High School Golf Thread

[BogeyNSmith]

It’s a definite balancing act.

For me, with the kids of mine who have instructors, I reach out to the instructor and ask them to send me the videos and critiques they make as well as 1 or 2 thoughts they want the kids to remember. This way I can helped convey those thoughts to the kids and never something contrary to what they’re learning. I also tell the parents if they see something, let ME know and I’ll convey the idea to the kids. After all, it takes a village.

For the ones who don’t get lessons, I am essentially their swing coach with a HEAVY focus on fundamentals and course management.

Wow, you are putting in work! Love it!
Our coaches are great guys and I completely appreciate all they do but this is another level. Coaching can be such a thankless job and some think you all are glorified babysitters. I'm convinced they have no clue.

I mentioned this thread to my son who would lose his mind if I tried to coach him on the course (as he should) and he just shook his head.

 

[Jman]

Wow, you are putting in work! Love it!
Our coaches are great guys and I completely appreciate all they do but this is another level. Coaching can be such a thankless job and some think you all are glorified babysitters. I'm convinced they have no clue.

I mentioned this thread to my son who would lose his mind if I tried to coach him on the course (as he should) and he just shook his head.

It’s the only way I know. Between coaching and writing for THP, life is good!

 

[hcopenhagenh]

This is a dumb and a very elitist take. Truly.

Some kids can afford instructors, others can’t. They shouldn’t be left out from learning and advancing because of their financial situations. It is the role of a good coach to be able to be the facilitator, the phychologist, and the swing coach when it is needed.

I see both sides of it. Our HS team in Florida is one of the best in the state year in and year out. Every single kid on the team has their own private instructor, most have a mental coach, and most have personal golf trainers. Every kid on our team 1-5 is shooting in the 70's and basically use HS golf as free practice on a variety of courses. Our 6-10 is beating all the teams in the area as well. They are using it as a tune up to the tournament golf they play the rest of the 9 months. We are a public HS that is fortunate to have a PGA Instructor as our coach. There are plus's and minus's to that as well. He stays out of the kids way and puts very little pressure on them to perform. He never gives swing tips or instructions to any of the kids unless they ask. A Golf Coach, even at the collegiate level, is simply a motivator and facilitator of practices setting up drills to arranging play time on the course. Our coach makes the schedule, drives the van, , motivates, checks grades, and makes sure the kids are behaving in school.

In regards to girl's golf, no girl is being recruited for college based on HS performances. They are being recruited on tournament golf out side of HS golf. HS girl's golf courses are extremely short so College Coaches take it as a grain of salt.

 

[Jman]

I see both sides of it. Our HS team in Florida is one of the best in the state year in and year out. Every single kid on the team has their own private instructor, most have a mental coach, and most have personal golf trainers. Every kid on our team 1-5 is shooting in the 70's and basically use HS golf as free practice on a variety of courses. Our 6-10 is beating all the teams in the area as well. They are using it as a tune up to the tournament golf they play the rest of the 9 months. We are a public HS that is fortunate to have a PGA Instructor as our coach. There are plus's and minus's to that as well. He stays out of the kids way and puts very little pressure on them to perform. He never gives swing tips or instructions to any of the kids unless they ask. A Golf Coach, even at the collegiate level, is simply a motivator and facilitator of practices setting up drills to arranging play time on the course. Our coach makes the schedule, drives the van, , motivates, checks grades, and makes sure the kids are behaving in school.

In regards to girl's golf, no girl is being recruited for college based on HS performances. They are being recruited on tournament golf out side of HS golf. HS girl's golf courses are extremely short so College Coaches take it as a grain of salt.

That team is the 1% of high school golf teams, and not the reality for the overwhelming majority out there.

Even then, see my latest post on how I handle kids with instructors

 

[hcopenhagenh]

It is hard to imagine. I seem to recall a thread about this (related to HS or college guys beating LPGA pros). I still think a lot of people don't realize the jump it takes: 1) to be among the best in your age group, and then 2) to be among the best in the world. The talent for sure - but also the mental toughness and drive.

The top HS Juniors and College Males would thump the LPGA women playing from the same exact distances. I am ready to be flamed and that is OK. The LPGA women's are not, for the most part, able to get to Par 5's in two more than once a round. The top Juniors (I am talking even a 13 year old male) are able to and would smoke the LPGA women. There is a reason LPGA is talking about scaling back the distances of the courses they play.

