How to understand trackman numbers after a demo?

[Daniunchained]

Hi,
yesterday in a club near me there was a demo/fitting day of Cobra. I managed to hit shots for an hour with the trackman and the guy was kind to send me all the data (even if he didn't told me much during the session, but it was free so nvm).
I've hit shots both with the cobra than with my clubs so i've some data to analyze, but i was wondering if there is some tools/guide (or someone to send them to) to understand what is wrong/good with my shots what should i try to change in my swing without having to go to a pro for lessons (i'll do it but not now).

Curious that i had almost the same swing speed (85 to 83) from the cobra driver than with my old RBZ 5 wood, and did the same carry (and much more carry than with the cobra 3w)...
Both the Speedzone driver and the 3W felt very good in my hand, but results were disappointing... Really liked the 4 hybrid and i'm going to order it tomorrow.

 

[Smiter]

Post em up. Someone will interpret them for you.

 

[Molten]

Post em up. Someone will interpret them for you.

Agreed. Sometimes you can tell what’s going on from numbers for some improvement. It is tough to diagnose the input solely based on the output sometimes though.

 

[Tenputt]

Agreed. Take a screen shot and post them here. We will help you.

 

[blueonblack]

Trackman used to have a graph/chart on their site for swing speeds and optimal numbers. I'd probably start there.
From what you describe:
1) loft is your friend, like everyone else. You are getting a fairly lofted hybrid to start. Good. No surprise to me there.
2) Modern drivers are kinda long as to shaft length and harder to hit. You hit that 5W well for a reason (see also, point #1.)

 

[Daniunchained]

Thanks guys, i'll post some screenshot and data tomorrow; i have a tournament start in a couple of hours (a pro-am actually, first time i play with a pro even if he's regular club pro that i never met), so i got to get ready

 

[blueonblack]

Driver Optimization

Here is chart of optimal numbers for driver fittings depending on club speed. There is a chart aimed toward carry distance and another for total distance.

trackman.zendesk.com

Best I could find fo free tonight on the trackman site. Good info in there.
RBZ's were solid and hot-faced. Very popular clubs for a reason. Shorter shaft length on 5W equals more control and faster resultant swing speed and better contact/impact areas on the face. Shaft must fit you well. Look up the specs of your shaft and learn why it works well for you. Tip action/kickpoint low/med/high, weight, torque, balance point. Sometimes even a grip is better than another or more comfortable.

 

[Daniunchained]

So i managed to screen shot some of the trackman data, i've only put the best shot for club of the session, to see the difference. One thing i've noticed is that both with driver and hybrid i carry a lot more when i slice it or hit it with an open face (rare miss for me, i usually miss left).. Sliced driver are longer than straight one and it's weird.
A notice, distance are in meters (add 10% for yards), but i can't find how to convert it.

First is the Cobra Speedzone Driver with helium 5F3 shaft (50 gr) regular, this shot went a bit left and higher than my usual. Left miss with the driver has been a huge problem for 3/4 years now.


Then my Taylormade RBZ 5 wood (19°), regular shaft can't find the exact specs. I pushed it right a bit (10/15 yds) in this case but usually it draws back (not in this test).


This is the Cobra 3Wood 14.5°, Shaft Helium 5F3 . It 3 shots, all 3 went straight and low, very nice feeling, but too little carry i'd say.


Finally the 4 hybrid that i ordered today, shaft Recoil 480, 21° regular. Pushed the first shots (but was the end of the session), than started to hit them easily and very similar shots both in trajectory and distance (this one is the only one about 10 yds longer than the other 5/6).



I hope i did not put too much, any input is greatly appreaciated.
Today i played well, but with rain and not much roll the average of my 5 best tee shot (always using the 5 wood) was about 194 yds (177 mt), with an high of 202 (184 mt). Adding a driver that allows me to do 20/30 yds more would be a game changer for me, because i'll be able to hit 7/8/9 irons into the greens and that's it's by far the best part of my game.

 

[DFitz364]

First and foremost, those are incredibly high smash factors. Anyone else have any explanations? Only one that seems to right is the driver. 1.6+ smash factor with any club, let alone a hybrid/3-wood?! Something seems off with these, misreads maybe? The massive disparity in SF would account for why your 5w went as far as your driver. You swung slower and had significantly higher ball speeds.

Typically I tend to hear anyone with a SF of > 1.53 with a driver is indicative of an "illegal" or non-conforming driver. This isn't exact science as it would take CT (or CoR, if it were a few years back) measurements to know, but what is more typical is a misread of the trackman itself. It is surprising to have so many high readings like that though. I am curious if anyone has any explanation to those!!

 

[etakmit]

First and foremost, those are incredibly high smash factors. Anyone else have any explanations? Only one that seems to right is the driver. 1.6+ smash factor with any club, let alone a hybrid/3-wood?! Something seems off with these, misreads maybe? The massive disparity in SF would account for why your 5w went as far as your driver. You swung slower and had significantly higher ball speeds.

