GI irons + higher spinning balls

Nick20UK

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 6, 2021
Messages
1,530
Reaction score
1,006
Hey everyone. My old Adams clubs are 16 years old, and although they are still perfectly fine I'd like to upgrade to a new set and start playing a bit more.

As someone who's currently looking round for a new set of GI irons, the stronger lofts definitely concern me a bit. I'm all for a bit more distance (gapping concerns around the wedges aside) but I don't want to sacrifice stopping ability on the occasions I hit the greens. I know the newer clubs still have decent height and descent angles via todays face technology but spin is definitely still an issue IMO.

So, would it work to combine strong lofted clubs with a higher spinning ball to give you that extra bit of backspin to help stop the ball? Maybe even with a high launch shaft as well.

Would the extra forgiveness counter the ball's extra sidespin, or would if be insignificant? It'd be nice to think that you could combine forgiveness, distance AND better stopping power when you do hit it well and onto the green.

P. S. I hope this is in the right place. Noob to the forum.
 
I think you are talking about 2 different things here. If you need the help of SGI irons maybe a High spin ball is detrimental to your game.

I wouldn't worry about the lofts of todays irons jus find a set that works for you and fire away!!
 
Cheers. My bad shot is a slice, decent shot is a small fade, and excellent shot is bullet straight. But I'm interested in this purely from a technical aspect, not just about my game specifically. A fitting and session on a launch monitor would obviously illuminate this topic for my specific game.

The main thing I'm concerned about in more general terms is backspin when hitting greens. Strong lofts will obviously counter this. Generally it's said a higher handicapper will benefit from extra height and descent angle to achieve this, which goes against the stronger lofts idea.

I've always hit the ball fairly high though tbh. My 16 year old old Adams clubs have higher launching graphite shafts and weaker lofts (33° 7 iron) so it's never been a problem stopping the ball in general.

I'm slightly worried if I choose a set that has a 26-30° 7 iron loft then I'm gonna struggle to stop the ball as effectively.

Just wondered if higher spinning balls would help counter this to any realistic real world extent.
 
The question that matters is whether you lose stopping ability from a given distance. I did not find that to be the case myself.

My older Titleist AP2 irons are supposedly high spin and have fairly traditional lofts (30 deg 6-iron) and no high COR face. That 6-iron is the club I’d use for about 150 yards approach. It will hold most greens with a little rollout but can release to much when they get really firm and fast.

My newer Callaway irons have stronger lofts and hot faces, purely distance irons. From 150 I hit the 31.5 degree 8-iron and it goes at least as high and stops probably more quickly on normal greens. Still releases a lot when they are rock hard of course.

Now of course the Callaway 6-iron is another matter. It comes in flat and hot no matter what ball I use. But it goes 20 yards longer. I don’t even have a club in the AP1 set that goes 165-170 yards. If I did it would not hold a green either.

Distance for distance I think if anything these newer distance irons stop slightly better. Not enough in it, really, to make any difference. FWIW I use a ProV1 or ProV1x no matter what irons.
 
I play the Cobra Forged Tecs, a players distance club. My 7i is 30°. I played the 712 AP2s where 7i was 35°. I hit my present 7i a good bit higher than the AP2 7 and the 7 has all the spin I need. Because of the tech advances, the lofts have to stronger because the launch windows of the new iron tech are so much higher than we’ve experienced before.

Get fitted if you can. If not, find a set that you hit well and have fun.
 
Cheers. My bad shot is a slice, decent shot is a small fade, and excellent shot is bullet straight. But I'm interested in this purely from a technical aspect, not just about my game specifically. A fitting and session on a launch monitor would obviously illuminate this topic for my specific game.

The main thing I'm concerned about in more general terms is backspin when hitting greens. Strong lofts will obviously counter this. Generally it's said a higher handicapper will benefit from extra height and descent angle to achieve this, which goes against the stronger lofts idea.

I've always hit the ball fairly high though tbh. My 16 year old old Adams clubs have higher launching graphite shafts and weaker lofts (33° 7 iron) so it's never been a problem stopping the ball in general.

