High School golf tryouts - is this expected?

[RealPretendPsychic]

One kid in my neighborhood got scholarship to play tennis for UCLA and he has never competed in HS tennis, only USTA and UTR tournaments. His UTR is 13.3 and the best player on the tennis team in his HS conference has a UTR of 7. It would not be a fair fight.

A kid I coached dove for the high school team for 4 years and made the finals at NCAA championships as a freshman. A number of swimmers I know have done the same. Some were grateful for that experience as it was a much more team-oriented setting than if they had only competed on the amateur circuit. There’s no single right path.

For what it’s worth, I’ve also seen some of these swimmers/divers lose meets to kids who didn’t even make the state championship. Sometimes people have an off-meet whether due to injury or off-course distraction, and a full body of work needs to be considered rather than basing decisions on one event. Coaching is freaking hard.

 

[justagame]

You're getting lots of good advice here. There's a ton of middle ground in between "the final score in the tryouts should be ALL that matters" and "tryouts don't matter at all". A tryout, even a 3-day one, is a snapshot. I have no idea if this particular coach is fair or not, but good coaches from many different sports take into account all sorts of relevant things when determining whether a performance is representative, is it repeatable, is there potential for future progression, etc. Just because past history and tournament play count, doesn't mean tryouts are irrelevant, it means they're not the only data point.

As one of many people who has been cut at one time or another from a HS sport, I totally concur with the advice to have him (not you or a parent), have a face-to-face with the coach, express his desire to eventually make the team, and ask for advice on what he should do to improve his chances next time around. A good coach will appreciate and remember that, and the experience will serve him well beyond just golf.

 

[rlefig]

Sooooo, he goes out and practices like a maniac, gets really good, makes the team, and tells the coach he won't play, right? Doesn't that put him right where he is now, not on the team?
I'm getting the impression that this is going to spiral way out of control.
You don't want to tell a kid to get revenge on anyone, you want to tell a kid to make themselves the best they can be, by the sweat of their own work.
THAT is the goal. Not some penny-ante revenge script.

Right @Hamfist replace revenge with motivation. Use it as motivation to keep working hard and getting better. Try and turn this into something constructive instead of destructive.

 

[BigMac]

Moral of the story: Life is unfair sometimes. He'll get over it and hopefully is motivated to get even better from it. I'm sure something similar to this story has happened to 99% of the people here at some point in life be it a sports team, a job promotion, etc.

Respond, don't react.

One of the best sayings I've ever heard: "'Fair' is where you take your pig to win a ribbon."

Doesn't make any sense to me for OP to go spend $25-30K so the kid can be in the exact same place he is right now - not on the golf team - but hey, he'll show that coach what's what, right?

 

[leftshot]

My rule is simple, if you want to have your parents call, that’s fine, but be prepared for me to speak total honesty with them, so if you’re holding something out from the story, they’re going to get it.

Jman is speaking from experience here. Every one of us who has been a coach has probably had many experiences where parents come in and don't have a clue as to what really happened.

 

[Jman]

Jman is speaking from experience here. Every one of us who has been a coach has probably had many experiences where parents come in and don't have a clue as to what really happened.

Solid 95% of the time.

 

[OldandStiff]

I love and hate a lot of what's being discussed here in the first few pages. And applaud any no-cut programs out there.

I keep coming back to if score is not a factor in determining team spots, why keep it on tryout day? If the coach is deciding based on eye test it wouldn't seem to matter. And if he's deciding based on prior tournament experience, the whole exercise of a 'tryout' seems pretty lame without some kind of criteria for getting on the team without it being offered beforehand. I don't see how this setup wouldn't just guarantee upset kids and parents. I mean, you're always going to have those anyway, and good players have bad days, so consideration isn't unreasonable, but it sounds like a lot of 'whim' here, and that pisses people off. Use it to get better? I kind of say get ****** on that mentality. Motivation maybe, but opportunity creates better players, and so does access to coaching. Take those two things away right off the bat just beause you say so, and watch how much harder it is for person to get better.