Typically I tend to hear anyone with a SF of > 1.53 with a driver is indicative of an "illegal" or non-conforming driver. This isn't exact science as it would take CT (or CoR, if it were a few years back) measurements to know, but what is more typical is a misread of the trackman itself. It is surprising to have so many high readings like that though. I am curious if anyone has any explanation to those!!

maybe the smash factors are in metric

 

[blueonblack]

these machines have to be calibrated and set up properly to give proper results. I wonder sometimes about "Demo Days."
The "juiced monitor" has been lore since the inception of LM's.

In searching for that spin/launch chart last night (you're welcome) I saw all kids of instruction on how these machines have to be calibrated and set up.

Driver you are chopping down on the ball with a closed face. Only the downward strike you are imparting is causing the backspin you see, which then allows the ball to stay airborne for as long as you are seeing. This is classic over the top swing.

Lesson time. Not new driver time. Just easier to get away with over the top the more loft you use and shorter shafts are easier to recover from bad positions, thus the success with the shorter club lengths in 3w/hybrid.

 

[JMB3]

So i managed to screen shot some of the trackman data, i've only put the best shot for club of the session, to see the difference. One thing i've noticed is that both with driver and hybrid i carry a lot more when i slice it or hit it with an open face (rare miss for me, i usually miss left).. Sliced driver are longer than straight one and it's weird.
A notice, distance are in meters (add 10% for yards), but i can't find how to convert it.

First is the Cobra Speedzone Driver with helium 5F3 shaft (50 gr) regular, this shot went a bit left and higher than my usual. Left miss with the driver has been a huge problem for 3/4 years now.
View attachment 8964642

Then my Taylormade RBZ 5 wood (19°), regular shaft can't find the exact specs. I pushed it right a bit (10/15 yds) in this case but usually it draws back (not in this test).
View attachment 8964643

This is the Cobra 3Wood 14.5°, Shaft Helium 5F3 . It 3 shots, all 3 went straight and low, very nice feeling, but too little carry i'd say.
View attachment 8964645

Finally the 4 hybrid that i ordered today, shaft Recoil 480, 21° regular. Pushed the first shots (but was the end of the session), than started to hit them easily and very similar shots both in trajectory and distance (this one is the only one about 10 yds longer than the other 5/6).

View attachment 8964648

I hope i did not put too much, any input is greatly appreaciated.
Today i played well, but with rain and not much roll the average of my 5 best tee shot (always using the 5 wood) was about 194 yds (177 mt), with an high of 202 (184 mt). Adding a driver that allows me to do 20/30 yds more would be a game changer for me, because i'll be able to hit 7/8/9 irons into the greens and that's it's by far the best part of my game.

That big negative face-to-path with driver will definitely lead to left misses—know from experience. Spin is far too high for driver. Negative attack won’t help that. So not maximizing SS there.

 

[-CRW-]

Driver you are chopping down on the ball with a closed face. Only the downward strike you are imparting is causing the backspin you see, which then allows the ball to stay airborne for as long as you are seeing. This is classic over the top swing.

Lesson time. Not new driver time. Just easier to get away with over the top the more loft you use and shorter shafts are easier to recover from bad positions, thus the success with the shorter club lengths in 3w/hybrid.

I agree. Clubs aren’t going to do much to mask that swing flaw.

 

[Daniunchained]

First and foremost, those are incredibly high smash factors. Anyone else have any explanations? Only one that seems to right is the driver. 1.6+ smash factor with any club, let alone a hybrid/3-wood?! Something seems off with these, misreads maybe? The massive disparity in SF would account for why your 5w went as far as your driver. You swung slower and had significantly higher ball speeds.

Typically I tend to hear anyone with a SF of > 1.53 with a driver is indicative of an "illegal" or non-conforming driver. This isn't exact science as it would take CT (or CoR, if it were a few years back) measurements to know, but what is more typical is a misread of the trackman itself. It is surprising to have so many high readings like that though. I am curious if anyone has any explanation to those!!

Yes i'd say something is off with the calibration. I don't know about smash factor values, but i know how much i hit may 7 and 9 irons on a perfect shot, and when i hit those on the trackman i was making about 10% more distance that i usually do on the course (and with range balls seems a bit off).

these machines have to be calibrated and set up properly to give proper results. I wonder sometimes about "Demo Days."
The "juiced monitor" has been lore since the inception of LM's.

In searching for that spin/launch chart last night (you're welcome) I saw all kids of instruction on how these machines have to be calibrated and set up.

Driver you are chopping down on the ball with a closed face. Only the downward strike you are imparting is causing the backspin you see, which then allows the ball to stay airborne for as long as you are seeing. This is classic over the top swing.

Lesson time. Not new driver time. Just easier to get away with over the top the more loft you use and shorter shafts are easier to recover from bad positions, thus the success with the shorter club lengths in 3w/hybrid.

