Has purchasing a driver become too complicated for the average person?

Proper fit as in how? you always hit a slice so you adjust it so that you don't have to fix your swing? What's wrong with just practicing to fix whatever your adjusting on the driver?

Thats not really what fitting does. It maximizes your equipment through loft, length and lie to determine what works best on great contact and not so great contact. But again, nobody has to adjust anything. Just know that fitting has always been there, it just happens to be easily accessible for the masses now at an affordable way.
 
Now this is part of what I meant that could possibly happen to someone.
Now, "for-left" can be educated and offered advice and gain a better understanding and in fact learn a lot about it all from many sources including a lot of us right here. And may in the end even see its not that big of a deal after all just as you do now. But none the less he (if Im not mistaken) is a bit lost or confused right now and perhaps abit intimidated by all the adjustments and what have you. It could be a deterrent that prevents him from making that purchase if it wasn't already. May be even only temporary but he'll have to go through a bit of a process with some learning curve before continuing. Not nearly as simple as he thought when he walked into the store.

I walked into the store wanting a new driver with a standard flex shaft and 10.5 degrees of loft. I don't need a draw bias adjustment...or a fade adjustment.....or extra weight.....or another tool I need to carry in my bag to fix whatever is wrong with my drives that day....if something wrong with my swing in regards to my driver that day I want to be able to learn....and fix....and work at....and practice.....fixing whatever it is that is wrong throughout my round....maybe I'm in the minority as it seems but I just want to put work into the sport instead of having some extra technology (which costs extra and makes driver ungodly expensive) to bail me out.
 
I think the "go-it-alone" golfer may struggle, but is it THAT much different from buying a car? Crazy amounts of options, crazy amounts of tech you can't immediately see, and you rely on a salesman to point you in the right direction after experiencing your needs.

I'm firmly of the believe that golfers can never have too many options.... but I believe they need to be encouraged to spend the time understanding before diving into the first club they hit in a sim at a big box.
 
Proper fit as in how? you always hit a slice so you adjust it so that you don't have to fix your swing? What's wrong with just practicing to fix whatever your adjusting on the driver?

The majority of fittings are to accommodate a current swing. Most amateurs don't have the time, money, or desire to get better. At THP we are a different bunch, most of us here are working towards getting better, but that's not representative of the average weekend player. They want to go out and enjoy the game as much as possible, which means ball in play. New technology is at a point where fitters can fit a golfer to help mask a miss. It's a great time to be a consumer.

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Thats not really what fitting does. It maximizes your equipment through loft, length and lie to determine what works best on great contact and not so great contact. But again, nobody has to adjust anything. Just know that fitting has always been there, it just happens to be easily accessible for the masses now at an affordable way.

Ok I'm catching on now....so why the "draw" or fade" bias?
 
Ok I'm catching on now....so why the "draw" or fade" bias?

That is there for how a club is delivered at the ball. Some golfers come in closed and some open, this option CAN help a club head be delivered square.
 
That is there for how a club is delivered at the ball. Some golfers come in closed and some open, this option CAN help a club head be delivered square.

so why not just work on that at the range....on your own time....to become better instead of counting on the club to do it for you......
 
Totally agree with the OP on this particular subject. I currently am gaming a Callaway diablo edge in my bag for my driver.....pretty old club...works for me....but I was ready for a refresher. Wife gave me the go ahead and I started looking and doing some research...went to a local big box store and looked at some. Hit a couple and enjoyed them....but then they started selling me on the "technology" of the club....what happened to the days of buying a driver that didn't need to be adjusted to fit your swing? What happened to the days where you actually had to practice and get lessons instead of having to adjust this or add weight to that to keep the ball in play? What happened to the days where I could just buy a regular flex shaft with a 10.5* loft without any adjustment aside from me adjusting my swing for where I'm hitting it that day?

The problem with this argument is that you can in fact have it just like the old days. But, if you are so inclined, you can also have it like today where the clubs are fitted to each golfer to maximize their performance. It's not to fix swing flaws, it's to optimize the shot conditions to make your club the longest and most accurate for you. It comes down to "do I want a better product at the cost of a little research and time" or "do I want anything off the rack and a prayer that my hard earned dollars were spent 'wisely'."
 
so why not just work on that at the range....on your own time....to become better instead of counting on the club to do it for you......

