Gerry Hogan's Theories On The Golf Swing vs Other

[WILDTHING]

Because Lane and Arlo are fervent supporters of Gerry Hogan's theories on the golf swing I thought it best to open up a thread to discuss them more fully without the need to disrupt other threads.

I have no doubts that some of Gerry Hogan's concepts might help certain golfers so there may be pros and cons worth discussing.

So go ahead Arlo and Lane , give us an overview of Gerry Hogan's philosophy concerning the golf swing.

If you are having a problem with giving us a brief overview , we could always follow the order in the book (I can only see from page 26 ).

THE SLOT

1st question - what is the SLOT?

 

[WILDTHING]

I don't think I'll get a response from Arlo and Lane but I might try and slowly decipher what I think Gerry Hogan is saying in his book . The manner in which he describes the golf swing (as well as the limited physics explanation regarding levers ) is quite vague and difficult to understand but I have spotted a few inaccurate assumptions he's made about what pro-golfers do. In my humble opinion the 'breaking wind' descriptions just seems like he's having a private laugh at the expense of the readers

 

[blugold]

I bought a used copy of the book last night for $8.54.

I plan on reading the book and getting an honest opinion on the actual text.

 

[Luchnia]

I don't think I'll get a response from Arlo and Lane but I might try and slowly decipher what I think Gerry Hogan is saying in his book . The manner in which he describes the golf swing (as well as the limited physics explanation regarding levers ) is quite vague and difficult to understand but I have spotted a few inaccurate assumptions he's made about what pro-golfers do. In my humble opinion the 'breaking wind' descriptions just seems like he's having a private laugh at the expense of the readers

Here is a quote from Gerry Hogan's book about the slot, "So how do you get your arms to fall into the slot? The answer to this question--and it is really the secret of the golf swing--is that you do it with your hands. If you can concentrate on having your hands in the right position, all other components of the downswing will fall into place of their own accord, without you having to worry about them."

Hogan is stating that the real secret to the golf swing is to get into the slot with your arms is to do it with your hands. He adds more to this later in the same chapter when he states that you have to jam your right elbow against your side and keep it there for as long as possible during the downswing. Apparently everything doesn't fall into place of their own accord as is stated. Jamming your elbow in your side would be part of the downswing.

 

[MarMill]

Sounds kinda like what Monte advocates if I remember correctly.

 

[MattyD-MPLS]

We can use this thread like a ghostbusters trap to contain them so they aren’t terrorizing other threads!

 

[WILDTHING]

Definition of the Slot when I google it says:

The slot is simply a position halfway into the downswing where the right elbow (for a right-hander) is tucked close to the right hip and the club is tracking a path to the ball from inside the target line.

Example of Jim Mcleans Slot Swing from Dr Mann's website:

What is the "slot swing"? Basically, the "slot swing" is simply the technique that a golfer uses to bring his clubshaft down-and-forwards in the direction of the ball during the early downswing. In his book , Jim McLean only uses drawings (superbly drawn by Phil Franké) and the following drawing depicts his concept of the "slot swing".



Jim McLean believes that the optimum golf swing requires a golfer to drop the clubshaft down into the imaginary "slot box" during the mid downswing, so that the clubshaft can move along an inside-out path towards the ball. This concept is fundamental to the idea that a golfer needs to generate an in-to-square-to-in clubhead path as depicted in the following photograph.

According to Jim McLean the clubshaft's path in the early-mid downswing must be neither too steep or too shallow, and he states that there is an acceptable corridor for the clubshaft's downswing passage in the early downswing.

----------------------------

So I suspect we now have a general pictorial idea of what a 'slot' is .

Gerry mentions Ben Hogan and the way he 'slotted' and I think it's similar to these images.