I'm slightly worried if I choose a set that has a 26-30° 7 iron loft then I'm gonna struggle to stop the ball as effectively.

Just wondered if higher spinning balls would help counter this to any realistic real world extent.
Lofts are only one part of the equation. While loft generally reduces spin, one can have a lower loft and still launch higher.

To visualize this, take two drivers of similar loft, one with weight forward and one with it back. Despite same loft, launch and spin will differ greatly.
 
Here's my view: I switched from PING i20 to G425 (GI) and actually gained stopping power. (For the same loft.)
Especially in the shorter irons.
Now, I have moderate speed and spin, so I'm playing graphite (stock ALTA CB, 72g I believe) which helps with spin.
But I did have similar shafts in my i20s.

The G425s launch higher, which was expected. What I didn't expect, was that Trackman showed higher spin with G425 (while fitting).
So for me, going to GI was not a problem for stopping power. But you have to compare loft-to-loft, not the number on the club.
 
Some of the newer club offerings, whilst stronger lofted, performance wise launch higher and , descent angle is steeper , resulting in a stoppable ball .

l recently , start of this year have Mizuno Hot metals , their are several models in the range , and Mizuno don’t have standard range of shafts when selecting what fits so when going through fitting l was able to have the club fit for me .
Additionally, the quality and finish of the country of origin is superior to most .

Like others get advise try a lot, and get something, Fit for purpose and enjoy the pleasure of the purchase they don’t happen often, and then the fun of relearning the new toy 😄😄
 
Thanks.

I must have 15-20 different sets of irons shortlisted, plus One Lengths!! Don't think they'll be too happy if I ask to try every one of them :D
 
Hey everyone. My old Adams clubs are 16 years old, and although they are still perfectly fine I'd like to upgrade to a new set and start playing a bit more.

As someone who's currently looking round for a new set of GI irons, the stronger lofts definitely concern me a bit. I'm all for a bit more distance (gapping concerns around the wedges aside) but I don't want to sacrifice stopping ability on the occasions I hit the greens. I know the newer clubs still have decent height and descent angles via todays face technology but spin is definitely still an issue IMO.

So, would it work to combine strong lofted clubs with a higher spinning ball to give you that extra bit of backspin to help stop the ball? Maybe even with a high launch shaft as well.

Would the extra forgiveness counter the ball's extra sidespin, or would if be insignificant? It'd be nice to think that you could combine forgiveness, distance AND better stopping power when you do hit it well and onto the green.

P. S. I hope this is in the right place. Noob to the forum.
Thanks for asking this question. I've been pondering this myself as my current set of irons are Cleveland TA5's and are also nearly 20 year old tech. I been to the PGA SS and hit several brands of GI irons and have had a hard time trusting the trackers and their numbers. I'm thinking maybe I'll take my current 7 iron with me next time and hit it beside the newer tech and maybe that'll give me a better picture. But there's been a lot of great insight in some of these comments that have helped me understand a little better. Good luck and have fun with your iron search.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
 
I think it's also important to distinguish between two sort of mostly-overlapping things.

"Game Improvement" irons almost always have stronger lofts for a given number of club (7-iron, 8-iron, etc.) than "Players" irons along with wider soles, larger heads, bigger toplines, etc.

GI irons nowadays have high-COR faces to launch higher, spin less and produce greater ball speed.

The confusing part is that lots of sets marketed as "Players" irons ALSO have the hot faces. There have been all sorts of smaller profile, hollow body irons that don't look Game Improvement at all. But they are still optimized for distance rather than stopping power.

So keep that in mind if you're comparing to older (pre high-COR face) irons and you expand your shopping beyond the obviously GI or SGI models. There are still rigid face Players irons out there but that in-between "Players Distance" category is the biggest growth area in golf equipment lately.
 
I play a higher launching low spin iron set from 2018 with low spin balls and have zero issue stopping a ball on full swings. Normally it is dead where it lands. Saturday I was within 18 inches of the pin on #2 and likely had 2 ft of rollout. Ball goes in if I get 3.5 of rollout :)

If I play a higher spin tour ball I can sometimes back the ball up 5-10 foot but that is of no advantage to me becasue I'm not generally past the pin when I miss.

where spin might be more of an asset to me is in my wedge play but the true wedges I play are forged. I don't consider a 44degree club marked a PW as a true wedge. My wedges start at 52 degrees
 
What's on your shortlist?