A great example is Jman's newly acquired sophomore. He would thump the LPGA women.

 

[billyh]

Parents just need to let their kids be coached. Let them be coached hard. Let them have their successes and failures, and stop trying to prevent those.

For some parents, it’s hard. I think the biggest thing for parents is to have a relationship with the coach based on trust. As a parent, I need to trust that the coach has my child’s best interest. I know as a coach, there is an entire team that the coach is responsible for, but being real, as a parent I’m selfish and to me, my child is the most important (just as every parent should feel). As a realist, I know that isn’t always the case, but on the course, the coach is just that, the coach. Let the coach do their thing and don’t get in the way. We as parents need to be respectful spectators, because at that point (during a competitive round) that is all we are and all we should be.
As a teacher, coach, and parent, I’ve always had the praise it public, punish in private. It’s extremely hard sometimes, but again, as a parent, it’s a must. Honestly, I wish there were more coaches like James in this world. Just reading what he does for his kids shows me, as a parent, how much passion he has for his kids.
Seriously James, good job. Keep it up, and NEVER loose that passion.

 

[Jman]

The top HS Juniors and College Males would thump the LPGA women playing from the same exact distances. I am ready to be flamed and that is OK. The LPGA women's are not, for the most part, able to get to Par 5's in two more than once a round. The top Juniors (I am talking even a 13 year old male) are able to and would smoke the LPGA women. There is a reason LPGA is talking about scaling back the distances of the courses they play.

A great example is Jman's newly acquired sophomore. He would thump the LPGA women.

Hell no he wouldn’t. That is insanity.

 

[Jman]

For some parents, it’s hard. I think the biggest thing for parents is to have a relationship with the coach based on trust. As a parent, I need to trust that the coach has my child’s best interest. I know as a coach, there is an entire team that the coach is responsible for, but being real, as a parent I’m selfish and to me, my child is the most important (just as every parent should feel). As a realist, I know that isn’t always the case, but on the course, the coach is just that, the coach. Let the coach do their thing and don’t get in the way. We as parents need to be respectful spectators, because at that point (during a competitive round) that is all we are and all we should be.
As a teacher, coach, and parent, I’ve always had the praise it public, punish in private. It’s extremely hard sometimes, but again, as a parent, it’s a must. Honestly, I wish there were more coaches like James in this world. Just reading what he does for his kids shows me, as a parent, how much passion he has for his kids.
Seriously James, good job. Keep it up, and NEVER loose that passion.

Thank you for this post! It means far more than you know!

 

[Jman]

Well, my girls lost conference by 3 shots to a team that thought they’d beat us by 20. They’re believing and rounding into form at the right time, LOTS of mental work going into things. Lots.

The boys took 3rd and my junior played like horse dung, then the three freshmen got are up by the wind. Senior took first individually with a salty 78 in 12-15 winds. Today going forward, my new toy is here.

 

[hcopenhagenh]

Hell no he wouldn’t. That is insanity.

Then he isn't as good as you say he is or you don't follow or understand top junior golf. The top 13-18 year old junior males would compete and win on the LPGA without question. These kids have +5 and more handicaps playing from 6800-7000 yds. The LPGA women play from 6800 and the boy's will smoke them. The boy's move up to 6300-6500 where they normally play and it would be worse.

 

[Jman]

Then he isn't as good as you say he is or you don't follow or understand top junior golf. The top 13-18 year old junior males would compete and win on the LPGA without question. These kids have +5 and more handicaps playing from 6800-7000 yds. The LPGA women play from 6800 and the boy's will smoke them. The boy's move up to 6300-6500 where they normally play and it would be worse.

He is as good as I say and I absolutely understand top junior golf.

I also happen to understand the difference between kids and professionals.

 

[hcopenhagenh]

He is as good as I say and I absolutely understand top junior golf.

I also happen to understand the difference between kids and professionals.

I don't think you do so I will lay it out for you.

Lydia Ko was the number 1 player female player in the world when she was 17. Collin Morikawa, Victor Hovland, Matt Wolff were the same age or younger. Do you really think she was better than them? Of course she wasn't and it wasn't even close. Furthermore, there were at least another 300 kids 13-18 at the same time that were better than her. The key words being "At Least". You could take the top 100 boy's from the state of Florida right now and they are all better than any of the girl's on the LPGA.