I think he wants the golfer to have a rigid connected unit (consisting of 'left & right arm/club') which drops from a higher plane at the top of the backswing to a lower one before any rotation of the torso. The drop apparently happens automatically by intended use of the hands to get into the required slot position but note that Ben Hogan is actually rotating his torso as that drop occurs (he doesn't wait for it to happen first). The 'rigid unit' is also leaving his ribcage which means its not just a vertical drop that happens before any upper torso rotation. The left arm seems to be moving 'down and out' and caused by a mix of upper body pivot where his left shoulder socket is pulling his arm around and is the 'Out' movement while his right elbow towards his right hip causes the 'down' movement.

 

[MattyD-MPLS]

 

[Hitsnmisses]

 

[Lane]

Sounds kinda like what Monte advocates if I remember correctly.

Why wouldn’t he . He called me years ago to discuss it with me ! Any instructor worth a plug nickel would know it is a necessary fundamental part to learning a proper swing !

 

[Luchnia]

Why wouldn’t he . He called me years ago to discuss it with me ! Any instructor worth a plug nickel would know it is a necessary fundamental part to learning a proper swing !

Yep, he called you and no doubt you set him straight about his bad teaching (or maybe not).

The problem is the two words "necessary fundamental." It is not a necessary fundamental part to learning the proper swing simply because you or Gerry Hogan say it is. You cannot define what a "proper" swing is for each and every person and so far you haven't and you won't be able to. Getting a club square to the ball can happen a number of different ways. Your opinions on something do not make it a fundamental, much less necessary.

If they help a golfer great, if not throw them to the side and move on to something that does help the golfer. Good instructors know what their student needs for improvement. There are good golfers who enjoy the game of golf who don't know anything about a slot and did not make it a necessary fundamental part of their swing when learning.

 

[Lane]

Because Lane and Arlo are fervent supporters of Gerry Hogan's theories on the golf swing I thought it best to open up a thread to discuss them more fully without the need to disrupt other threads.

I have no doubts that some of Gerry Hogan's concepts might help certain golfers so there may be pros and cons worth discussing.

So go ahead Arlo and Lane , give us an overview of Gerry Hogan's philosophy concerning the golf swing.

If you are having a problem with giving us a brief overview , we could always follow the order in the book (I can only see from page 26 ).

THE SLOT

1st question - what is the SLOT?

Wildthing -I do appreciate you putting this on for everyone to ACTUALLY learn from. However, it needs to be noted that Gerry would be FURIOUS that you used the word “ THEORIES “ concerning his 30 years of research ! Gerry is NOT interested in your opinion or my opinion. He despises THEORY IN GOLF INSTRUCTION! Everything in his life is THEORY and OPINION until he can prove to himself whether it is FACT or FICTION . And Gerry doesn’t care how long it takes to disprove it !
You don’t need me . You are doing a great job without me - and —- no one believes me anyway . But —-Example - even you have already put your own version on what Gerry said ! You see - this is how humans are , especially reporters .
I apologize for correcting you , but nowhere in his chapter , “ THE SLOT “ , does he state that , “ the drop apparently happens automatically “ ! In fact , on Pg. 28 - last paragraph , “ the answer is is to lock your hands in a position of right palm up and left palm down before the downswing begins - and to force your hands to maintain this ” unnatural “ position for as long as possible “
Their is nothing “ NATURAL “ about making that move, but it the KEY TO A PROPER SWING !
Also - in the pics of Ben Hogans DS - their is very little , if any , outward rotation of his shoulders in pics 1-4 . Obviously, in pic No. 5 almost at impact his upper torso / shoulders are forced in a last split millisecond to rotate to square the face !
Thanks for posting this . You can possible help millions of players who are desperately searching for these answers . We don’t need to look anymore !

 

[Lane]

Yep, he called you and no doubt you set him straight about his bad teaching (or maybe not).

The problem is the two words "necessary fundamental." It is not a necessary fundamental part to learning the proper swing simply because you or Gerry Hogan say it is. You cannot define what a "proper" swing is for each and every person and so far you haven't and you won't be able to. Getting a club square to the ball can happen a number of different ways. Your opinions on something do not make it a fundamental, much less necessary.