Because its not something that needs fixing. Every player has a unique swing and virtually nobody on the planet comes in exactly the same way. Tour Players have been using fitting and club head manipulation through offset/onset and open/close for decades. Now it happens to be available to the masses and due to technology is easier than ever to have fit for the golfer.
 
Totally agree with the OP on this particular subject. I currently am gaming a Callaway diablo edge in my bag for my driver.....pretty old club...works for me....but I was ready for a refresher. Wife gave me the go ahead and I started looking and doing some research...went to a local big box store and looked at some. Hit a couple and enjoyed them....but then they started selling me on the "technology" of the club....what happened to the days of buying a driver that didn't need to be adjusted to fit your swing? What happened to the days where you actually had to practice and get lessons instead of having to adjust this or add weight to that to keep the ball in play? What happened to the days where I could just buy a regular flex shaft with a 10.5* loft without any adjustment aside from me adjusting my swing for where I'm hitting it that day?

I walked into the store wanting a new driver with a standard flex shaft and 10.5 degrees of loft. I don't need a draw bias adjustment...or a fade adjustment.....or extra weight.....or another tool I need to carry in my bag to fix whatever is wrong with my drives that day....if something wrong with my swing in regards to my driver that day I want to be able to learn....and fix....and work at....and practice.....fixing whatever it is that is wrong throughout my round....maybe I'm in the minority as it seems but I just want to put work into the sport instead of having some extra technology (which costs extra and makes driver ungodly expensive) to bail me out.

technology and fittings aren't going to make fix a swimg flaw. It's there to reduce the ill affects of someone's swing. Instead at a ball losing a large amount of distance there are drivers that will help maintain better ball speed or keep spin close to what is seen on center contact which helps keep a ball in play for some or keeps them close to what their normal good drive is. Someone with a swing flaw that wants to work on their game can still play an adjustable driver and may not need to adjust much if they choose not to or maybe that same golfer wants the ability to reduce loft on a windy day.

there are lots of golfers who aren't going to work on their games and the adjustability along with other technology allows them to play the game and enjoy it because their miss isn't as bad compared to their old driver. There are plenty of golfers who I have seen get fit in an adjustable driver and never change the setting.
 
The problem with this argument is that you can in fact have it just like the old days. But, if you are so inclined, you can also have it like today where the clubs are fitted to each golfer to maximize their performance. It's not to fix swing flaws, it's to optimize the shot conditions to make your club the longest and most accurate for you. It comes down to "do I want a better product at the cost of a little research and time" or "do I want anything off the rack and a prayer that my hard earned dollars were spent 'wisely'."

is the draw or fade setting not to fix swing flaws? I am just trying to educate myself as I am trying some more this weekend and would like to get a good feel for how this particular technology works. And I don't think it's just at the "cost" of a little research...driver prices have gone up exponentially since this new technology was added.
 
driver prices have gone up exponentially since this new technology was added.

This is not really accurate FWIW. If you look at the cost of drivers when metal woods came out and adjust merely for inflation, the cost is actually down. We saw drivers in the $399 and $499 price range over a decade ago in things like Liquid Metal, etc. As materials cost went down, driver prices went down and $299 and $399 became the norm. Then new materials such as tungsten and composites were found to assist and prices have adjusted accordingly.

Its not to discount that these are low cost clubs, just that the costs have not gone up really. Especially not compared to the rest of consumer goods.
 
is the draw or fade setting not to fix swing flaws? I am just trying to educate myself as I am trying some more this weekend and would like to get a good feel for how this particular technology works. And I don't think it's just at the "cost" of a little research...driver prices have gone up exponentially since this new technology was added.

And let me add that there are never bad questions, if you have some, ask away or start a new thread and people will help you here. Its the THP Way.
 
is the draw or fade setting not to fix swing flaws? I am just trying to educate myself as I am trying some more this weekend and would like to get a good feel for how this particular technology works. And I don't think it's just at the "cost" of a little research...driver prices have gone up exponentially since this new technology was added.

Those settings are to help with what might be a prevalent miss. So here's how you educate yourself for those options, answer this question... would my regular flight benefit from additional draw or fade assistance? Bam, solved!

I'll defer to JB on the cost aspect.

And once again, you don't have to use these additional features. Find a driver in the specs you want, set it how you like and hope for the best. If you want to actually get the best, educate yourself on different features and go get fit by a legitimate fitter. The only downside is time spent and the upside is the confidence of a driver spec'd for you.
 