Same reasons why a 15U boy's soccer team beat the USA National Women's Soccer Team.

Over 300 HS boy's run better times than female US Olympic Track Athletes.

A HS boy's basketball team at the top end will beat WNBA Basketball teams.

Yet, you think that juniors that are at the top of their game won't beat the LPGA women? That is nonsense.

Top Junior Golfers have absolutely no problem moving the ball 300+. The top LPGA woman averages 285 off the tee. The average of all LPGA woman is a 218 carry with a total around 250. Those aren't made up numbers and are easy to find. The top junior golfers are averaging 285 carry. Why does this matter? It is statistically proven that the longer you drive the ball the lower the handicap. When players get on tour there are really only two statistical categories that matter, SG Approach and SG Off the tee. The junior boy's will decimate the women's set ups getting to all the Par 5's with Driver/Iron. LPGA woman might get to one Par 5 in two (again this is easily attainable information as LPGA is in serious talks of scaling back distances because of this issue). There are also driveable par 4's for the guys on the LPGA tour where they are driving. Again, purely from a statistical standpoint, the closer you are to the hole the shorter the proximity to the cup. All of these junior boy's will be driver wedge. There is no doubt that the LPGA woman can putt and have amazing short games. However, that isn't enough to keep up. At 7 ft proximity tour average is 50%. A poor putter will be at 40% from this distance. At 12 ft proximity average tour make is 25%. After 15ft, making putts is basically luck. I will take the longer hitter over the great putter 100% of the time in these scenarios. There is a reason Bubba doesn't struggle to keep his tour card but the best putters statistically on tour do. These top Juniors aren't tour players, but they move the ball down the course like they are and putting statistics will be quite similar to the PGA Players (again this information is easy to find). Give them a caddie to help manage and it is over. Likewise, if you move the ladies back to 7000 yds, the junior will have more of an advantage.

I am not talking about your typical HS player. I am talking about Juniors that travel year round playing HS golf. In Florida they are a dime a dozen. I can tell you the kids at my sons school plays with PGA and LPGA players. The only way the LPGA players play is if the boy's are playing 6800 and they are short of 6400 because they don't stand a chance playing the same tees.

 

[Jman]

I don't think you do so I will lay it out for you.

Lydia Ko was the number 1 player female player in the world when she was 17. Collin Morikawa, Victor Hovland, Matt Wolff were the same age or younger. Do you really think she was better than them? Of course she wasn't and it wasn't even close. Furthermore, there were at least another 300 kids 13-18 at the same time that were better than her. The key words being "At Least". You could take the top 100 boy's from the state of Florida right now and they are all better than any of the girl's on the LPGA.

Same reasons why a 15U boy's soccer team beat the USA National Women's Soccer Team.

Over 300 HS boy's run better times than female US Olympic Track Athletes.

A HS boy's basketball team at the top end will beat WNBA Basketball teams.

Yet, you think that juniors that are at the top of their game won't beat the LPGA women? That is nonsense.

Top Junior Golfers have absolutely no problem moving the ball 300+. The top LPGA woman averages 285 off the tee. The average of all LPGA woman is a 218 carry with a total around 250. Those aren't made up numbers and are easy to find. The top junior golfers are averaging 285 carry. Why does this matter? It is statistically proven that the longer you drive the ball the lower the handicap. When players get on tour there are really only two statistical categories that matter, SG Approach and SG Off the tee. The junior boy's will decimate the women's set ups getting to all the Par 5's with Driver/Iron. LPGA woman might get to one Par 5 in two (again this is easily attainable information as LPGA is in serious talks of scaling back distances because of this issue). There are also driveable par 4's for the guys on the LPGA tour where they are driving. Again, purely from a statistical standpoint, the closer you are to the hole the shorter the proximity to the cup. All of these junior boy's will be driver wedge. There is no doubt that the LPGA woman can putt and have amazing short games. However, that isn't enough to keep up. At 7 ft proximity tour average is 50%. A poor putter will be at 40% from this distance. At 12 ft proximity average tour make is 25%. After 15ft, making putts is basically luck. I will take the longer hitter over the great putter 100% of the time in these scenarios. There is a reason Bubba doesn't struggle to keep his tour card but the best putters statistically on tour do. These top Juniors aren't tour players, but they move the ball down the course like they are and putting statistics will be quite similar to the PGA Players (again this information is easy to find). Give them a caddie to help manage and it is over. Likewise, if you move the ladies back to 7000 yds, the junior will have more of an advantage.

