Gerry Hogan's Theories On The Golf Swing vs Other

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JonMA1

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My son goes to an instructor similar to what Lane promotes here. He is also an all or nothing type of guy. I listen in and my power/speed and effort have become more effortless in terms of motion. He's helped with grip to use the club as a lever and squaring up the club face efficiently. He has a great way of describing how the arms swing the club. He gets you in the same positions as my instructor but it's cause and effect.

But when I ask about lower body and positions and pressure, he shakes his head "no." I know positions are the effect of a cause but I think you need to see what's happening down there, and whether you are supporting the swing correctly.

I've concluded it's not all or nothing.;)
There is no one way to swing a golf club. Good players are good because they have certain attributes, work hard and maybe they've found an instructor who has helped with improvement. They can be very good golfers even with a swing that is not someone's idea of "text book".

I have no doubt Hogan's book has some good stuff in it. But the idea that everything in that book is relevant and accurate is just blind faith. Supporting that faith by making condescending posts towards others who wish to seriously discuss it does nothing but take away what might otherwise be an interesting topic.
 

Desmond

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There is no one way to swing a golf club. Good players are good because they have certain attributes, work hard and maybe they've found an instructor who has helped with improvement. They can be very good golfers even with a swing that is not someone's idea of "text book".

I have no doubt Hogan's book has some good stuff in it. But the idea that everything in that book is relevant and accurate is just blind faith. Supporting that faith by making condescending posts towards others who wish to seriously discuss it does nothing but take away what might otherwise be an interesting topic.
Agreed. Everything is a balance. Our entire body contributes to the swing in different and compatible ways.
 

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Here's a video with another opinion about Bryson's swing speed . Note that it is mentioned that the lats are connected in some places to the pelvis so maybe the lower body pivot is used to help in the stretch-shorten cycle within the kinematic sequence (ie. create a stretch between the pelvis/torso/shoulder girdle/ lead arm/wrist.

Remember in transition/early downswing that the lead shoulder socket gets moved in space by the use of the lower and upper body that pulls on the lead arm , which pulls on the lead hand , which pulls on the club. While all the latter is happening , the powerful left and right shoulder girdle muscles are also assisting in the down motion of the arms.



PS. Oops , looks like I've duplicated a video post.
 
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Hitsnmisses

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Agree as to lats -- I'm now learning to load the right lat. Gotta' go now - the weight machine is waiting impatiently for my lat workout.
See ya lat ter on ? 😀
 

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Here's a video with another opinion about Bryson's swing speed . Note that it is mentioned that the lats are connected in some places to the pelvis so maybe the lower body pivot is used to help in the stretch-shorten cycle within the kinematic sequence (ie. create a stretch between the pelvis/torso/shoulder girdle/ lead arm/wrist.

Remember in transition/early downswing that the lead shoulder socket gets moved in space by the use of the lower and upper body that pulls on the lead arm , which pulls on the lead hand , which pulls on the club. While all the latter is happening , the powerful left and right shoulder girdle muscles are also assisting in the down motion of the arms.

That video was shown earlier as an example of the "lower body just supports the upper body". Which it might. The biggest takeaways I get from that video:

1) Maybe there is different swing approaches for trying to generate as speed as possible versus trying to be as accurate as possible.

2) Great video for showing the importance of being strong in the legs and trunk. Stop doing side twisty things and start squatting and deadlifting.

3) It's a good thing golf courses are closed here so I can go and work on some of this without losing golf balls.
 
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blugold

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For the swing gurus, follow the link in this tweet to read some biomechanical nonsense.

 

Lane

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For the swing gurus, follow the link in this tweet to read some biomechanical nonsense.

Blugold- my opinion? This video is downplaying the “ ground forces / legs creating power “ theory which I believe is totally false ! So does the most knowledgeable human in golf , Gerry Hogan .
 
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Tevenor

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Blugold- my opinion? This video is downplaying the “ ground forces / legs creating power “ theory which I believe is totally false ! So does the most knowledgeable human in golf , Gerry Hogan .

 

blugold

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Blugold- my opinion? This video is downplaying the “ ground forces / legs creating power “ theory which I believe is totally false ! So does the most knowledgeable human in golf , Gerry Hogan .
There's no video in the tweet I shared.



20211201_063754.jpg

I mean, Bryson is doing a great job of using his driver swing to positively impact his scores better than any player on the PGA Tour right now.