Wow, can't thank you enough! What you write and say it's exactly how i feel and felt in the last years with the driver compared to hitting woods or hybrids; i did multiple lessons with different pros but never got a clean explanation that stayed with me!

I often heard of "over the top" but never quiet realized that was my problem. This year (after a 8 months break) i tried to focus more on coming from the inside on the downswing, trying to use more the legs (sort of a squat feeling while starting the downswing)... especially with the driver and when i managed to do it without sliding with the shoulder or moving the hands too fast it gave me great results.... Problem is when i start to get a bit tired i get totally out of sync and make disasters

Surely i need some lessons and to practice more, but it's hard to do it without having a driver... Maybe i'll search for a cheap used one to use just for that. Problem with pro's is that here they often try to change you too much, causing confusion and generating other problems, that's why this year i tried to understand my swing by myself, making small changes and many tests... Now i think i've a better understanding of how my body moves and how my swing react, and overall i've been playing my best golf ever (driving excluded).

 

[blueonblack]

Yes i'd say something is off with the calibration. I don't know about smash factor values, but i know how much i hit may 7 and 9 irons on a perfect shot, and when i hit those on the trackman i was making about 10% more distance that i usually do on the course (and with range balls seems a bit off).



Wow, can't thank you enough! What you write and say it's exactly how i feel and felt in the last years with the driver compared to hitting woods or hybrids; i did multiple lessons with different pros but never got a clean explanation that stayed with me!

I often heard of "over the top" but never quiet realized that was my problem. This year (after a 8 months break) i tried to focus more on coming from the inside on the downswing, trying to use more the legs (sort of a squat feeling while starting the downswing)... especially with the driver and when i managed to do it without sliding with the shoulder or moving the hands too fast it gave me great results.... Problem is when i start to get a bit tired i get totally out of sync and make disasters

Surely i need some lessons and to practice more, but it's hard to do it without having a driver... Maybe i'll search for a cheap used one to use just for that. Problem with pro's is that here they often try to change you too much, causing confusion and generating other problems, that's why this year i tried to understand my swing by myself, making small changes and many tests... Now i think i've a better understanding of how my body moves and how my swing react, and overall i've been playing my best golf ever (driving excluded).

The interesting thing about trackman is that is takes a "photo" of the ball essentially after impact. The algorythms do the math back to the ball's starting point. So if they are out of calibration at all? Useless. I sometimes wonder about light relfactions and such with them with the photo process. I do like the club path and face angle data a LOT as that says a lot about the swing.

Truthfully, our swings are not all that consistent, so RPM backspin numbers on course will be all over the map anyway just due to our own contact inconsistencies. We're not swing robots. Getting loft for enough carry is big, and then mitigating spin if there is too much from there with shaft.
Downward attack angle is going to benefit from more loft if you do get a driver. The spin will still be out of control with your present swing, but it will have enough loft to keep it airborne a little longer anyway. Pay attention to shaft LENGTH, as you swing your 5W's shorter length well for a reason. I've always found the old 45" standard to be plenty for a driver. Shorter if it feels better.

Matthew Wolf's hands are so far outside, he will never go too far inside and get "stuck" in that over the top position.

 

[Daniunchained]

Actually that's a recurring thing; now that i think about it i was advised to use a 12° driver a few years ago after a flightscope session... Inesis has a cheap 12° driver, have to see the lenght also, might be a bit shorter.. I've to see if i can try it out or return it if i don't like it (going there anyway tomorrow, so i'll ask).

The light could be an issue also, after months of sun when i did my session was cloudy, rained a bit earlier and humidity condition were much much different from the other days so maybe that impacted the calibration.

 

[blueonblack]

Midwest Golfing Magazine Fall 2020

xdigital.spiweb.com

Page 48 if that link doesn't take you there directly.
Picked up a free print edition of that today at the local Golf Galaxy. Free. Might be the best thing there they had to offer.

 

[Summit]

The higher smash factors are due to the wrong ball setting being used when on Normalize. Most of the other ball flight numbers will be skewed to some extent because of that issue. Was the TrackMan aimed correctly as well? If not, your path/face numbers could be off as well. I can help you read the numbers if you need help. Just let me know, or tag me with specific questions.

 

[Daniunchained]

Thanks @Summit , i think the trackman was aimed correctly, but the area of the range was not very good, ground was damaged and was hard to find a nice lie (when not hitting of a tee). He told me i can move around in the area a few feet without having issues, but i mostly stayed in the same place. Thanks for the help, i think i'm going to see a pro soon for some lessons.

 

[Summit]

Thanks @Summit , i think the trackman was aimed correctly, but the area of the range was not very good, ground was damaged and was hard to find a nice lie (when not hitting of a tee). He told me i can move around in the area a few feet without having issues, but i mostly stayed in the same place. Thanks for the help, i think i'm going to see a pro soon for some lessons.

Even when moving around, we still need it to be aimed at something and you need to be set up towards that something. Mainly what I see from those numbers is the ball selection was not correct so the rest of the numbers are off.