I am not talking about your typical HS player. I am talking about Juniors that travel year round playing HS golf. In Florida they are a dime a dozen. I can tell you the kids at my sons school plays with PGA and LPGA players. The only way the LPGA players play is if the boy's are playing 6800 and they are short of 6400 because they don't stand a chance playing the same tees.

Thanks for ‘splaining that to me.

Good lord. Hahaha

 

[MWard]

The top HS Juniors and College Males would thump the LPGA women playing from the same exact distances. I am ready to be flamed and that is OK. The LPGA women's are not, for the most part, able to get to Par 5's in two more than once a round. The top Juniors (I am talking even a 13 year old male) are able to and would smoke the LPGA women. There is a reason LPGA is talking about scaling back the distances of the courses they play.

A great example is Jman's newly acquired sophomore. He would thump the LPGA women.

@Jman what’s the scoring average of your Sophomore? Is it under par?

 

[Jman]

Anyway. To high school golf....

Got our regional assignments today. Very favorable for the boys luckily, legit shot at 2nd or 3rd to qualify as a team. Girls could have a legit chance to win theirs, we will know for sure when we see the two teams who’s coaches aren’t entering scores tomorrow.

 

[hcopenhagenh]

Thanks for ‘splaining that to me.

Good lord. Hahaha

So your response is "I don't understand Junior Golf." Nice. Must be one hell of a HS coach.

 

[JB]

So your response is "I don't understand Junior Golf." Nice. Must be one hell of a HS coach.

There is no need for this. This forum is about friendly debate, and while I don't disagree with some of your findings, I agree with some others. Yet I would not stoop to criticizing your job.

 

[hcopenhagenh]

@Jman what’s the scoring average of your Sophomore? Is it under par?

If it is who I think it is his Junior Tournament Handicap from roughly 7000 is a +4. If it is the other kid in Oklahoma it is a +1 from 7000. Either way he would smoke LPGA players.

If it isn't either of those two kids, he isn't as good as Jman thinks he is.

 

[Jman]

If it is who I think it is his Junior Tournament Handicap from roughly 7000 is a +4. If it is the other kid in Oklahoma it is a +1 from 7000. Either way he would smoke a the LPGA players.

If it isn't either of those two kids, he isn't as good as Jman thinks he is.

Stay classy my friend.

 

[hcopenhagenh]

There is no need for this. This forum is about friendly debate, and while I don't disagree with some of your findings, I agree with some others. Yet I would not stoop to criticizing your job.

Got it... OK for him to be cynical.

 

[JB]

Got it... OK for him to be cynical.

Good lord.
Want to have a friendly debate about anything involving golf? This is a great forum with so much going on for the community including events, contests and fun.
Want to criticize people's jobs? Take it to social media where white knuckling keyboard warriors seem to be in their element.

 

[Templet0n]

Then he isn't as good as you say he is or you don't follow or understand top junior golf. The top 13-18 year old junior males would compete and win on the LPGA without question. These kids have +5 and more handicaps playing from 6800-7000 yds. The LPGA women play from 6800 and the boy's will smoke them. The boy's move up to 6300-6500 where they normally play and it would be worse.

I think most of us under appreciate just how good the LPGA players are..

 

[Jman]

Back on the farm....

3rd place today for the ladies in 16-20 mph winds all day. 8 strokes behind the home team on the course we will play for regionals.

Struck the ball amazingly well, putt like garbage today.

Boys in action tomorrow. 33 team tournament, gonna be slow!

 

[LSMO]

Quick question to all the coaches out there. My daughter will be a sophomore next year and wants to play golf. What do you think is the best thing to work on? She carries driver about 170 and hits her irons ok. Scores high 80s from the forward tees. She’s been playing a long time but no competitions or anything. Never pushed her but next she does want to play.

 

[Grins]

I'd say she should play as much junior tournaments as possible this Spring/Summer. Get used to competing & the pressure involved - and hopefully make some friends out there.

And focus the majority of her practice time on putting & chipping/pitching. If she knows her distances on partial shots (say, 80 yards and closer) & can repeat them consistently, she will score well