 

[NeverWiff]

High School golf is supposed to be fun and make new friends but the coach takes that away from him.

I told him that he should be holding his head high and proud of what he did, knowing that he is better than the three seniors that are selected to the team.

I agree with what you told your nephew. Keep your chin up.

I stick with my original suggestion that your nephew should practice hard, play in some local non-school related events, if possible. Maybe even attend a couple of his HS events as a spectator or ask the coach what he CAN do to play in the future. It can show continued interest and he can pick the brains of current players and the coach. Maybe next year is the year he makes the team. Causing a stir may do nothing but poison the well for the future. Showing a bit of poise and grace under fire, while difficult, will yield far more positive results and goodwill than raising a stink ever did. That's just my 2 cents.

A thought.... Maybe the 3 Seniors that made the team this year (if they're new additions) demonstrated that high level of interest over the 3 prior years. Maybe they were cut for 3 years but their work and their dedication earned them a spot? IF they were already on the team, there's no way a coach will cut a Senior. I just don't see that happening. There's a lot we don't know.... Best of luck to your nephew in his education and extracurriculars.

 

[BigMac]

Thinking back to being that age, if I was new to a high school and trying to make new friends/establish myself, I'd be begging my parents not to go make a stink about it to the coach, and I'd be absolutely furious if they did. Remember back - high school is ruthless with peer pressure and all the teasing/s**t talking. Word gets out that mommy and daddy went crying to the coach because new guy didn't make the team and you're fresh, bloody meat in the water with sharks circling.

I dunno, maybe it's different now with all the 'kinder and gentler' PC stuff - but it would have been a good way to become a complete pariah and an object of mockery and derision in my HS years. Kids can be brutal.

 

[leftshot]

Golf has a very rich and deep history and present emphasis when it comes to character development, sportsmanship, and developing maturity. We see this throughout our sport from 1st Tee to the highest competitive levels of the sport. Golf, of all sports, would be the sport you would expect other criteria besides score to enter into the criteria. But it's not the only sport that does so. Certainly there are many schools and sports programs at the middle school and high school level that hold similar values and priorities.

My nephew is very well behaved and respectful, and he does not have bad attitude. Let not go there.

I was responding to a question from another THPer. I in no way inferred, suggested--much less stated that your nephew lacked any of these criteria.

 

[Chef23]

Your comparison is not fair one.

Lacrosse, hockey, and basketball are team sports and the evaluation is a very subjective one.

Golf is sport where the objective is very black and white. Get the ball into the hole with the least amount of strokes no matter how ugly your swing, chipping or putting might be. The player with the lowest score wins and makes the team, assuming that kid doesn't have any attitude or behavior issues. Whoever has the lowest score win, last time I check. Just don't come in the tryouts with the outcome is already determined on who should make the team. If that's the case, just cancel the tryouts altogether.

The facts that your nephew should talk to the coach and not have his parents call don’t change. Also the fact that the playing field is generally never level in life don’t change. You have obviously made up your mind and are looking for validation here not a discourse.

 

[campilobaxter]

Your comparison is not fair one.

Lacrosse, hockey, and basketball are team sports and the evaluation is a very subjective one.

Golf is sport where the objective is very black and white. Get the ball into the hole with the least amount of strokes no matter how ugly your swing, chipping or putting might be. The player with the lowest score wins and makes the team, assuming that kid doesn't have any attitude or behavior issues. Whoever has the lowest score win, last time I check. Just don't come in the tryouts with the outcome is already determined on who should make the team. If that's the case, just cancel the tryouts altogether.

You keep saying this, but I don't think its true. HS golf is a team sport. The team wins the matches. There are other considerations, such as how the team fits together. It is NOT 100% only about the lowest scores.

 

[Bucketsofjoy]

This is where I have an issue with this. The golf coach does not know anything about my nephew until this past Monday because he is a new student at this high school. The purpose of the tryouts is to find the best 12 players in three days instead of last year or next year.

