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How do you know you have a gap in the bag?

vdubtx

vdubtx

MC Team Paradise 2020
Albatross 2024 Club
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Not sure this deserves it's own thread, but, I am wondering how you know if you have a gap in your bag?

From what I have learned is a suggestion that irons should be gapped approximately 10-15 yards from each other. Should fairways be a certain number of yards below driver. How about for Hybrids?

I have 5 rounds in with my arccos sensors and was curious to see what my "smart distance" was with the data that has been collected so far on my set.
An anomaly from what I see is the 6i, I only have a few shots with that club and they weren't well struck leading to a lower number with that one. All other clubs I think seem accurate as far as distance. My one Hybrid doesn't get too much use as it seems to be a hook monster for me. I am questioning the need of the 3 wood, since my 5 wood goes same distance and I hit it straighter.

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I’m no expert but if it were me I would drop the 3w and hybrid and then try to find an iron I could hit in the 170 range. I’d probably be looking for another 3w also because that’s a huge gap between your driver and 3w
 
Iron sets have appropriate gaps from from the manufacturer.
Regarding hybrids and fairway woods I think too much focus is on carry distance and, or, total distance. For actually shooting lower scores particular players might benefit from having two or more clubs with nearly the same distance capability, but a significant variation in shot trajectory, accuracy tendencies, fitment for particular lie types etc...
 
I would get the loft on your 6 iron checked, it seems to be a big outlier as far as your other irons.

Edit: now that I saw your commentary on the 6 iron, I would try and find a 3 wood or shaft for the 3 wood that gets you a little more distance.
 
This is a great topic. To answer immediately, Cobra Connect taught me that I had one that I never even thought I would. Over the course of a few months, it showed me that my PW to GW gap was large enough that I could use another club there. It also showed me that my 3 to 4 hybrid gap was quite small so I could eliminate one there.
 
Based on your comments everything actually looks fine gaping wise, and just looks like you weren't hitting the 6i very well which lines up with what you stated. For your 3 wood...is that hitting it well? It looks like the same issue with your 6i where it's just not very quality strikes, as your 3w and 5w shouldn't be the same distance for you.
 
I had attempted to post, but it either didn't go through or it was deleted. EDIT: yeah, it was in another window and still hadn't gone through.

Suffice it to say, everyone has mentioned most of it. You might wanna give the 8i loft a look unless you weren't hitting it well, too.

I think you'll know you have a gap when you are presented with a yardage and have no idea what to hit.
 
cbaker2882 said:
Based on your comments everything actually looks fine gaping wise, and just looks like you weren't hitting the 6i very well which lines up with what you stated. For your 3 wood...is that hitting it well? It looks like the same issue with your 6i where it's just not very quality strikes, as your 3w and 5w shouldn't be the same distance for you.
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The 3 wood is a bit off and on for me. Since I have been tracking shots, furthest I have hit it is in the 225 yard range. I may look at a different shaft for it to see what that does for me, or replace it all together for an Epic Flash, maybe even wait out the new stuff coming out since the results and comments on the new clubs from Grandaddy has me envious. Ponder mode engaged LOL!!
 
OGputtnfool said:
I had attempted to post, but it either didn't go through or it was deleted. EDIT: yeah, it was in another window and still hadn't gone through.

Suffice it to say, everyone has mentioned most of it. You might wanna give the 8i loft a look unless you weren't hitting it well, too.

I think you'll know you have a gap when you are presented with a yardage and have no idea what to hit.
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I will get the 8i checked. I can hit the 8i pretty well on approaches.
 
I think you could pick and choose 3w/5w/3h

You also need to account for uses of each club though - ie 5w is off the deck 3w is a tee club.
 
Conventional wisdom is small increments at the long end of the set and larger ones at the short end.

Three degrees is generally enough difference with metalwoods and long irons. Four degrees is the common increment in middle irons. Five to six degrees would be common in wedges.

I, however, have what may or may not be a unique way to configure a set of clubs. I divide the golf set into two parts.

The longest fairway metal down to the lob or finesse wedge represent the set's basic incremental loft progression. I do that in ten clubs, and the choice of those clubs thus has to be carefully coordinated. This addresses the gap issues discussed here.

The other part of my set comprises the four shot-specific utility clubs: driver, driving iron, sand iron, and putter--you can call them the one-trick ponies if you like.
These clubs are chosen with no coordination with the ten regular or loft progression clubs. If one of these four clubs happen to overlap lofts with a club from the other group, that's completely irrelevant. They're in the bag for specific shots. The sand iron is not likely going to be hit from the fairway. Neither is the driving iron, the driver, or the putter. Many bags have a driver, a putter, and twelve all-purpose clubs, but this is how I've done it for many years.

If you look at the set in my signature, you'll see that it's consistent with this set configuration protocol.
 