Those settings are to help with what might be a prevalent miss. So here's how you educate yourself for those options, answer this question... would my regular flight benefit from additional draw or fade assistance? Bam, solved!

I'll defer to JB on the cost aspect.

And once again, you don't have to use these additional features. Find a driver in the specs you want, set it how you like and hope for the best. If you want to actually get the best, educate yourself on different features and go get fit by a legitimate fitter. The only downside is time spent and the upside is the confidence of a driver spec'd for you.

I appreciate the feedback and helping me try to understand.....so after a fitting for a driver....that is spec'd for me personally is it a "set it and forget it" type of device or is the fitter capable of knowing my tendencies throughout an 18 hole round thru the fitting itself..therefore the driver is able to fix those flaws...?
 
I would say it IS complicated IF you don't have any idea what all the different models do and how that compares to your own game. If I didn't care to understand anything and basically was just picking a driver based on looks alone I would without a doubt have a Callaway Big Bertha Alpha 816 DBD. I think that is by far the coolest looking driver on the planet...however it is WAY wrong for me. So instead I have the XR 16 which I think is pretty darn ugly BUT it works awesome for me.
 
I can't fkn imagine how those people must feel shopping for new cars lol
Well if car manufacturers wouldn't release so many stinking models every year ... they flood the market with too much product!
 
I see where the OP is coming from. Let's use my neighbor "Joe" (names have been changed to protect the guilty) Joe likes golf in a "I'll watch part of the Masters, and maybe once or twice a month I'll go play" kinda way. Joe does not know that getting fit for clubs is actually a viable option. Joe does not know that getting fit ACTUALLY matters, he's a terrible golfer and he's ok with that. Joe does NOT know THP, and that's not Joe's style. Now when Joe walks into Golfsmith he's not looking to talk to anyone (he doesn't want to be pressured into buying anything) but I would bet some good money that Joe thinks every person there is working to sell him the most expensive club they can justify with "numbers" Joe at this point does not want to be fit because he thinks it's one step shy of a scam. (The fact that this not true, is not relevant to Joe, as he suffers from confirmation bias like all humans) So Joe looks at drivers, either on the used wall or on the new rack. And he sees....garrraagghhh....and that's about all Joe will remember. He's overwhelmed, there are literally hundreds of models in that building, and he's not knowledgeable enough to know what all of the buzzwords mean, or what kind of swing he has. If Joe is strong, and toughs it out, he'll grab a few that catch his eye, wiggle them a bit and if he's feeling particularly brave he'll actually hit some balls with a few different ones. Joe probably can't interpret the data on the monitor, if he's lucky enough to be at a store with a monitor he can hit on. So he'll pick one. Or he'll walk in, see the selections and have a minor panic attack and turn around and buy some golf balls and leave.

Now....if Joe is lucky, he'll have someone he trusts tell him to trust the fitting, and get him to understand that the guys fitting him for a club are not looking to wring every dollar out of his wallet, but actually want him to have something that works, and he'll go ask for help. Remember though Joe at this point in his life has made multiple purchases on advice of salesmen that really were out to get his money and not help him in any way. While not all salesmen are that way, and in fact, most probably aren't, limited experience will tell him that salesmen/women are the bad guys and confirmation bias will back that up. So he's not likely to get fit for a club without some prodding.

Now, if Joe has a fitter he trusts, that whole process, while looking daunting at first, will be much easier. A good fitter will start removing options that aren't viable very quickly, all Joe has to do is swing the club.

The examples of cars, and electronics are not exactly good comparisons, when purchasing a car, or a cell phone, or a TV you have someone helping you, that can "explain" the features of the item. TVs are all lined up nice and neat and you can see which one you like, Cars you get to drive, with a helpful salesman answering all of your questions, all the helpful geeky types at the cell phone stores will answer your questions for days, and show you the differences. Or you can play with all the demos if you don't trust the salespeople and just like the cashier at Golfsmith they'll ring out for whatever you want. With Drivers you can compare looks, but there's no way to tell which one is right for you (outside of the gear nerds who understand all the funny words)

So back to the issue, is there too much technology? No, there is too much stubborn. People need to accept the assistance of the fitters at these places, and these places need to make sure their fitters are doing what's best for the customer. I think we're getting to that point, but it's still going to be a slow road for some people.