If they help a golfer great, if not throw them to the side and move on to something that does help the golfer. Good instructors know what their student needs for improvement. There are good golfers who enjoy the game of golf who don't know anything about a slot and did not make it a necessary fundamental part of their swing when learning.

Luchnia - actually , Monte called me to ask some questions and gain some knowledge about Gerry’s swing thoughts . I spent the next 30 minutes or so listening to his . Seems like a nice likeable guy , though ! I am very familiar with his thoughts !

 

[blugold]

Wildthing -I do appreciate you putting this on for everyone to ACTUALLY learn from. However, it needs to be noted that Gerry would be FURIOUS that you used the word “ THEORIES “ concerning his 30 years of research ! Gerry is NOT interested in your opinion or my opinion. He despises THEORY IN GOLF INSTRUCTION! Everything in his life is THEORY and OPINION until he can prove to himself whether it is FACT or FICTION . And Gerry doesn’t care how long it takes to disprove it !
You don’t need me . You are doing a great job without me - and —- no one believes me anyway . But —-Example - even you have already put your own version on what Gerry said ! You see - this is how humans are , especially reporters .
I apologize for correcting you , but nowhere in his chapter , “ THE SLOT “ , does he state that , “ the drop apparently happens automatically “ ! In fact , on Pg. 28 - last paragraph , “ the answer is is to lock your hands in a position of right palm up and left palm down before the downswing begins - and to force your hands to maintain this ” unnatural “ position for as long as possible “
Their is nothing “ NATURAL “ about making that move, but it the KEY TO A PROPER SWING !
Also - in the pics of Ben Hogans DS - their is very little , if any , outward rotation of his shoulders in pics 1-4 . Obviously, in pic No. 5 almost at impact his upper torso / shoulders are forced in a last split millisecond to rotate to square the face !
Thanks for posting this . You can possible help millions of players who are desperately searching for these answers . We don’t need to look anymore !

I did order the book and I am going to read it. But if I may, according to your post, the hand position is not natural and the golfer has to actively make a conscious decision to put their hands in that position and make the decision to slot the club. Am I misinterpreting that?

 

[RealPretendPsychic]

Wildthing -I do appreciate you putting this on for everyone to ACTUALLY learn from. However, it needs to be noted that Gerry would be FURIOUS that you used the word “ THEORIES “ concerning his 30 years of research ! Gerry is NOT interested in your opinion or my opinion. He despises THEORY IN GOLF INSTRUCTION! Everything in his life is THEORY and OPINION until he can prove to himself whether it is FACT or FICTION . And Gerry doesn’t care how long it takes to disprove it !
You don’t need me . You are doing a great job without me - and —- no one believes me anyway . But —-Example - even you have already put your own version on what Gerry said ! You see - this is how humans are , especially reporters .
I apologize for correcting you , but nowhere in his chapter , “ THE SLOT “ , does he state that , “ the drop apparently happens automatically “ ! In fact , on Pg. 28 - last paragraph , “ the answer is is to lock your hands in a position of right palm up and left palm down before the downswing begins - and to force your hands to maintain this ” unnatural “ position for as long as possible “
Their is nothing “ NATURAL “ about making that move, but it the KEY TO A PROPER SWING !
Also - in the pics of Ben Hogans DS - their is very little , if any , outward rotation of his shoulders in pics 1-4 . Obviously, in pic No. 5 almost at impact his upper torso / shoulders are forced in a last split millisecond to rotate to square the face !
Thanks for posting this . You can possible help millions of players who are desperately searching for these answers . We don’t need to look anymore !

 

[blugold]

View attachment 9035483

While a good use of the gif, I don't know if that is going to help further a conversation that might actually help some golfers.

 

[Lane]

Luchnia - actually , Monte called me to ask some questions and gain some knowledge about Gerry’s swing thoughts . I spent the next 30 minutes or so listening to his . Seems like a nice likeable guy , though ! I am very familiar with his thoughts !