20211201_063802.jpg

Rory has the second highest win percentage in the past 38 years.

The guy with the best winning percentage ever, lots of angle change in his right leg.
 

Luchnia

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This made me think about my old days in school. I remember after getting time outs, or disciplined at how many times it took before I got it. In most cases it only took one. I guess for some it has to be explained in different terms for the understanding to sink in.

To make a statement such as "most knowledgeable human in golf" as if it is matter of fact even after seeing other factual evidence to the contrary is what should really be shocking. That statement alone says there will never be any reasoning together with said individual due to the bias that is held.

So to refute any of GH's theories in the thread is sinking sand except for other posters that wish to discuss them. When one closes off most avenues of understanding that leaves them with little. The question might be asked, what makes one the most knowledgeable human in golf?

IMO there is no one singular person that holds most of the golf knowledge. There are some golfers many of which have been named that had/have an uncanny ability to strike a golf ball with a great amount of accuracy by doing it their own way which is factual evidence of no single source of knowledge.
 

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This made me think about my old days in school. I remember after getting time outs, or disciplined at how many times it took before I got it. In most cases it only took one. I guess for some it has to be explained in different terms for the understanding to sink in.

To make a statement such as "most knowledgeable human in golf" as if it is matter of fact even after seeing other factual evidence to the contrary is what should really be shocking. That statement alone says there will never be any reasoning together with said individual due to the bias that is held.

So to refute any of GH's theories in the thread is sinking sand except for other posters that wish to discuss them. When one closes off most avenues of understanding that leaves them with little. The question might be asked, what makes one the most knowledgeable human in golf?

IMO there is no one singular person that holds most of the golf knowledge. There are some golfers many of which have been named that had/have an uncanny ability to strike a golf ball with a great amount of accuracy by doing it their own way which is factual evidence of no single source of knowledge.
Well ? My opinion , nevertheless!
 

Luchnia

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Well ? My opinion , nevertheless!
I apologize to you if your second sentence was not presented as factually correct and just your opinion. I don't have anything other than his book to go on as to what he believes about the lower body relevance and how knowledgeable he is about the golf swing.
 

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I apologize to you if your second sentence was not presented as factually correct and just your opinion. I don't have anything other than his book to go on as to what he believes about the lower body relevance and how knowledgeable he is about the golf swing.
Thank you !
 

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Power originating from the lower body is not part of Gerry Hogan's instruction( this thread). Mr. Hogan points out that in order for the power of the golf swing to be generated from the lower body,that power would have to be transmitted (mechanics of power transmission) through the pelvic basin and lower lumbar, which is not possible.

If you wish to espouse power in golf swing originating in lower body, bulking up, heavy lifting, taking supplements, parenthood suggest you do so in other threads.
If power doesn't come from the ground up and according to you and G. Hogan "can't be trasmitted through the pelvic basin and lower lumbar", then Tiger's lower leg injury shoud in not impede him from swinging at the same speed as he previously did before his car crash.

Of course, Tiger's thoughts on ground forces and the lower body's role in developing speed might differ from G. Hogan.


“Explosive power starts from the ground up..flat-out, lower body initiated power…my legs and hips drive forward and my upper body simply unwinds.” –Tiger Woods
 
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If power doesn't come from the ground up and according to you and G. Hogan "can't be trasmitted through the pelvic basin and lower lumbar", then Tiger's lower leg injury shoud in not impede him from swinging at the same speed as he previously did before his car crash.

Of course, Tiger's thoughts on ground forces and the lower body's role in developing speed might differ from G. Hogan.


“Explosive power starts from the ground up..flat-out, lower body initiated power…my legs and hips drive forward and my upper body simply unwinds.” –Tiger Woods
Before he crashed his Genesis (my car) if Tiger's 5 spinal and knee surgeries havent convinced that golfers should not try to power golf swing from the lower body, then nothing will.
 

WILDTHING

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It is complicated trying to figure out how ground forces might influence how other body parts may be moved in the golf swing. Then once you've solved that riddle , you then need to figure out how (if any) those body movements influence the movement of the arms/wrists/club. When I say influence , it could mean body movements that might effect the range of motion of another body segment during the golf swing not just assist/resist in its movement (it could do both I suspect). I seriously doubt anyone , even Gerry Hogan, can say they have solved this enormously complex riddle while also providing the statistical evidence to back it up.
 