We can leave clubs out and still not have distance gaps. For example we can replace a 6-iron by gripping down on a straighter lofted club. Can't see any benefit having a club in the bag that I am not friendly with. It may not be anything to do with the set up of the club/s, but our mindset. The thing is success breeds confidence and confidence breeds success.
 
Garmin Golf and my Approach S60 GPS watch confirmed my suspicions; my 5i just wasn't needed. Garmin 'Smart Distance' on the 5i was 173 (aka just 3 yards longer than the 6i and 10 yards short of the 4i) so I replaced it with a club to fill another gap. I'm a shorter hitter but my smart distance gaps are better now:
251-Dr / 224-3W / 213-5W / 199-GAPR3 / 183-4i / 170-6i / 156-7i / 141-8i / 129-9i / 118-PW / 107-GW / 89-SW / 64-LW (rarely ever play full wedge shots)
 
vdubtx said:
Not sure this deserves it's own thread, but, I am wondering how you know if you have a gap in your bag?

From what I have learned is a suggestion that irons should be gapped approximately 10-15 yards from each other. Should fairways be a certain number of yards below driver. How about for Hybrids?

I have 5 rounds in with my arccos sensors and was curious to see what my "smart distance" was with the data that has been collected so far on my set.
An anomaly from what I see is the 6i, I only have a few shots with that club and they weren't well struck leading to a lower number with that one. All other clubs I think seem accurate as far as distance. My one Hybrid doesn't get too much use as it seems to be a hook monster for me. I am questioning the need of the 3 wood, since my 5 wood goes same distance and I hit it straighter.

View attachment 8918251
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Arccos numbers include roll out - this takes into account the type of shot hit and course conditions. For gapping purposes I'd be more interested in carry distance. Still if I look at the distances they're similar to mine. I don't know what's in the bag so I don't know what your club lofts are.

3Ws are hard to hit off the deck especially with SS like ours and slower - most have adjustable lofts - you might consider lofting up yours to its max. Try it and see if that helps. You said the 3H is a hook monster and it's only 7 yds longer than your 5i. Do you really need it? I wouldn't worry about the 6 iron. If you can hit a 5i, there is no reason you can't hit a 6i. Practice with it and it will come. If you're hitting 8i approaches and it stops on the greens without much roll out, then it'll read shorter than shots that don't land on the green and have more roll out.

If you're concerned about gapping, you need to get on a launch monitor and hit 6 balls with each club, throw out the real bad shots and take the average of the rest. Basically if you hit four 6 irons 168 yds +/- 3 yds and two only 150, throw out the two 150 yd shots because they're not representative. Also if you blast one 178 in that group, toss that, too. That might be your potential, but it's not your average shot. You're only interested in carry distance, and spin numbers; forget total distance.

My numbers are (carry): Driver - 230; 3W - 215; 4H - 200; 5H - 185; 6i - 170; 7i - 157; 8i - 143; 9i - 131; PW - 120; GW - 105; SW - 90; 58* - 72. I play one length irons from 6 - SW and the distance gapping might expand more in the wedges just characteristic to the type of clubs and the way I set up with them. I don't think I get after the SW and GW as much as the others.
 
InTheRough said:
Arccos numbers include roll out - this takes into account the type of shot hit and course conditions. For gapping purposes I'd be more interested in carry distance. Still if I look at the distances they're similar to mine. I don't know what's in the bag so I don't know what your club lofts are.

3Ws are hard to hit off the deck especially with SS like ours and slower - most have adjustable lofts - you might consider lofting up yours to its max. Try it and see if that helps. You said the 3H is a hook monster and it's only 7 yds longer than your 5i. Do you really need it? I wouldn't worry about the 6 iron. If you can hit a 5i, there is no reason you can't hit a 6i. Practice with it and it will come. If you're hitting 8i approaches and it stops on the greens without much roll out, then it'll read shorter than shots that don't land on the green and have more roll out.
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Thanks for the replies all. Great to hear different perspectives that will certainly help me along in tweaking the makeup of my bag. Getting more rounds in with the sensors will hopefully clear those anomalies so I can get a better sense of the needs.

I have Callaway Rogues in the bag for irons, hybrid and my 3 wood. The 3 wood loft is not adjustable unfortunately. Since adding the Ping G410 SFT 5 wood (thank you THP!), it has been my go to off the deck vs. the 3 wood. It just goes so much straighter and like my stats show, a similar distance as well.

The hybrid I had already thought of dropping and maybe adding a 3 or 4 iron in to the bag.

Since I started golfing again this past summer, all of my clubs have been upgraded. The Rogues most recently, and I am seeing an immediate difference for the better I feel.
 
I have a replacement 3 wood on it's way to me.

Now, question on a club to replace the 3 Hybrid. I am thinking since Callaway CPO is 25% off right now, I would trade the Hybrid in and get a 3 iron to add in to the bag.

