously. Can a ten year old kid not like an athlete because of what they do in their respective sport, rather than what kind of person they are?

I really believe it's the parents and adults making this a much bigger deal and problem than it really is. Ask little Johnny why he likes Tiger, or Lebron, or Kobe. I really doubt he's going to say, "because he is a good person", I bet it will go something more like "because he's awesome".

Why can't we leave it at that?

Yes, I know, in a way, Tiger put himself out there as someone the kids can model themselves after, and I already said that's a bad on him. It is. But to think the kids are going to be scarred by it is foolish.

Of course they can. but you just said yourself that MJ was your role model and you wanted to be just like him. I call bull if you want to say you only cared about him as a basketball player.

If you only cared about Tiger as a golfer, you would NOT CARE ONE LICK what others thought about his off the course actions. Yet you have 100 posts that say otherwise.

However you must remember that it was your guy Tiger Woods that told everybody in his ads and his sponsors and his association with First Tee, that he was the guy to look up to.

 

[Harry Longshanks]

Yes, I know, in a way, Tiger put himself out there as someone the kids can model themselves after, and I already said that's a bad on him. It is. But to think the kids are going to be scarred by it is foolish.

(a) not "in a way". He did. End of story. Also, way to change your position in the face of indisputable, ya know, facts.

(b) No you didn't say bad on him. You said parents are morons if they let their children look up to him as a role model. Also, way to change your position in the face of indisputable, ya know, facts.

 

[thedue]

NG, I've still not heard an answer regarding kids who MUST have roll models outside the family. What are they to do, just run with the gangs? I will honestly say that what Tiger was doing for those kids was a wonderful thing. A bit tough on them now, but can you imagine an inner city kid talking to Tiger? Jonathan Hayes was the Chief who I looked up to, way up, lol. Many kids need these people in their lives. Maybe they need veted like in politics, hehe

 

[Diane]

I think it's great that Gatorade is going to continue to work with the Tiger Woods Foundation. That's the important thing - don't you guys agree?

 

[KickaPoo]

I answer it very easily.

IF a person puts a lot of stock into a pro athlete being a role model, and/or someone they want their kids to look up to, then that person is a moron who should have known better.

I like him as a golfer, and that's the extent of it, and it always was.

It's really that simple.

Tiger himself said that he is/was a role model for kids in his last speech. like it or not, a lot of people DO consider some famous athletes as role models. and that certainly doesnt make them "morons"

 

[thedue]

I think it's great that Gatorade is going to continue to work with the Tiger Woods Foundation. That's the important thing - don't you guys agree?

Yes, from a funding standpoint. I don't know much about their roll in this, but any help is surely good help.

 

[JB]

Tiger himself said that he is/was a role model for kids in his last speech. like it or not, a lot of people DO consider some famous athletes as role models. and that certainly doesnt make them "morons"

Wait, but if Tiger thinks that an athlete can be a role model, would that not make him a moron? :confused2:

 

[NikeGolf]

Of course they can. but you just said yourself that MJ was your role model and you wanted to be just like him. I call bull if you want to say you only cared about him as a basketball player.

If you only cared about Tiger as a golfer, you would NOT CARE ONE LICK what others thought about his off the course actions. Yet you have 100 posts that say otherwise.

However you must remember that it was your guy Tiger Woods that told everybody in his ads and his sponsors and his association with First Tee, that he was the guy to look up to.

If MJ beat his wife, I would probably have been quite disappointed. If MJ got caught w/ drugs, I would have been quite disappointed. As far as not being a fan of his anymore? I probably wouldn't have had a choice because my dad probably wouldn't have allowed it. (see - role model example there?)

But, then I would have moved on to David Robinson, or someone else.

The point being, athletes should be viewed as just that, athletes, and nothing else. By kids and adults.

And hey, for Tiger saying he was the guy to look up to. I'll say shame on him for that. I have no problem saying that. That's kind of saying that because you're a gifted athlete, that you are a also a great person to look up to. And we all know, that's definitely not always the case.

Tiger shouldn't have said that at ANY point. Even if he wasn't cheating on his wife, and was a swell guy, he should NEVER have thought that about himself. No pro athlete should.

 

[NikeGolf]

Wait, but if Tiger thinks that an athlete can be a role model, would that not make him a moron? :confused2:

IF he thought that way, then I would have to say, yes.

 

[NikeGolf]

NG, I've still not heard an answer regarding kids who MUST have roll models outside the family. What are they to do, just run with the gangs? I will honestly say that what Tiger was doing for those kids was a wonderful thing. A bit tough on them now, but can you imagine an inner city kid talking to Tiger? Jonathan Hayes was the Chief who I looked up to, way up, lol. Many kids need these people in their lives. Maybe they need veted like in politics, hehe

Dude, c'mon. You gonna ask me how to balance the national budget next?

I will say though, that it's really a shame that some kids are almost forced to look at pro athletes as role models.

I don't have the answers for the kids in those positions. Who does?

 

[JPsuff]

JP, you couldn't understand why people felt the way they did about Tiger. I just explained it to you from my view and some others, yet you didn't like my view, so you come up with what sounds like a serious illness. I have no illusions about Tiger. Nor does Gatorade. Athletes are people to be looked up to, if they are great at what the do. Unfortunately, many young people can't separate what they do on and off the course in terms of right and wrong. Tiger is a very sick person that needs help, but to say he didn't understand what he was doing each and every time was wrong is just another attempt to keep him on that pedestal.

I will love watching him play golf, but will not cheer for him like I have in the past. He's an embarrassment to the game of golf, IMHO!

But any addiction IS a serious illness and to deny that is to trivialize it.

I'm not suggesting that Tiger doesn't understand the consequences of his actions now. All I'm suggesting is that he most likely was denying any consequences while he was engaging in his previous behaviors. It's the same thing as when a gambling addict blows the rent money on a bet. They see the aftermath, but they don't acknowledge any such consequence while they're actively "gaming".

That's an illness, not a conscious decision, a conscious deception or a "sham".

That's why I can hate what he did but not hate him for doing it. It has nothing to do with "pedestals", but has everything to do with recognizing that a person is suffering from an inability to control his desires - an addiction - a sickness. And I will not condemn someone for being sick.


-JP

 

[thedue]

Boy JP, I don't know that I can make the call on this being a sickness. I myself said he was very sick and needed help for his actions, but kind of re thinking it. If I got desperate and started robbing banks or embezzled from my company over and over, could I just chalk it up to an illness? Some can, most can't.

 

[Prinz]

Tiger was never ready to be such a huge role model. Success came too soon for him. In a way he, unconciously or not, deceived himself (along with many others) in thinking he was better/greater than he actually was. His arrogance was his downfall.

That being said, I believe his intentions are genuine and he means well in helping kids with his foundation. It is just too bad how he did not realize the selfishiness, foolishness, and arrogance his actions. If indeed he is sincere (which I think he is), I commend him so far for his courage in taking accountability for everything since his speech. I wish him the best in his journey to redemption... it will take him a lifetime.

Side note: Although Elin had all the reasons in the world to leave him, she is still by his side. This IMHO needs to be acknowledged. What a great woman!

 

[JPsuff]

Boy JP, I don't know that I can make the call on this being a sickness. I myself said he was very sick and needed help for his actions, but kind of re thinking it. If I got desperate and started robbing banks or embezzled from my company over and over, could I just chalk it up to an illness? Some can, most can't.

Addiction: The condition of being habitually or compulsively occupied with or involved in something.

Trust me on this one. I may not know much about Game Improvement golf clubs, but I know addiction.


-JP