It was a tryout, not a tournament. If I'm that coach, I'm looking to find the 12 players that give me the best chance to win a championship at the end of the season. Not today, not tomorrow. State Tournament time.

This is where I have issues with your premise. Last year was done and over with. Everyone has to prove him/herself over again every year.

Where I work, my compensation is based on this year performance. It has NOTHING to do with last year performance. If I do not perform well this year, I will be fired regardless of how well I performed last year.

Have you ever heard of the phrase "Past performance is no guarantee of future results."?

You are continually arguing that your nephew's performance over those 27 holes is guaranteeing that he is a better player than the 3 guys that jumped past him. That phrase is probably why your nephew got skipped.

 

[lockstockrye]

Please stop saying "a bad day". It is a three days tryouts, NOT a single day. If you have three consecutive bad days, you shouldn't be on the team.



I work in Cybersecurity and I am glad you brought this up because I've run across this many times. Years and practical experience means nothing to me if the person can not handle the specific role that he/she is hired for. My solution is to give them an 4 hours practical exam with real world scenarios about cybersecurity and see which applicant come out ahead. The exam consists a very technical scenario where they have to provide me with solutions to specific scenarios, for example, how do you mitigate an ongoing DDOS attack in an environment?

The best candidate with the best score gets the job.

NO They don't! After reading through all your posts - I would NEVER hire you even if you were the 'best candidate"! Malice, Anger, lack of understanding, lack of common sense, claiming to teach kids about revenge, threatening to file baseless complaints, calling a teacher/coach a cuss word!

Yeah...the best candidate does not always get the job!! I'll take a good human being any day over someone with those poor traits!

 

[Jman]

You keep saying this, but I don't think its true. HS golf is a team sport. The team wins the matches. There are other considerations, such as how the team fits together. It is NOT 100% only about the lowest scores.

These are facts.

 

[Mattattack]

If you're nephew is so good, he just needs to start playing local junior tournaments. If he shows promise or starts winning, im sure the coach will make an exception and come back to BEG you to join.

 

[BigMac]

If you're nephew is so good, he just needs to start playing local junior tournaments. If he shows promise or starts winning, im sure the coach will make an exception and come back to BEG you to join.

His nephew shot 45 each day - he's a bogey golfer.

I'm not tuned up on high school/junior golf - for those who are, is a bogey golfer in that realm considered really good and a major prospect that coaches would be fighting over? Genuine question.

 

[GolferDad66]

Not really @Snowman. What you'll find is the top end of most HS golf teams (at least near me) are near scratch golfers. These are kids that golf was their sport for most of their life, played all summer, access to club courses, and played on travel/tournament teams over the summer, etc. That may be top 1-3 of the team year over year. these are the kids that get recruited. My son made the HS team last year (as a sophomore) and top 3 kids (all seniors) are all playing in college now. Best kid on a full ride scholarship at a big northeast school (and was in the 5 man rotation in college as a freshman. spots 4-7 are competitive but no chance for scholarship; rest of spots are kids bogey golf or slightly better- no chance of being recruited but having fun.

 

[AndyL0711]

i have a similar experience. i was trying out for my basketball team...i was a decent player. i was definitely better then the majority of the kids trying out but i was kind of an introvert and not very social, so they kept the more social guys and not me. sometimes skills aren't always what they want.

 

[wazzubrew]

I pretty much agree with all of the advice given here already, and relayed my opinion on how it works back on page 1. There are a lot of unfair practices in youth sports, but attitude in the face of these hurdles is truly the best skill that someone can learn.

On the flip side, just because I like to see both sides, my disappointment is two fold --

One, that golf is not as objective as I believed. I joined the track team my junior year, and was so instantly relieved that I didn't have to deal with subjective tryouts as I had with baseball and basketball all of my life. My long jump and triple jump were further than everyone else's, so I was inserted into the main spot for varsity. Period. The three furthest jumps at each meet would take those varsity spots the following meet. Numbers couldn't be argued with or used subjectively which was really refreshing. I was hoping golf would be more like that. Seems like just taking everyone's best 9 of the 27 would be more reasonable.