Good addition or thought to close this gap?
 
cbaker2882 said:
Based on your comments everything actually looks fine gaping wise, and just looks like you weren't hitting the 6i very well which lines up with what you stated. For your 3 wood...is that hitting it well? It looks like the same issue with your 6i where it's just not very quality strikes, as your 3w and 5w shouldn't be the same distance for you.
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I think there is a lot to what cbaker says and then a lot more too.

Your an 18+ cap and honesty not far from that myself. Unless your the exception the general inconsistencies of a high capper's basic ball striking, 5 rounds imo is nothing to get an idea of average club distances. And also imo and fwiw we have to discount the bad strikes within all those inconsistencies because those outright mishits are throwing a wrench into the whole stat thing. In reality imo we just dont hit enough good to better ball striking consistently enough to pay all that much attention to the stats. It sounds counter productive I know but imo its the better players who actually lack the majority of those basic poor ball striking inconsistencies that can better benefit from such stats because they are far more telling then they are for us.

Imo I would ignore that stuff and simply work on trying to become more consistent in basic general ball striking which in itself (unless your an exception) is highly likely a huge part the reason one is an 18 cap in the first place. I mean knowing those yardages dont mean anything when we fail to execute a decent shot and the fact they are skewed because of those failures make them imo even more meaningless. Just my thoughts on that :)
 
I wouldn't even look till 20+ rounds and unless you use the 3 wood alot then way more rounds.
 
To answer the question, I know I have a gap when I have to pull a club and swing really hard or way too soft to get a specific distance.
 
I am not sure what length the course you play is, but you have 4 clubs between 187 and 204. At most you need the 187 and a club that goes around 200 IMO. I would also try to get something that goes 215-220. You could probably stand to do a fitting in that area and go grom 2 FW's and a Hybrid intoo a 2 club setup at the top of your bag. You have an issue between 8 iron and 5 iron too. Not having a 140-145 club seems like a huge hole. That said this is 5 rounds of data so maybe get 10 rounds in before wholesale changes.
 
DataDude said:
I am not sure what length the course you play is, but you have 4 clubs between 187 and 204. At most you need the 187 and a club that goes around 200 IMO. I would also try to get something that goes 215-220. You could probably stand to do a fitting in that area and go grom 2 FW's and a Hybrid intoo a 2 club setup at the top of your bag. You have an issue between 8 iron and 5 iron too. Not having a 140-145 club seems like a huge hole. That said this is 5 rounds of data so maybe get 10 rounds in before wholesale changes.
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My issue with the things you describe is that imo all the data the player arrived at is via the wide inconsistencies and fails of us mid and high cappers at basic bastriking.

Unless the op is one in which is a consistent striker but is a high capper due to possessing no short game at all and no putting skiils. Other than that exception , imo one just wont have reliable distance data with poor and likely widely inconsistent ball striking.
 
rollin said:
My issue with the things you describe is that imo all the data the player arrived at is via the wide inconsistencies and fails of us mid and high cappers at basic bastriking.

Unless the op is one in which is a consistent striker but is a high capper due to possessing no short game at all and no putting skiils. Other than that exception , imo one just wont have reliable distance data with poor and likely widely inconsistent ball striking.
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Even more reason to ditch clubs at the top of the bag. For me I just have a fairway wood and I only use it for shots over 200 yards off the fairway. I have 1 hybrid that I use for shots that are too long for my 4 iron off any other lie and for punching out of trouble. It's also my fairway finder on tight par 4's. No need to make it complicated with yardages with these clubs since they are the very most inconsistent clubs in the bag on a full swing for every golfer. Just pick a trusty club give it a job and forget yardage.

At the bottom of the bag a 20 yard gap between the 8 and 7 is trouble and I doubt that is due to poor ball striking. That's where I would focus attention if I am thinking new equipment.

I also think golfers can have shot making gaps in their bag that might not show up on yardage profiles like this. Do you have a club you know for sure you can punch out of the woods with? Do you have a go to for bump and run chips? Do you have a club for long pitches? These are all places where you might have a shot making gap. Those gaps can hurt a golfer just as much as a yardage gap IMO.
 
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Certainly appreciate the different responses. I am taking everyone's comments and will certainly digest and decide what to do once I get some more rounds in.

Regarding my ball striking, I can drive a ball pretty well, and iron approach shots are good. I do sometimes of course have duffed shots within those goods ones, but for the most part from 5-9 irons I am getting some consistency with those. My most recent few rounds I was driving/approaching really well.

My short game is not very good and I am getting some work in on that. Finding the right amount of swing to place on certain shots is where I am lacking. Some chips will go 5-10 yards and I needed to go 30-40. Finding that swing for those types of shots will get the most work from me.

Putting is not horrendous, but I am at mostly a 2 putt per hole. I do have maybe 1 time per round with a 3 putt.

Handicap has been dropping since I got back to playing earlier this summer and I do expect it will keep dropping when I put more work into my short game.

I do also suffer from upgrade-itis and love getting new equipment in play. :LOL:
 
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