I'm thinking that, if you're concerned about descent angle and too much spin with some of these newer loft jacked clubs, to also consider which ball would suit you better. Maybe your current gamer isn't going to do well off of a hotter face; maybe it will do better...

If you're getting fitted for irons, get fit for a ball as well... Bridgestone has their online fitting... video your swing, send it to them, and they'll recommend you which one of their balls should suit your game.
 
Lol I don't think I'm quite at the level where I get fit for balls yet!

Irons shortlist?........

TaylorMade - M4, M6, SIM2 Max
Callaway - Apex 21 DCB, Rogue, Mavrik, Big Bertha B21
Titleist - T300
Ping - G425
Cobra - F9, Speedzone, Radspeed (One Lengths too)
Mizuno - JPX Hot Metal
Cleveland - Launcher UXB (Love the lofts on the bottom as well as the number)
Wilson - D9

I already have an MD Superstrong 60° lob wedge so probably a Callaway 288 RTX 2.0 54° to use as a sand wedge and to help cover the gap between that and AW/PW.

Really want a TaylorMade M3 Hybrid too. Love that adjustable draw weight.

Balls - I used to play ProV1s and Bridgestone e6 softs. Now looking at Bridgestone e12 Contact, Srixon AD333 and maybe Volvik Vivid.
 
Last edited:
I play Cobra Forged Tecs and I have no problem with getting a ball to stop with my wedges and I am a 20+.

Love ChromeSoft and Srixxon Tour divides but hate ProV1's which are way too spinny for me.
 
The safest bet is probably the Pings. Almost everyone can hit good shots with the G-series and their stock steel shafts are solid.

I’d love to see you get the Clevelands and tell us how they work, I don’t know anybody who’s had those yet😏
 
Lol I don't think I'm quite at the level where I get fit for balls yet!

Irons shortlist?........

TaylorMade - M4, M6, SIM2 Max
Callaway - Apex 21 DCB, Rogue, Mavrik, Big Bertha B21
Titleist - T300
Ping - G425
Cobra - F9, Speedzone, Radspeed (One Lengths too)
Mizuno - JPX Hot Metal
Cleveland - Launcher UXB (Love the lofts on the bottom as well as the number)
Wilson - D9

I already have an MD Superstrong 60° lob wedge so probably a Callaway 288 RTX 2.0 54° to use as a sand wedge and to help cover the gap between that and AW/PW.

Really want a TaylorMade M3 Hybrid too. Love that adjustable draw weight.

Balls - I used to play ProV1s and Bridgestone e6 softs. Now looking at Bridgestone e12 Contact, Srixon AD333 and maybe Volvik Vivid.
My last set of irons were TM Burner 2.0's. I was lusting for a set of Titleist T400's... budget constraints (and being left handed) meant I couldn't find a set of those in my price range... so I went for Callaway Mavrik Max irons. I gained 10 yards per club for the most part... but the loft of the clubs compared to my previous irons, means I'm hitting one more club than previously... so my TM 7i is my Mavrik 6i. Meh. I don't care. They're shiny and forgiving.

There's a ball for everyone. Soft, firm... spinny, not spinny. 2 colored.(y)
 
I have used Ping G20s in the past and they hit a nice high ball. I currently am using the Mizuno JPX919HMs and the hit a nice high ball as well.
 
In the interests of selecting the best club for yourself..... yes you should 😂😂😂😂😂🤗🤗🤗🤗
 
Hey again. A month later, and after life and a new car getting in the way of all things golf, I finally got back into sorting this again.

Went for a free fitting at an American Golf, mainly just to be able to try a few brands on a launch monitor with no obligation.

My old clubs were Adams with graphite shafts, and I was launching the 7 iron around 90 to 100 feet peak height. I was getting neck strain looking at the ball flight at the range! So steel shafts were an easy selection.