Luchnia- correction - Monte never called me - I confused him with someone else with a similar name ! My apologies !

I did order the book and I am going to read it. But if I may, according to your post, the hand position is not natural and the golfer has to actively make a conscious decision to put their hands in that position and make the decision to slot the club. Am I misinterpreting that?

No sir- that is an absolute perfect description!
You are now on your way to vastly improving your swing ! Please keep me infi

 

[WILDTHING]

Lane

So Gerry is saying all you have to do is lock your hands at some position at the top and the 'hands/arms/club' unit will cause them to be pre-programmed to drop into the slot? He says "all you have to do as you swing the club down".

What does he mean 'as you swing the club down' ? How is he swinging the club down?






Here is the position of the locked hands at the top of the backswing which needs to be held as long as possible in the downswing.




The above seems to be very similar to TGM (see points 1-3 below) but vaguely worded to make it sound as if its his own idea. The only difference is that he suggests that at the top of the backswing , the left forearm is rotated (pronated) so much that the watch area faces the sky (but not so much that the clubshaft drops below the height of the hands)

1. Intact 'Left Arm Flying Wedge'
2. Intact ' Right Arm Flying Wedge'
3. Extensor Action.

Ah ha !!! Have now found another section about how to drop into the slot (I'll continue it in another post below)

 

[Lane]

Luchnia - actually , Monte called me to ask some questions and gain some knowledge about Gerry’s swing thoughts . I spent the next 30 minutes or so listening to his . Seems like a nice likeable guy , though ! I am very familiar with his thoughts !

Luchnia- correction - Monte never called me - I confused him with someone else with a similar name ! My apologies !

 

[WILDTHING]

Its the old '2 handed Karate chop' method which Tom Tomasello mentioned in one of his you tube videos . He also used the term 'DOWN AND OUT' which Gerry coincidentally is also using.

Don't get a warm feeling about all this as it seems to be a plagiarism of TGM swing style descriptions.

Also he says you must allow the "weight of your two arms and club" to drop from a higher to lower plane into the slot where the levers can work optimally in one plane . I presume this is the optimal slot position where the levers start unfolding. Gerry says Pro golfers don't allow this drop to happen before they rotate their torso but I've already posted some kinematic graphs in other posts that can prove this doesn't happen.






Here is Tom Tomasello (TGM expert taught by Homer Kelley) video and view it from 5:00 - 6:00 . Surprisingly similar to Gerry Hogan's wording in his book. Strange that Gerry's book was published in 1992 when this video was made .

Tom was very old in this video and dying of cancer but had taught this stuff many years prior to Gerry's publication.




If you look through the whole video there are a lot of similarities , like hitting the inner quadrant of the ball , the hands controlling the clubface, swinging the club out to 1st base , etc

 

[Lane]

Lane

So Gerry is saying all you have to do is lock your hands at some position at the top and the 'hands/arms/club' unit will cause them to be pre-programmed to drop into the slot? He says "all you have to do as you swing the club down".

What does he mean 'as you swing the club down' ? How is he swinging the club down?


View attachment 9035488

View attachment 9035489

Here is the position of the locked hands at the top of the backswing which needs to be held as long as possible in the downswing.

View attachment 9035490


The above seems to be very similar to TGM (see points 1-3 below) but vaguely worded to make it sound as if its his own idea. The only difference is that he suggests that at the top of the backswing , the left forearm is rotated (pronated) so much that the watch area faces the sky (but not so much that the clubshaft drops below the height of the hands)

1. Intact 'Left Arm Flying Wedge'
2. Intact ' Right Arm Flying Wedge'
3. Extensor Action.

Ah ha !!! Have now found another section about how to drop into the slot (I'll continue it in another post below)

Wildthing - maybe this will clear this up for you - as you probably already know most players suffer from the out and around over the to outside in swing which causes slices and pulls and many other problems . Here is why - their are two components of the swing that must be performed. Those are downward and around ! This simple intent of DROPPING your DOMINANT RIGHT HAND PALM UP AT THE VERY START OF THE DS causes the large powerful trapezius muscles that CONTROLS it’s large powerful scapula bone to pull it’s scapula back and down which allows your entire lever system - hands , arms and shaft to drop int the SLOT ( ( as Ben Hogan called it ) .
If that powerful starts it‘s rotation — FIRST then you can guess where your lever systems are going —-OUT OTT . They have NO choice but to .
Is Rahm dropping his hands down - right elbow into his right hip area ?