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It is complicated trying to figure out how ground forces might influence how other body parts may be moved in the golf swing. Then once you've solved that riddle , you then need to figure out how (if any) those body movements influence the movement of the arms/wrists/club. When I say influence , it could mean body movements that might effect the range of motion of another body segment during the golf swing not just assist/resist in its movement (it could do both I suspect). I seriously doubt anyone , even Gerry Hogan, can say they have solved this enormously complex riddle while also providing the statistical evidence to back it up.
Im sure if Sir Isaac Newton were posting here today, the trolls would be calling him out as "blowing smoke" ROFL.
Sir Isaac Newton solved the "so called complex riddle" , of forces and motion in 1687.

The three laws of motion were first stated by Isaac Newton in his Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica (Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy), first published in 1687.[2] Newton used them to explain and investigate the motion of many physical objects and systems, which laid the foundation for Newtonian mechanics
 
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V14_Heels

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Before he crashed his Genesis (my car) if Tiger's 5 spinal and knee surgeries havent convinced that golfers should not try to power golf swing from the lower body, then nothing will.
I literally have no idea what you mean by this point.

Tiger was DEFINITELY more successful and powerful as a golfer before 2008 when his surgeries started vs. after. Did he still win after them, absolutely, but I don't know if anyone on Earth could truly say he was more successful after 2008 than before. So taking your own point from above, if he was using his lower body to power the golf swing prior to 2008 we can say it obviously works, and wouldn't your overall point, be a strong point AGAINST Gerry Hogan's philosophy?
 

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I literally have no idea what you mean by this point.

Tiger was DEFINITELY more successful and powerful as a golfer before 2008 when his surgeries started vs. after. Did he still win after them, absolutely, but I don't know if anyone on Earth could truly say he was more successful after 2008 than before. So taking your own point from above, if he was using his lower body to power the golf swing prior to 2008 we can say it obviously works, and wouldn't your overall point, be a strong point AGAINST Gerry Hogan's philosophy?

“Explosive power starts from the ground up..flat-out, lower body initiated power…my legs and hips drive forward and my upper body simply unwinds.” –Tiger Woods

Follow the time line. When did Tiger make the above statement? When did he begin surgeries on his knee and spine?
 

V14_Heels

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“Explosive power starts from the ground up..flat-out, lower body initiated power…my legs and hips drive forward and my upper body simply unwinds.” –Tiger Woods

Follow the time line. When did Tiger make the above statement? When did he begin surgeries on his knee and spine?
I just said in my post the surgeries started in 2008, so already answered that one for you.

I have no idea how the timing of a public quote has any correlation at all to the point your trying to prove? Who cares when he said something publicly? He could have believed that from the age of 9, just because you found a public quote from 2019...I'm not sure what your point is here again? Are you saying the quote above reflect Gerry Hogans principles or doesn't? I legitimately don't understand your point. That's not condescending, it's not sarcasm, I just don't understand?

The heart of surgeries came after 2008. He had a little bit of fluid drained in 2002, but that was a pretty non invasive surgery compared to anything that came after 2008.
 

blugold

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Before he crashed his Genesis (my car) if Tiger's 5 spinal and knee surgeries havent convinced that golfers should not try to power golf swing from the lower body, then nothing will.
It's nice to see that we're moving on from "does the lower body power the swing" and now discussing "should the lower body power the golf swing?"

The latter is a much more interesting question.
 

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It's nice to see that we're moving on from "does the lower body power the swing" and now discussing "should the lower body power the golf swing?"

The latter is a much more interesting question.
No worries, Tiger did finally catch on.

“‘You can play from the wrong position for a long time with good hands, but eventually it’s going to catch up with you.” – Tiger Woods

There is NO SHOULD, DO.
Come back in a couple of years after powering your golf swing with the lower body
and let us know how it went. You might work on deadlift 300-400#+ to really put leg Force on the ball.
 
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blugold

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No worries, Tiger did finally catch on.

“‘You can play from the wrong position for a long time with good hands, but eventually it’s going to catch up with you.” – Tiger Woods

There is NO SHOULD, DO.
Come back in a couple of years after powering your golf swing with the lower body
and let us know how it went. You might work on deadlift 300-400#+ to really put leg Force on the ball.
When did Tiger make that quote? I don't think it supports what you think it does.

300lb-400lb deadlifts are not strength events for me.

I do agree that there has been an overemphasis on swinging with the lower body on modern golf instruction.
 
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