Apologies for the wall of text. have an :alien: for your patience!!
 
I see where the OP is coming from. Let's use my neighbor "Joe" (names have been changed to protect the guilty) Joe likes golf in a "I'll watch part of the Masters, and maybe once or twice a month I'll go play" kinda way. Joe does not know that getting fit for clubs is actually a viable option. Joe does not know that getting fit ACTUALLY matters, he's a terrible golfer and he's ok with that. Joe does NOT know THP, and that's not Joe's style. Now when Joe walks into Golfsmith he's not looking to talk to anyone (he doesn't want to be pressured into buying anything) but I would bet some good money that Joe thinks every person there is working to sell him the most expensive club they can justify with "numbers" Joe at this point does not want to be fit because he thinks it's one step shy of a scam. (The fact that this not true, is not relevant to Joe, as he suffers from confirmation bias like all humans) So Joe looks at drivers, either on the used wall or on the new rack. And he sees....garrraagghhh....and that's about all Joe will remember. He's overwhelmed, there are literally hundreds of models in that building, and he's not knowledgeable enough to know what all of the buzzwords mean, or what kind of swing he has. If Joe is strong, and toughs it out, he'll grab a few that catch his eye, wiggle them a bit and if he's feeling particularly brave he'll actually hit some balls with a few different ones. Joe probably can't interpret the data on the monitor, if he's lucky enough to be at a store with a monitor he can hit on. So he'll pick one. Or he'll walk in, see the selections and have a minor panic attack and turn around and buy some golf balls and leave.

Now....if Joe is lucky, he'll have someone he trusts tell him to trust the fitting, and get him to understand that the guys fitting him for a club are not looking to wring every dollar out of his wallet, but actually want him to have something that works, and he'll go ask for help. Remember though Joe at this point in his life has made multiple purchases on advice of salesmen that really were out to get his money and not help him in any way. While not all salesmen are that way, and in fact, most probably aren't, limited experience will tell him that salesmen/women are the bad guys and confirmation bias will back that up. So he's not likely to get fit for a club without some prodding.

Now, if Joe has a fitter he trusts, that whole process, while looking daunting at first, will be much easier. A good fitter will start removing options that aren't viable very quickly, all Joe has to do is swing the club.

The examples of cars, and electronics are not exactly good comparisons, when purchasing a car, or a cell phone, or a TV you have someone helping you, that can "explain" the features of the item. TVs are all lined up nice and neat and you can see which one you like, Cars you get to drive, with a helpful salesman answering all of your questions, all the helpful geeky types at the cell phone stores will answer your questions for days, and show you the differences. Or you can play with all the demos if you don't trust the salespeople and just like the cashier at Golfsmith they'll ring out for whatever you want. With Drivers you can compare looks, but there's no way to tell which one is right for you (outside of the gear nerds who understand all the funny words)

So back to the issue, is there too much technology? No, there is too much stubborn. People need to accept the assistance of the fitters at these places, and these places need to make sure their fitters are doing what's best for the customer. I think we're getting to that point, but it's still going to be a slow road for some people.


Apologies for the wall of text. have an :alien: for your patience!!

But that has not changed over the years, it has only become more accessible to test and get fit. There were still tons of choices. There were still tons of brands.
 
But that has not changed over the years, it has only become more accessible to test and get fit. There were still tons of choices. There were still tons of brands.


You're absolutely correct. I think perhaps the availability of options at the big box stores has increased, and the quantity of the big box stores has increased as well, so the overwhelming availability of product seems larger than it used to be. Growing up I either bought clubs at garage sales, or the golf course. I don't believe there was such a place as a Golfsmith, or a DSG. Those stores are spreading and bringing the options to everyone. That is a great thing, but now people can actually SEE in front of them all of the options as opposed to the 1-3 brands your local course might carry.
 
I believe it's not complicated at all hit them all with different shafts and buy the one that gives you what you want in ball flight and distance I have been given drivers to hit that they say should be great and not worth a crap I am now gaming an r15 with a speeder 661 stiff shaft that according to the numbers I shouldn't be able to hit and it's by far the best driver I have ever hit. I think if it feels good and you get the ball flight you like buy it
 
They should hang a CG vs. MOI chart in every golf store. That is the only way to know the differences between drivers, as it all mostly on the inside, unlike irons where you can clearly see what's a blade, cavity, SGI, etc.
 
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