 

[V14_Heels]

Luchnia- correction - Monte never called me - I confused him with someone else with a similar name ! My apologies !

No sir- that is an absolute perfect description!
You are now on your way to vastly improving your swing ! Please keep me infi

What...oh my lord I just shouldn't engage in this post. I have absolutely no idea how this could possibly be true. You really think pros are "actively make a conscious decision to put their hands in a certain position and make the decision to slot the club?" I don't buy that.

I just don't get how if you do all the other sequencing right your hands don't automatically hit this "slot" I mean the hands are the last part of the downswing, so at that point how could one be actively making a conscious decision to put them there. If you've done something incorrectly with your legs, hip rotation, shoulders etc you're already screwed and ain't adjusting crap in that millisecond, It's gotta start WAY before that.

 

[V14_Heels]

Wildthing - maybe this will clear this up for you - as you probably already know most players suffer from the out and around over the to outside in swing which causes slices and pulls and many other problems . Here is why - their are two components of the swing that must be performed. Those are downward and around ! This simple intent of DROPPING your DOMINANT RIGHT HAND PALM UP AT THE VERY START OF THE DS causes the large powerful trapezius muscles that CONTROLS it’s large powerful scapula bone to pull it’s scapula back and down which allows your entire lever system - hands , arms and shaft to drop int the SLOT ( ( as Ben Hogan called it ) .
If that powerful starts it‘s rotation — FIRST then you can guess where your lever systems are going —-OUT OTT . They have NO choice but to .
Is Rahm dropping his hands down - right elbow into his right hip area ?

Err. Your picture doesn't show the downswing so how can we even begin to answer that question on whether he's dropping his hands down or right elbow into his right hip area?

 

[Lane]

Its the old '2 handed Karate chop' method which Tom Tomasello mentioned in one of his you tube videos . He also used the term 'DOWN AND OUT' which Gerry coincidentally is also using.

Don't get a warm feeling about all this as it seems to be a plagiarism of TGM swing style descriptions.

Also he says you must allow the "weight of your two arms and club" to drop from a higher to lower plane into the slot where the levers can work optimally in one plane . I presume this is the optimal slot position where the levers start unfolding. Pro golfers don't allow this drop to happen before they rotate their torso and I've already posted some kinematic graphs in other posts that can prove this doesn't happen.

View attachment 9035496


View attachment 9035498

Here is Tom Tomasello (TGM expert taught by Homer Kelley) video and view it from 5:00 - 6:00 . Surprisingly similar to Gerry Hogan's wording in his book. Strange that Gerry's book was published in 1992 when this video was made .

Tom was very old in this video and dying of cancer but had taught this stuff many years prior to Gerry's publication.

Wow- where was this when I wasted 20 years of my life chasing my dreams to play at a higher level, hitting thousands of range balls and dedicating most of my time . DrIving around the SE taking 70-80 lessons from instructors who had NO clue .
Gerry is the only person on the Planet who came at learning from a human genetics position . He took many lessons also to no avail and he dedicated years of his life using his brilliant skills to figure it out . He particularly wanted to know - what is the human capable of and NOT capable of and he figured it out .
Thanks for sharing the video . It could definitely help many players . Good stuff !

 

[Lane]

Err. Your picture doesn't show the downswing so how can we even begin to answer that question on whether he's dropping his hands down or right elbow into his right hip area?

V14heels - you have already stated that you disagree with it so why worry about it . You seem to already know the answers !
Good luck .