How important is Descent Angle to you

[Tevenor]

So @Jman 's thread with "Fun with data" had me wondering a bit on the importance people place on the land or descent angle of the shot when selecting the right fitting clubs. Before I got fit for my T200's in November, I didn't really consider descent angle as a key fitting metric. Once I started hitting some clubs I started to recognize the impact that would have and since then, have looked at my sim session data with an approach of using stopping power as a combination of spin rate plus the impact of land angle as equally important aspects.

@obedt mentioned in that thread that 'For Titleist, bare minimum descent angle they look for with 6i (at least as of 2 years ago) is 43 degrees. ' which seems low to me but I ask you, THP community the following?

1) How important is descent angle to you?

2) If you had 2 sets of irons that you were fitting to a 6i, one that you flighted lower but had 2000 more rpm's of spin and a 7 degree lower descent angle vs one that flighted higher but had 2000 rpm less spin but 7 degree's more land angle, which would you take?

3) What do you consider an ideal land angle for say a 6i?

 

[baylrballa]

never thought about it, even during a fitting.

 

[TCB2010]

I think I need to do a fitting to know exactly where I'm at.

 

[aljaklaw]

if you really want to get into it, how many consider both descent angle and final landing spin

 

[MWard]

I'm ok with the higher descent angle if the spin is low. Likewise, I'm ok with the higher spin if the descent angle is low too

 

[JB]

I love this video of the founder of Club Champion breaking down the fitting numbers.

 

[MattyD-MPLS]

1. It plays a role depending on spin rate.
2. A shot that has 7 degrees less descent is going to skip or hop more. I am trying to fly it to a number and have very little variance if possible with carry and total yards.
3. 45* is what I was thinking

 

[M2Giles]

Its definitely apart of my consideration when looking at clubs.

 

[Tevenor]

I'm ok with the higher descent angle if the spin is low. Likewise, I'm ok with the higher spin if the descent angle is low too

That's my thought as well. One supports the other.

 

[Tevenor]

I love this video of the founder of Club Champion breaking down the fitting numbers.

Defiunitely a great video everyone should watch. Probably multiple times.

 

[Tevenor]

1. It plays a role depending on spin rate.
2. A shot that has 7 degrees less descent is going to skip or hop more. I am trying to fly it to a number and have very little variance if possible with carry and total yards.
3. 45* is what I was thinking

Good stuff Matt!

So lets play a bit of game similar to what what @Jman did in his thread on the iron choices. Take a look at these numbers from a recent sim session. This is the average across 10 shots. I have taken out SS and BS and which club it is because I am not sure it matters ( feel free to guess though )

Couple of questions for everyone to weigh in on.

Is there such a thing as too much descent angle/spin ratio that actually may negatively impact the performance of the ball on the green?
Based on the numbers below, too much of either spin or land angle?
If you saw those numbers on your fitting or someone you would fit, what if anything would you want to change?



And if you have your numbers, lets take a peek. Post them up. Interested where others are.

 

[dthrog00]

You have the talent of speed. Many do not. It's hard for someone who does not swing quickly to achieve those descent angles with a 6 iron without excessive dynamic loft / launch angle.

I think in the modern launch monitor era people tend to get hung up on numbers when the real question is, for the courses and conditions you play in are you able to get the ball to stop? If yes, you're good. If no, then the clubs/ball you're using with your current technique are not working and changes are needed to technique, the ball, or worst of all the clubs.

Dave

 

[BigMac]

I don't have access to a launch monitor or sim to play with the numbers, so I don't even think about them. And my swing on the course probably isn't consistent enough that the numbers would matter significantly anyway. With that said, if I did have easy access to a LM I'd probably be geeking out over the numbers anyway, just because I like playing with numbers and data.

 

[tahoebum]

The more I read about fittings and launch monitor numbers such as decent angle the happier I am that it all seems like a foreign language to me. Ignorance is bliss in my case.

 

[BigMac]

The more I read about fittings and launch monitor numbers such as decent angle the happier I am that it all seems like a foreign language to me. Ignorance is bliss in my case.

Judging by the fact that you're a + 'cap, the "ignorance" doesn't seem to have hurt your game much. I'd love to be that ignorant!

 

[Tevenor]

You have the talent of speed. Many do not. It's hard for someone who does not swing quickly to achieve those descent angles with a 6 iron without excessive dynamic loft / launch angle.

I think in the modern launch monitor era people tend to get hung up on numbers when the real question is, for the courses and conditions you play in are you able to get the ball to stop? If yes, you're good. If no, then the clubs/ball you're using with your current technique are not working and changes are needed to technique, the ball, or worst of all the clubs.

Dave

I agree with this sentiment for sure, Dave. Pre-jumping in with both feet into the world of data and fittings and LM's ( oh my ) , I really didn't know enough details to understand why my shots were reacting the way they were. I've always been able to hit the ball far but not necessarily hit and stay on greens. I tried all kinds of things and sometimes they would work and sometimes they wouldn't. High spinning ball? Check. Trying to hit hte ball higher? Check. Start playing cut/fades into holes? Check. Most of the time if I hit the green, it would just keep rolling.