Second, that they do not allow everyone to practice. Maybe that is unrealistic, but I believe our high school track and tennis teams took everyone that wanted to better themselves and only allowed the best to compete. As @OldandStiff said, the players with access to daily practice and coaching are going to have a much better opportunity to get better (not to mention the important high school social aspects). I never played golf, I have no idea how my school did it but I seem to remember more than 12. More like 30. Lots of players being cut from other sports being talked into doing golf by their parents and looking back being thankful because it's a lifetime sport that they wouldn't have learned otherwise.

 

[golfguy2021]

Not really @Snowman. What you'll find is the top end of most HS golf teams (at least near me) are near scratch golfers. These are kids that golf was their sport for most of their life, played all summer, access to club courses, and played on travel/tournament teams over the summer, etc. That may be top 1-3 of the team year over year. these are the kids that get recruited. My son made the HS team last year (as a sophomore) and top 3 kids (all seniors) are all playing in college now. Best kid on a full ride scholarship at a big northeast school (and was in the 5 man rotation in college as a freshman. spots 4-7 are competitive but no chance for scholarship; rest of spots are kids bogey golf or slightly better- no chance of being recruited but having fun.

Having a full ride scholarship in golf is EXTREMELY difficult and very rare. Granted I don't know much about college golf but I know college tennis very well. D1 Men golf is the same as D1 Men tennis. A D1 school can only gives out a maximum 4.5 scholarships per year for golf. The same goes for tennis. There are about 12 players on the roster for 4.5 scholarships, some might be walk-on, and most are on "partial" scholarships. It is very rare for a coach to give a full ride scholarship to a single player.

That's why golf is called an "equivalency" sport.

 

[golfguy2021]

NO They don't! After reading through all your posts - I would NEVER hire you even if you were the 'best candidate"! Malice, Anger, lack of understanding, lack of common sense, claiming to teach kids about revenge, threatening to file baseless complaints, calling a teacher/coach a cuss word!

Yeah...the best candidate does not always get the job!! I'll take a good human being any day over someone with those poor traits!

@Pinche Baboso: Fortunately, I am also glad you're not my boss either. I am glad where I work they appreciate my skill set.

You are continually arguing that your nephew's performance over those 27 holes is guaranteeing that he is a better player than the 3 guys that jumped past him. That phrase is probably why your nephew got skipped.

Please don't twist what I said. Yes, my "nephew performance over those 27 holes is guaranteeing that he is a better player than the 3 guys that jumped past him." during the three days tryouts.

 

[Evolvingwildes]

Agree with a lot of the points mentioned already in this thread, but haven't seen anybody point out that it seems a bit strange that the coach would cut the team down to exactly 12 guys. When you're talking spots 9-12 on a HS golf team, these are guys that are not likely to be playing in the matches anyway (it was always top 6 when I played), so why not let the 13th+ ranked players practice with the team if they've already shown some promise?

Of course there may be limited practice spots available at the home course, but that seems like an easy problem to solve by rotating the bubble players when it comes to on-course time. We spent half our practices at the range anyways.

 

[RealPretendPsychic]

Agree with a lot of the points mentioned already in this thread, but haven't seen anybody point out that it seems a bit strange that the coach would cut the team down to exactly 12 guys. When you're talking spots 9-12 on a HS golf team, these are guys that are not likely to be playing in the matches anyway (it was always top 6 when I played), so why not let the 13th+ ranked players practice with the team if they've already shown some promise?

Of course there may be limited practice spots available at the home course, but that seems like an easy problem to solve by rotating the bubble players when it comes to on-course time. We spent half our practices at the range anyways.

Money. Budgets are a b****.

 

[cjroman]

I am not saying it is right, but it is happening in many tryouts. Politics and nepotism happen way too often! I think golf should be exactly what you are saying. Get the ball in the hole as quickly as possible.

Some people don't think politics in high school sports be like it is, but it do...