Swing speed with a 7 iron was around 80mph so he told me I was on the cusp of stiff shafts. Now, I know from research that feel is more important than speed for shafts and there's no correlation really for speed/flex, but I tried both regular and stiff and I found the stiff gave me a bit better feel through the swing for what the club head was doing. Dispersion tightened slightly too. So I went for stiff for the better feel and sense of control. He mainly used a KBS Tour 90, but he did accidentally put a head on a KBS 110 and tbh I didn't notice much difference. 90 has a lower kick point for better launch but I was getting identical peak height of 37-38ft.

Onto club-heads:

Tried SIM2 Max OS and found they were too chunky and heavy. The regular SIM2 felt ok but nothing special.

Callaway Mavrik Max next, and they were fine but again nothing special. Shame as I love the styling on those.

Then tried the Cobra Radspeed. And oh boy were they hot off the face. Swing weight felt great and were very forgiving with every kind of contact (which is good because I'm about as consistent as an Andy Dalton/Bengals performance). My old 7 iron was going 135-140. These were going 160-165. :p Height was down to around 38ft. I forgot to check descent angle but spin was around 5500. Okay-ish.

Then tried the Rads in One Length and got on really well with both the 5 and 9 iron. I was looking forward to hitting these as my longer irons are extremely inconsistent. These felt much more stable and repeatable, so was very tempted to buy them there and then!

Ultimately I spent loads of time on the Radspeed and One Lengths as they so felt nice, and didn't get time to try any Pings, Callaway Apex/Rogue or Mizunos, so will go and pay for a fitting at a proper golf academy not far from me and make sure I hit those. They have a good rep for fittings so it'll be interesting to see what direction they send me in compared to the retail outlet freebie fitting. To be fair the guy at American Golf seemed to have decent knowledge and he certainly got me into a great feeling iron, so no complaints with the service really for a free fitting. I'd have liked to have dived further into the data on the monitor with regards launch/descent angles and backspin, but they don't really focus on that as a retail outlet.

Looking forward to the proper paid fitting now. I really enjoyed the experience. Even if it was a little daunting having my swing watched by a decent player/fitter for an hour. Every time I fatted it or sliced/hooked it I was pissed with myself even more than normal.

Ultimately nothing that interesting really! Just wanted to get my thoughts down and share the experience.
 
Last edited:
The safest bet is probably the Pings. Almost everyone can hit good shots with the G-series and their stock steel shafts are solid.

I’d love to see you get the Clevelands and tell us how they work, I don’t know anybody who’s had those yet😏

Lots of write ups on here regarding the Launcher Hb's. I love mine. Very easy to hit, I get good spin, high launch and they hold the greens great.
 
It was more distance control than stopping power for me.

When I went to more modern irons I started having a low spin ball jump on me. I usually hit a 9i 130 yards and would now and then just sail it like 150. It started getting in my head. All of my short/middle irons would do this occasionally.

I've gone to a higher spin ball and so far haven't had any of these absurd flyers.

Of course, it could just be in my head.
 
The "loft jacking" people get concerned with is to keep the ball from going to high in relation to the design of the club head. The thicker soles and weight moved lower and back will create more loft. Even if it reduces spin the ball flight will be high enough to produce a landing angle allowing it to stop.
 
Final update after the paid fitting by a PGA Pro.

Tried the Apex DCB, Titleist T300 and Ping G425. The Callaway was a really nice club, but after going back to the Cobra Radspeed in the One Lengths I couldn't get away from them. Fantastic clubs, and the 3D printed face technology really explodes the ball off the face.

So have ordered a set of those. 5-SW including AW. Just got to wait for them to be made now as I needed the lie angles changed 1 deg flat.

I hit the One Length 4 hybrid too and that was a fantastic club. Can easily see me buying a 3H at some point too. So easy to hit too because of the shorter shaft.

If I wasn't sold on the One Lengths I probably would have gone Apex as they're great feeling heads too and was the longest one I hit.

Oh and shaft was a Stiff 105g. I can't remember which though annoyingly. Thought it was an AMT but can't see they do one in 105g. Could have been the Modus.
 
Back
Top