It wasn't until this past year that I figured out why. I got triggered to get the data after I did a driver fitting and started to realize the importance of launch angle and spin on teh driver. While I was trying out my new driver, I hit a nice drive on a Par 5 and left me a 4i into the green. I hit it perfect. Baby fade, hit center of green, and it rolled off the back. That was when I said I had enough and I need to figure out why. My previous irons were Apex Pros but the shafts were the culprit. Never released and delofted the club face. Low low launch angles and coming in shallow. Not enough spin to make up for it. Not that I knew any of this at the time.

So, when I did get new irons, I focused a lot on the descent angle and spin which in turn translated into ball speed and launch angles because I wanted irons I could hit full shots in confidently.

Its also why I started this thread. Wasn't sure if others had the same experiences, how much it played a role in other peoples iron choices, and where they found that balance in their head/shaft combo that allows them to hit into greens and hold them.

 

[Tevenor]

The more I read about fittings and launch monitor numbers such as decent angle the happier I am that it all seems like a foreign language to me. Ignorance is bliss in my case.

Judging by the fact that you're a + 'cap, the "ignorance" doesn't seem to have hurt your game much. I'd love to be that ignorant!

True that! @tahoebum that's the goal right? As @dthrog00 mentioned, as long as the shot you are hitting works for you, then its good.

 

[dthrog00]

I agree with this sentiment for sure, Dave. Pre-jumping in with both feet into the world of data and fittings and LM's ( oh my ) , I really didn't know enough details to understand why my shots were reacting the way they were. I've always been able to hit the ball far but not necessarily hit and stay on greens. I tried all kinds of things and sometimes they would work and sometimes they wouldn't. High spinning ball? Check. Trying to hit hte ball higher? Check. Start playing cut/fades into holes? Check. Most of the time if I hit the green, it would just keep rolling.

It wasn't until this past year that I figured out why. I got triggered to get the data after I did a driver fitting and started to realize the importance of launch angle and spin on teh driver. While I was trying out my new driver, I hit a nice drive on a Par 5 and left me a 4i into the green. I hit it perfect. Baby fade, hit center of green, and it rolled off the back. That was when I said I had enough and I need to figure out why. My previous irons were Apex Pros but the shafts were the culprit. Never released and delofted the club face. Low low launch angles and coming in shallow. Not enough spin to make up for it. Not that I knew any of this at the time.

So, when I did get new irons, I focused a lot on the descent angle and spin which in turn translated into ball speed and launch angles because I wanted irons I could hit full shots in confidently.

Its also why I started this thread. Wasn't sure if others had the same experiences, how much it played a role in other peoples iron choices, and where they found that balance in their head/shaft combo that allows them to hit into greens and hold them.

Descent angle without question is very useful information and when iron fitting is a huge deal, especially when hitting indoors. People seem to buy based off distance, but dispersion and playability might be smarter.

Dave

 

[AnthonyC]

I recently watched a Titleist Instruction video that mentioned hitting down with a -7 launch angle will yield more distance by 10 yards. Pretty cool stuff.

 

[Tevenor]

Descent angle without question is very useful information and when iron fitting is a huge deal, especially when hitting indoors. People seem to buy based off distance, but dispersion and playability might be smarter.

Dave

Completely agree. I completely switched my concept from "what do I hit the longest" to "what do I hit with the most control". Was an epiphany moment if you will which I hope turns into better scores. the combo of spin and land angle was what clinched the deal for me.

 

[CBaker]

I’ve never thought about descent angle at all, but mine has always been high due to height and spin. For me, as long as I’m fitting to the correct spin I’m looking for, descent angle follows suit.

the lower you hit, the more you probably start looking at descent angle more in your fitting process.

 

[Tenputt]

For me, other than with wedges, where I want to see some spin, descent is a more important metric than spin. Through most of my irons, I usually see descent angles of 45 degrees or more, which gives me plenty of stopping power.

 

[WLG1952]

Never really thought about how steep the ball fell out of the air.

I was always concerned about carry yardages, since the roll after the carry was inconsistent from hole to hole, and course to course. I have very little control of the roll out. The degree of fall would further impact that roll after the carry.

Thinking about it now after this thread, I guess I was always partial to a steeper fall, and less roll out. This would make distance control for the next shot easier to plan on.

 

[Jman]

For me, other than with wedges, where I want to see some spin, descent is a more important metric than spin. Through most of my irons, I usually see descent angles of 45 degrees or more, which gives me plenty of stopping power.

Yeah. Reality is if you get the descent more than 45, you’re going to hold greens in almost all instances.

I do think too many also look at data and focus on launch angle without considering ball speed and peak which will indicate if or if not the apex goal is still being reached.

A person with a 112 MPH swing speed and ball speed in the mid 160’s allows for, and in some cases necessitates, a lower launch angle.

 

[Flipit]

Good stuff Matt!

So lets play a bit of game similar to what what @Jman did in his thread on the iron choices. Take a look at these numbers from a recent sim session. This is the average across 10 shots. I have taken out SS and BS and which club it is because I am not sure it matters ( feel free to guess though )

Couple of questions for everyone to weigh in on.

Is there such a thing as too much descent angle/spin ratio that actually may negatively impact the performance of the ball on the green?
Based on the numbers below, too much of either spin or land angle?
If you saw those numbers on your fitting or someone you would fit, what if anything would you want to change?

View attachment 8936412

And if you have your numbers, lets take a peek. Post them up. Interested where others are.

I’m no numbers expert , but that ball should have no issue holding the green. 50 deg decent sounds like a hop and stop to me.