Good or bad course

Templet0n

washed...
Albatross 2024 Club
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Jun 7, 2019
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Reno, NV
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snow..
Our side of poor conditions what in your mind makes a course good or bad?

Let’s assume that conditions are a non factor.

Sorry misspelled course.. I am not sure if a mod can fix the title..
 
Boring design is probably the biggest factor. Lots of straightaway holes, all the par 3s are the same length, greens are overly simple. Aesthetics & location play a role, a good course next to a water treatment plant can quickly become a less good course. Lastly, a course with good conditions and a miserable staff or no amenities whatsoever will be a place that is hard to call good or that I would look forward to playing at consistently.
 
Same kind of hole over and over. Poor time management/cramming people on, no enforcement of pace of play
 
I will say one feature I am not a fan off is forced carries off the tee on par 4sand 5s.
 
A couple of things I see a lot around here that make a poor course:
  • All the par-3s being the same length. Sure, I like hitting 8-irons to par-3s, nice comfortable distance, but not on every one. :banghead:
  • Tee boxes that aren't aligned to the fairways/target line. Not just the markers, but the tee box points you towards a hazard or OB, and then they align the markers to the tee box. :surrender:
 
The same style of holes over and over. Variety is what I think makes a good course, it doesn't need to be 18 different holes but not just the same design style over and over.
 
A bad course for me has very narrow fairways, where off the fairway is a lost ball due to the overgrown natural Fauna (IE Sand Canyon). A good course has some challenges, but not impossible challenges for a bogey+ golfer.
 
Jam packed tee times are brutal. Makes for a slow round of 5+ hours. Takes the fun out of it no matter the course conditions.
 
Jam packed tee times are brutal. Makes for a slow round of 5+ hours. Takes the fun out of it no matter the course conditions.

That’s not always due to course design though.
 
I'll echo what's already been said. The same hole layout (straight and same distance) over and over. Even though I hate dogleg left holes they're a good challenge so it's good to see them. I can't think of any overly boring courses around here...maybe the par 3 course is close, but there's only so much that can be done with a par 3 course.

Not a design issue, but another thing that automatically makes a course bad is a rude staff. My hometown has two courses, an older executive course and a newer, longer course. The clubhouse staff at the bigger course is so amazingly rude that quite a few locals have gone back to getting memberships at the smaller course again.
 
Greens that aren't... more like browns. Or with patches of grass missing.
Fairways that are more weeds than grass.
Deadfall trees not cleaned up.
Trees that have been trimmed and the remains are left in between fairways.
Signs that aren't kept up... ie a sign falls over and it's not taken care of
Trash cans that aren't emptied for days.
Infrastructure that is left to rot... like retaining walls that are falling apart.

I can deal with the boring layout, and par 3's the same distance but if a course is ragged around the edges and it isn't brought back to its former glory, that makes a bad course to me.
 
I’m no course design purist, so all I really look for are holes that are fun to play. I dislike a course with straight back and forth holes and I’m not a fan of too many blind tee shots and approaches.
 
Just lack of variation.

Like when @Cruskater said he was going to Vegas and playing at Bali Hai. I said I like playing there out of convenience, but that it's fun too. Part of that is the layout changes. I mean, you could debate that a par 4 is it actually a 5, a 4 a 3, and everything in between, but I'm not hitting driver/3W - partial wedge on every par 4, and the same club on every par 3, same dogleg on every par 5, and on and on. Mix it up and I'm probably okay with the rest. Except a bunch of blind tee shots or approaches. That's great for longtime members, maybe, for everyone else it's just straight stupid. It's more gimmick than anything else.
 
A poor course to me is a course that is cheaply maintained. Managed by cheap owners, who charge too much. No sand in bunkers. Not mowed on a regular basis. Dead grasses. Ratty golf carts. Stuff like that.

Layout is not a big deal to me. It is what is, and I still need to play it accordingly.
 
I'll restate the obvious. Course maintenance and water are a must. Unless I am paying less than $1 per hole I do expect grass on the tee, greens, and fairways. I generally play really well at high end daily fee, resort, and private courses. My guess is it's the conditioning. Last summer was rather hot and dry in the Northeast and a lot of rough turned into bare hardpan.

I'm also looking at good layouts. I like a mix of holes, doglegs, etc. Good tee box choices also. It is fun to drive a green once in a while and I also don't mind driver 3 wood once and a while as well. I would not want awfully long approaches especially since I flight my long irons low. There's a nice course in Central Mass. called Blissful Meadows. Well maintained with a mixture of holes. Flat front and hilly back with two holes over a canyon that was an old silver mine. Fun the first time you play it and still intriguing after many times. My wife and I are looking at joining a club but she likes variety and playing different courses, so we would either need the rare northeast club with multiple courses or different tee boxes and angles to make it interesting daily.
 
Many people have already said it. Poor design leads the way. I can't stand a course where every par 4 is a drive and an 8 iron or less! Conditioning comes second. There was an absolutely spectacular course in NE Ohio called Thunder Hill. It used to be a fish hatchery, so there was no lack of water. It was designed and built by the owner of the property, and he did a fantastic job! It's quite a drive away from home, but when I started running a sales route in that area, I made sure to look it up.

I pull into the parking lot, and there are only a couple of cars, but there are workers in carts everywhere! I walk in and meet the new head pro. His group has either leased, or bought, the course and are spending about $3.5 Mill on it! Curbed concrete cart paths, new driving range, clubhouse upgrades, and they drained and filled all the "stupid" ponds. Some of them were dead in the middles of fairways and you couldn't see them from the tee! So I asked when they would open, and went up and played several times.

I loved that course! It was the most unique course I have ever played. Every hole felt like it was the only golf hole on the planet, yet it wasn't routed like some of these modern courses where you can have a 3/4 mile hike from green to the next tee! There was a par 3 with a green nearly an acre in size! Depending on where they cut the pin, could make a 5-6 club difference! My avatar shows an approach shot on one of the par 4's.

Then, in the early days of Golfnow, I see Thunder Hill on there for a "spit" price, and I talk a couple of buddies to go up there with me. When we reach the driveway I see a for sale sign with the name of a bank on it! Oh, crap! They're in receivership! There are maybe 5 or 6 cars in the lot. We pay and start our round. The greens and fairways were half burned out, and the bunkers were filled with weeds. Life and drop from them. After the round my buddies told me that they could understand why I liked the course in the past, but the current conditioning was just horrendous!
 
Sorry but conditions in the course ranges I play plays a huge part. I’ll take a non-sh***y conditionioning over a really nice layout that you are in every hole in the ground.
 
Multiple blind tee or approach shots make for a poor course in my opinion (falls under course design I suppose). I don't mind one or maybe two, but when every other hole is "hit and hope" it gets old real quick.
 
Bad course to me is one that as soon as you are off the fairway the rough is so deep you can see a ball. There needs to be a first and second cut.
 
Courses that you finish playing and literally can't remember the holes, the order they were in, and were never tempted to pull out your phone and take a photo - those are baaaad courses.
 
I like a lot of trees and water - even though I lose a lot of balls to both. I like elevation changes, and the occasional wtf element - like a big tree left in the fairway. A variety of lengths on par 3 are preferable as others have posted... for that matter, a variety in general is preferable.

The only pet peeve I have - and this is more a condition than a design element - is when piles of brush and trimmed branches are left in the trees.
 
I'm pretty tolerant of courses. It's more the tee times crammed together making for too long of rounds that is annoying and bad to me. I also think too many gimmicky holes is bad and not something I like to play much.
 
I do not like courses with "gimmicky" holes - holes with bunkers in the middle of the fairway, or trees that restrict your shot to the green from the fairway. Pin placements that are impossible.
I think good courses make your day enjoyable from the time you arrive, to when your round is over, simple courtesies, a smile maybe, a friendly ranger (haven't seen a ranger in years), etc...
 
Boring design is probably the biggest factor. Lots of straightaway holes, all the par 3s are the same length, greens are overly simple. Aesthetics & location play a role, a good course next to a water treatment plant can quickly become a less good course. Lastly, a course with good conditions and a miserable staff or no amenities whatsoever will be a place that is hard to call good or that I would look forward to playing at consistently.
Depends primarily what level / standard of treatment would be at the plant and if they are using the treated water to irrigate the course , which would be in pristine condition ,, nutrient rich water )( yes l work in the industry and there is good and bad )
 
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